<p>There is room for all sorts of music and degrees of sophistication about music at Lawrence. There are even students who would say that they aren’t very interested in music.</p>
<p>Well, Niceday, LU certainly doesn’t have the worst weather of the schools your son in visiting!</p>
<p>Some say the conservatory students (aka “Connies”) are isolated from the remainder of the school, but my D doesn’t get that at all. There is a dorm next to the conservatory so many of the Connies choose to go there for convenience, and that is the only “segregation” my D sees (she doesn’t live in that dorm). She is a Connie, but she’s involved in many activities that don’t involve music. </p>
<p>There are many concerts, plays, and jazz nights that are attended by musicians and non-musicians alike.</p>
<p>Your son’s eclectic musical tastes put him smack dab in the middle of normal at Lawrence! All of those things sound like something my D would listen to (what Monty Python songs, I’m curious? Dennis Moore? Lumberjack?)! Actually students’ tastes run the gamut, and basically anything and everything goes. Good luck to your son on his search, and if you’d like me to weigh in on anything else, please ask!</p>
<p>Not the worst weather is good, I guess. 
</p>
<p>His cell ringtone is Always Look on the Bright Side of Life.</p>
<p>niceday: Funny, we’re on the same page. Texan son (I’m a Yankee come-here), interested in physics, and looking at same schools in the upper-midwest–Carleton, St. Olaf, Lawrence (plus Grinnell, Macalester, Beloit and, a little farther over, Denison). Also, like you all, considering Rhodes. These last two MIGHT be too preppy for him, hard to tell when you visit in the summer. It may seem odd that there are no northeastern or western schools on our list but that’s how it came out (well, I did the research, so I know why). In any case, S visited all of these, except Denison, with his dad and liked them all, though Grinnell and Lawrence were on top. S THINKS he wants to be somewhere with more pronounced seasons (hah! winter most of the time instead of summer) and counts Chicago as his favorite city (not that he’d be that close but I guess it seems like it to him). On visiting day at Lawrence, one of the profs told my son to find her that first winter if he ended up coming there and give her a report on how he was faring!</p>
<p>Music–specifically percussion (and especially mallet percussion)–is one of our other considerations. Grinnell has unusually good ensemble options for percussionists and a new percussion instructor, formerly in grad school with S’s current music teacher who gives him a big thumbs up. Lawrence obviously has great music but again the question of access if you’re not in the con, though definitely better than Oberlin in that regard, or so I’ve heard.</p>
<p>I know I’ve seen posts on St. Olaf vs. Carleton before–of the never-the-twain-shall-meet variety. Would be interested in anyone’s take on that. S really liked St. Olaf (and it certainly has great music), but he’s totally non-religious and hyper-liberal, yet a bit of a straight arrow who wouldn’t mind being in the rare college environment that officially prohibits drinking on campus.</p>
<p>Thanks all!</p>
<p>What about Computer Science? I know it’s not the best school, but I’m not looking for that…</p>
<p>Onlyone and Niceday. Those are all good schools. I don’t think you can really go wrong with any of them. While some like LU and St. Olaf do have more expansive music programs, all are quite good academically. IMHO Carleton, Grinnell and Mac are probably at the top of the heap academically with the others quite close behind. It will just be the intangible matter of “fit”.</p>
<p>My older daughter applied to a number of them. She ran it down to the last minute before deciding which to attend this year. Totally subjective decision as far as I could tell. All were good schools and she would do fine at any of them. She went for a school that met all of her criteria: small, far away and expensive. She had a lot of her classmates go to St. Olaf this year (we live in the Twin Cities and something like 14 kids from her class chose St. Olaf). Some are musicians and some are not. Some are conservative and some are not. While St. Olaf is a bit less quirky than Carleton, I know a fair number of students and grads and it’s a big tent. Very good school with top notch facilities in a nice small college town that is reasonably close to the Metro.</p>
<p>My wife and I both went to Lawrence so my daughter declined to consider it just on principle. We certainly have no regrets about attending and neither of us was a musician (she is a physician and I’m an attorney). Our younger daughter, who is a musician, will likely consider it. My cousin’s son (from Hawaii) is junior at Lawrence this year and is having a fine time (not a musician). Another cousin’s daughter (also from Hawaii) attended Carleton a couple years ago and loved it. She turned down a number of Ivies to attend there. We know Carleton pretty well and it is a great school. Couldn’t convince our older daughter to attend it either as it was too close to home. We know a number of co-workers whose children attended Grinnell and they can’t say enough good things about it. We thought it was a great school when we visited - very similar in personality to Carleton. One of few LACs of its caliber to provide merit money.</p>
<p>We looked at a bunch of LACs in the upper Midwest and the Northeast and I’d be happy to answer any questions you have if I can.</p>
<p>I’m from Hawaii as well and the seasons up here are perfectly manageable. Just dress right and learn winter sports. Lawrence’s winter is a bit less harsh than those in Minnesota, but it’s a real winter nonetheless.</p>
<p>Pohaku, thanks so much. What you’ve written is very affirming. And familiar: like your older daughter, my son is going for “small, far away and expensive”! I feel fairly confident that the “far away” isn’t about getting away from us, his parents, but about experiencing a very different part of the country . . .</p>
