<p>I took a tour of Harvard about a month ago, and I still remember how much they tried to downplay the idea that Harvard cares about its grad students more than its undergrads. I understand that Harvard is well... Harvard so people talk and those kind of 'rumors' are likely to be more rampant. From what I've heard from friends who are in the music department, undergraduates receive little attention. Does Harvard not care about its undergrads?</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Does Harvard not care about its undergrads?<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>That depends on what you mean by "Harvard."</p>
<p>At Harvard University:
Harvard Law School focuses most of its attention on the law students.
Harvard Medical School focuses most of its attention on the medical students.
Harvard Business School focuses most of its attention on the business students.
and
Harvard College focuses most of its attention on the undergraduates.</p>
<p>^ Great, how much attention does Harvard University give Harvard College?</p>
<p>^Harvard College is very well-funded if that's what you mean. It is loaded with very talented and highly-regarded professors. It offers an incredibly rich variety of courses and concentrations. It actively searches for and attracts many of the top high school students every year. Physically it is located at the very heart of the university.</p>
<p>I don't know where idea comes from that undergraduates get short shrift. If you are hoping that the president will bake you a plate of warm cookies or that the dean will tuck you in each night, well that's not the sort of attention that Harvard pays to any of its students, be they grad or undergrad.</p>
<p>Does any school give anyone that kind of attention?</p>
<p>For milk & cookies on a regular basis, I suggest you look into Mt. Holyoke, where the tradition is well entrenched.</p>
<p>I don't think that Harvard students are, in general, people that want to be coddled.</p>
<p>At Davidson, it's the townsfolk who bring you the milk and cookies. The college just does your laundry and wraps it up with brown paper and string. No, I'm not kidding.</p>
<p>It always amuses me when people talk about schools caring more for their graduate students than for their undergrads.</p>
<p>When I visited UCSF for an interview, the faculty and students there made a big deal of the fact that the school has no undergrads -- so there would be no undergrads to distract the attention of the faculty from the grad students.</p>
<p>The grass is always greener, people.</p>
<p>It shouldn't amuse you much, since students are choosing a school for undergraduate study OR graduate study, not both simultaneously.</p>
<p>The point I was trying to make is that people in each group are always convinced that more attention is being paid to the other group.</p>
<p>I think the reality is that there's enough attention to go around, and how much attention you get as an undergraduate depends on who you are rather than whether you're an undergrad or grad student.</p>
<p>This is a charge that has seemingly been leveled against Harvard from time immemorial. It's also one that tends to get debated ad nauseum on these boards. In my experience, it's an unfounded charge, and I've always written it off to adherents of competitor schools (cough)Princeton,Yale(cough) trying to convince themselves and others that their school is better.</p>
<p>That said, there are many excellent schools out there, and many students who would give anything for an undergrad seat at Harvard. So I'd advise anyone for whom this is really an issue to find one of these other excellent schools and leave the seats at Harvard to those for whom it is not an issue.</p>
<p>This "charge" is frequently levelled by those for whom the issue became significant only after Harvard found their applications lacking in some way.</p>
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The point I was trying to make is that people in each group are always convinced that more attention is being paid to the other group.
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This "charge" is frequently levelled by those for whom the issue became significant only after Harvard found their applications lacking in some way.
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<p>What I would say to this is that I happen to know quite a few Harvard graduate students who believe that the administration seems to care more about them than it cares about the undergrads. In fact, I know quite a few Harvard grad students who had themselves completed their undergrad at Harvard who believe that the administration seems to be far more attentive to them now that they are grad students.</p>
<p>cosar - it seems to me that those people who don't care about their actual college experience and are attracted to Harvard/Yale just because they are part of the ivy league and are the paramounts of American undergraduate education have not done a thorough college search and/or have not clearly identified their interests.</p>
<p>With music composition - individual attention from professors is far more helpful than sitting in a lecture hall of 20+ students. Most all comp majors would agree. I don't care about the administration holding my hand, I'm saying that I want access to people who would play my stuff - friends, or the schools ensembles. </p>
<p>Although I write music for myself, I also write it so I and anyone else who wants to hear it in more than a MIDI realization. I'm well aware that the Harvard admin doesn't 'screw' its students.</p>
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it seems to me that those people who don't care about their actual college experience and are attracted to Harvard/Yale just because they are part of the ivy league and are the paramounts of American undergraduate education have not done a thorough college search and/or have not clearly identified their interests.
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<p>You should go read other threads and listen to actual Harvard students before you make ignorant and insulting assumptions. Harvard may not be for you, which is fine, but it provides a very rich experience for many of its undergraduates. I, for one, conducted a VERY thorough college search, more of which you can find out about on the archives of these boards. I made my college decision very carefully and don't regret my choice at all because of all the opportunities and experiences that Harvard has offered me that have been extremely fulfilling and unique.</p>
<p>Quotes from just two other threads, written by myself and others, about the Harvard undergraduate experience: </p>
<p>From "Do Harvard Kids Care about Intellectualism":
...a huge part of the magic of my experience so far has happened inside the classroom with amazing, world-renowned professors that have learned my name and pushed me to change the way I think and what I value. There are great classroom experiences at many schools, but the classroom also contributes to the uniqueness of the Harvard experience. As was said earlier, there are many Harvards, which is beautifully true and what happens inside the classroom is one facet of what makes it so unique, and in my case, so wonderful.</p>
<p>From "Is Harvard the Real Deal":
I just finished my freshman year and I have two friends who are interested in science that are working in Doug Melton, a very well-known biology professor's lab this summer doing research with him. In a lecture class of 60 students last semester, the professor, a well-known historian and best-selling author learned my name and the names of other friends I had in the class after going to shake his hand after class one day. Another class I took last semester was composed of 10 people and led by novelist Jamaica Kincaid.</p>
<p>Every professor at Harvard holds office hours. They won't come to your room and knock on your door, but can always go knock on theirs. Sure, some professors aren't the most personable, but plenty of professors use office hours as an opportunity to get to know their students on a personal level.</p>
<p>If your concern is getting to know your professors, doing research, or having small classes, you can find that at Harvard. You just have to put in the work to do it yourself. It won't come to you like it would at a LAC like Amherst.</p>
<p>And:</p>
<p>Echoing Lindseylujh, my son, who is also about to start his second year and whose interests include India and economics, had no problem at all setting up a meeting toward the end of last year with Harvard Prof (and Nobel Prize winner) Amartya Sen, who gave him (among other things) some valuable suggestions for summer reading. And he's now talking with another professor - a recent MacArthur "genius" grant winner - about doing research with him during the coming year.</p>
<p>The opportunities to engage with professors outside the classroom are definitely there. It just takes a little gumption.</p>
<p>If you read the first part of my comment - which indicates that I'm talking about people who can only say they chose to go there because well... it's Harvard (I know people like that). I AM NOT talking about people that can lecture friends on their reasons to go.</p>
<p>If you float through undergrad without applying yourself or seeking out the best professors, then any school won't be "giving you enough attention." This sentiment is really popular among people who don't go to HYP schools like to believe it because it is very sophisticated and makes them feel good about themselves. But it's not really true. What is true is that there are many, many liberal arts schools with strong induvidual departments where students can get an unparalleled education if they seek it out. People should feel good about that rather than hate on Harvard, because it's unwarranted.</p>
<p>Please, guys. Don't inject any provokative statements here. This discussion will be as valuable as we make it.</p>
<p>All other schools, perforce, define themselves vis a vis Harvard. You notice the rationalization isn't "Who Needs Holy Cross/Haverford/UC Davis/Yale/Lewis & Clark etc.?"</p>