Harvard Undergrad

<p>A common criticism of Harvard College is that the undergrads receive less attention than at other colleges (i.e. Stanford, Princeton, Yale, etc.). Is this criticism true or is it more of a myth?</p>

<p>"less attention"... well of course any school that has graduate students is going to have the "attention" divided between them. What it boils down to is are the undergraduates getting ENOUGH attention. At harvard, I think most people would say yes.</p>

<p>How does that attention compare to the attention at other schools?</p>

<p>I'd say littttttle bit less than yale, p'ton, and dartmouth, but same or more concentration than stanford and other ivies.</p>

<p>A typical rationalization. When advocates for another school must clearly - and frustratingly -yield to Harvard in most quantifable respects, they tend to zero in on some decidedly unquantifiable point - insisting, for example, that because Harvard University has many large, prestigious graduate and professional schools, that Harvard College obviously "does not care" about undergraduates!</p>

<p>So then how do you account for what Harvard President Lawrence Summers said?</p>

<p>"Here is my favorite (indirect) quote, reported to Bradley by a student who met with Summers during office hours. The student told Summers "he was disappointed by how little contact he'd had with most of his professors." In reply, Summers "basically said that at Harvard, we choose to go only for the best scholars, and that if you wanted somewhere that focused on undergraduate teaching, you should go to a place like Amherst or Swarthmore." "</p>

<p><a href="http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2004/12/16/harvard_tell_all_booktells_little/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2004/12/16/harvard_tell_all_booktells_little/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Kimfuge, why do you say "less than yale, p'ton, and dartmouth, but same or more concentration than stanford and other ivies"? </p>

<p>I'm not trying to attack you; I'm just curious what you based your assessment off of. Anyone else have evidence to support/refute kimfuge's opinion?</p>

<p>yeah... i'd say that's the biggest criticism of harvard, and everything i've heard, especially the president saying that it was a problem, (there's your quantative proof) confirms that. it works fine for students who are ready and willing to fend for themselves and fight for attention, and can do so without losing their integrity.</p>

<p>personally, i like being the center of attention, so harvard isn't for me. </p>

<p>and chris - while attention is divided, it can be more evenly or towards the other side of the spectrum. why settle for being second?</p>

<p>What about research opportunities for undergrads? Also, are all Harvard classes taught by professors?</p>

<p>in response to your second question, tiro: no. However, there is (at least) one Ivy which requires that all professors teach at least one undergrad class...I think it's Yale. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.</p>

<p>The previous poster is incorrect in every respect. I challenge him to provide supporting links for his absurd statements.</p>

<p>err, I'm a she, not a he. My sibling goes to Harvard and takes several classes that are not taught chiefly by professors. And as for my second statement, I pinky promise that I read it in a brochure or somewhere. Again, it might not be for Yale, which is what I said in my first post. I can't remember, but I will try to locate the information...</p>

<p>edit: grr, I can't find it right now. Until then, I'll hold that statement.</p>

<p>"The previous poster is incorrect in every respect. I challenge him to provide supporting links for his absurd statements" <a href="Byerly">b</a>**.</p>

<p>Why does everything with you have to be some sort of challenge? Can't you just ask for supporting links nicely? You just so arrogant when you say things like that. If you're seeking some form of respect, you'll get a lot more of it if you say something like, "Hey asterstar. I don't believe what you said is correct. Where are you getting your information?" Voila. Clear, concise, and exactly what you intended to say. Just a suggestion... ;)</p>

<p>For clarification, I seem to remember that all Harvard professors must teach undergrads. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that all classes are taught by professors (it could be though). Anyone know the correct answer for both those statements?</p>

<p>I personally don't see what the big deal is. Who cares if a TA teaches the class? They almost have their dr. in the subject anyway.</p>

<p>well, they're certainly qualified to teach the course. The question is whether they make for the most interesting instructors...sometimes professors, esp. at Harvard, have unique and high-profile backgrounds.</p>

<p>harvard DOES focus on undergradate education MUCH LESS THAN Yale does</p>

<p>The ironic thing about having TA's teach the class is that often times you end up learning far more in such a situation than if the prof is teaching the class. Let's face it. A lot of profs, whether at Harvard or at other major research universities, are bad teachers. A lot of profs don't know how to communicate, they don't know how to express ideas to undergrads, and many of them don't want to know how to do these things, because they see it as irrelevant to what they really want to do (which is their research). Even worse, some profs clearly don't want to be teaching undergrads and when they're forced to do so, they take it out on the students. </p>

<p>I think the real issue is not whether profs are teaching the class, but whether good teachers, regardless of who they might be, are teaching the class. I would rather have a no-name TA who is an inspiring teacher and who clearly expresses his ideas and truly inspires me to learn the material rather than a prof who is world-famous, but whose lectures are yawnfests and from whom I learn nothing more than I could have if I had simply read the book. </p>

<p>For teaching to be useful it has to have value-add, in the sense that you should learn more from a 1-hour lecture than you would have if you had just spent that hour reading the book. And the fact is, there are lots of profs, not just at Harvard, but at other schools too, that don't provide any teaching value-add.</p>

<p>good point!</p>

<p>It's called "Harvard College."</p>

<p>Yup.</p>

<p>Been "focussing on undergrad education" since the 1630's, and doing it still. Most people think is does a pretty fair job of it, including the nation's top students. </p>

<p>Fact is, students admitted to both Harvard and Yale seem to agree on this point, since 4 out of 5 of them choose Harvard and say "no thank you" to Yale.</p>