<p>I think you are absolutely correct about which of those LACs are at the top in terms of reputation. Carleton definitely knows it and that was actually sort of off-putting to both my son and his dad at the info session, at which the speaker seemed more intent on scaring away applicants than encouraging them, perhaps for good reason. It wasn’t personal, since the presenter knew nothing about the individual kids at the session, just not very friendly, though my son and husband didn’t make too big a deal of it. Still, every other place was much more welcoming, with two schools (St. Olaf and Beloit) even offering one-on-one meetings with admissions even though my son was just a rising junior. That kind of freaked me out–he’s not ready for that yet, I thought–but in both cases, my son thought the conversations went swimmingly (though he may not be not the best judge of that).</p>
<p>As I said, Grinnell really popped for my son so we’ll try to send him back in fall of senior year to reinforce with them his great interest, since the school will be reach-y (that would also of course be true for Carleton and Mac, but they are actually much lower on his list). He’s in a nationally top-ranked magnet school with a bunch of “genius kids” (my term not his) where a 3.9 weighted GPA as of the end of sophomore year (3.6ish UW) lands you at the 50th percentile in class rank (hopefully the LAC’s take the school and curriculum into account). Alas, he’s also not a standout on standardized tests. Otherwise, he’s got a lot going for him and I <em>think</em> he’d have no problem with any of the other schools. We’d certainly send him back in spring to schools from which he gets acceptances to get a better feel in making a decision, especially if he doesn’t get into whichever school he favors at that time. Fortunately, he and we think he’d be happy at any of them.</p>
<p>Onlyone, </p>
<p>My older daughter was not a standout on the standardized tests either. Middle of the pack for the better schools on her list. Her grades were very good and she took lots of AP courses. The schools know about the high school curriculums and do take that into account. Her ECs were a bit atypical. She wasn’t much for school social activities, but was heavily involved in outside theatre and attended a circus school here in the Cities where she did aerial performance. I tried to lower expectations for her as it seems to be a roll of the dice for acceptance to the highly selective LACs. I figure their applicant pool is, for the most part, all well qualified, and decision making may actually come down to idiosyncratic issues such as whether they need another oboe player in the coming year or not. I think we all know kids who did not get accepted to particular schools for no apparent good reason, but were accepted to other schools of equivalent or better reputation. Go figure. I told her not to take it personally. She ended up applying to 9 schools and getting accepted at 7. We visited two of them only after she had been accepted and she ended up attending the last one she visited - Oberlin. Not the highest “ranked” of the schools to which she was accepted, but the one with which she felt the most comfortable. Works for us (aside from the 13 hour drive).</p>
<p>It’s been a long strange trip. Hopefully it will be easier with the next kid.</p>
<p>My son is also looking at the midwestern group (St Olaf, Lawrence, Beloit, Macalester, Grinnell), visited all but Lawrence and like them. We found that Carleton was a bit frosty and refused to interview because it was “reading week”, which was his school vacation week…</p>
<p>onlyone: “I know I’ve seen posts on St. Olaf vs. Carleton before–of the never-the-twain-shall-meet variety. Would be interested in anyone’s take on that. S really liked St. Olaf (and it certainly has great music), but he’s totally non-religious and hyper-liberal, yet a bit of a straight arrow who wouldn’t mind being in the rare college environment that officially prohibits drinking on campus.”</p>
<p>My son is quite similar to that description. I also have only one doubt about St Olaf, whether it is politically open-minded. Their website says so, and I don’t think they have any reason to mislead prospective students. But still I wonder if their students might be “righteous”? Their website is extremely informative though. (Looks like Lawrence could use a staff person to update their website a bit, as far as content.) </p>
<p>I wish we had known about Lawrence when the midwest trip was arranged, because it Would have been on the list. Is their chemistry department as great as physics? My son is interested in a chemistry/theater tech combination. ***Do they have lots to do in terms of speakers, movies, activities, for those long winters? (I am from NH so I know about those.)</p>
<p>In the end, how do you pick, when they all seem so great (besides finances)?</p>
<p>While St. Olaf is not quite as “liberal” as Carleton, Grinnell or Oberlin, it is not overwhelmingly conservative either. I know a number of my daughter’s classmates who attend there and they run the gamut from very liberal to conservative. While it is a Lutheran college, it is not a “bible college” like Bethel or even Wheaton, which are far more conservative. We have a mixed political heritage here in Minnesota. Not infrequently elect Republican governors and yet tend to vote for Democratic presidential candidates. </p>
<p>I know it sounds trite, but unless you can reject a school because it doesn’t meet some important objective criterion (in my daughter’s case one of the schools she was interested in turned out not to have a theater major - they had a minor in theater, but not a major - strange for a school that is generally ranked as a top 10 LAC), then it becomes a matter of intangibles and vibe. In my daughter’s case, she chose the last one she visited, so “last impressions” may also be a factor.</p>
<p>1Bie792 - Your post invites a shameless plug for my daughter’s school - Lawrence is all the things you describe as important to your son! The student body in general is very liberal and areligious, and though there is an active Republican Club, they are in the vast minority - yet D tells me diversity of opinions is respected and respectful debate encouraged. Very religious students (of any religion) do not seem comfortable there as there is little religious activity - just being honest.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about the various sciences at LU, but theatre is huge. Also, LU does get musicians on campus through their concert series - also comedians and speakers. A good deal of the entertainment comes from the students themselves, whether band, orchestra choir or world music concerts, theatre productions or jazz night.</p>
<p>Also, the Fox Valley Performing Arts Center offers students $20 tickets to see Broadway touring shows like Cats, Wicked, etc. Then there’s the gorgeous Fox Valley Mall, which provides much of D’s entertainment, and is certain to relieve her of much of her summer earnings. </p>
<p>The campus is beautiful and easy to navigate. The brand new student center is exquisite, and houses a wonderful new food service. The city of Appleton is cute with lots of artsy shops, coffeehouses, organic stores, and good restaurants. It is easy to take a road trip with the Greyhound station virtually on campus, through downtown Milwaukee,and the last stop downtown Chicago.</p>
<p>Good luck with your ongoing search!</p>
<p>With only 1,400 students total, and a chunk of them studying abroad at any given time, I’m wondering about Lawrence’s small size. That intimacy might be great for a freshman, with good opportunities to become involved and be noticed. But, I wonder whether upperclassmen feel that the school is too small. Anyone have thoughts on that?</p>
<p>Depends on your child’s preferences. Some kids want a large school. Others don’t. My oldest daughter wanted a smaller school and only really looked at those. The LAC she ultimately chose has 2800 students and is larger than most of the schools to which she applied. She has friends who only applied to larger universities - wouldn’t consider a smaller LAC – and it wasn’t an issue of academics (most seem to have picked Northwestern, U of M Honors Program or UW Madison). Many LACs are about this size, some even smaller. My wife and I were very comfortable attending Lawrence. You do make friends among both lower and upper class students, so your social group isn’t limited to just your own class. Some of my best friends at Lawrence were in other class years. When I attend reunions, I still find it amazing how many other people in my own class I never really knew or didn’t know well. Makes for interesting conversations now.</p>
<p>Thanks, Pohaku, that helps. Our S’s list is exclusively small schools. But, all the others are in the 2,000 to 3,500 range, so Lawrence is a bit of an outlier with only 1,400. </p>
<p>Were you in the Greek system at Lawrence? Are the frats much of a factor in the school’s social life?</p>
<p>When we attended (quite some time ago) the frats were a factor, but didn’t control social life at LU. They did sponsor weekend events and parties, but everyone attended. While they were a substantial source of social events (since the frats have their own houses), they certainly were not the only source of social activities. I lived in one of the frat houses as an independent (not a member) for a year when the school had housing issues that year. I had friends at several fraternities. The fraternities were not elitist organizations - it was all pretty low key. I believe there are currently 5 fraternities and 3 sororities and less than 30% of students are members. If you are concerned about social life revolving solely around the Greek system, I doubt you have anything to worry about. It was pretty low key then, and I doubt it is any stronger now. Current reviews on the web indicate that the situation is about the same as when we attended.</p>
<p>Can anyone compare overall experience of Lawrence vs Ripon for us? I realize that Ripon has easier admissions. We’re interested in both schools. Thank you.</p>
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<p>My daughter is now a jr at LU and still loves it as much as when she was a fr. She actually has been getting much more involved as the goes up in the yrs. she is getting busier. So LU is getting busier (bigger?) - she is teaching , doing internships, joined a sor. and the like - rather than more boring and smaller. There has been no ‘been there; done that’ for her from fr –> jr so far.</p>
<p>We cannot compare Ripon with LU since we have not gone to Ripon.</p>
<p>I don’t think my son did, felt it was too small. He graduated two years ago and went on to a very large graduate school to have that experience. He was very involved with school life and enjoyed his time at Lawrence so much. In a little while I will relate how the job hunt goes. So far, so good. His friends all went on to very large schools but they stay in touch and are contributors to the LU Alumni fund. Once a Lawrentian, always a Lawrentian. To be honest, knowing what I know now, I wish I had gone there instead of USC.</p>
<p>Ripon is substantially smaller than LU. @ 1,000 vs 1,500 students. It is located in a much smaller town - 6,828 vs 70,087 (although the Appleton metro area is larger still when you add Neenah, Menasha, Kaukauna, etc.) Endowment is also smaller -@ $46M vs $168M.</p>
<p>My personal experience is now out of date, but based on current admission statistics, my impression is that LU is a tier above Ripon academically. It also offers the benefits of the conservatory, if that is important to you.</p>