<p>To ALL it may concern, and that might help me out:</p>
<p>First thank you in advance for any and all help you give. I truly appreciate it.</p>
<p>I was inspired by my son</p>
<p>I was inspired by my son’s thoughts to write this, and hope for some help and direction.</p>
<p>I currently have a student at Stevens Institute of Technology studying Biomedical Engineering. He is in his 3rd of 5 years and is involved in a co-op program; He works, as of now, at an engineering firm, Datascope Corp., and will continue to until the end of this summer. Yet this is where the surety of his situation ends and the confusion and uncertainly begin.</p>
<p>He tells me that “Had he no desire for anything other than that which is Stevens, I might conceivably be very happy at the school and continue my education there.” That he’d go back to school in the fall and complete his last 4 semesters of college in sequence, stopping only to work over next summer at another engineering company. This, however, is not the case.</p>
<p>First let me tell you in brief a bit about why he says that he’s tired of Stevens, and then I'd like to get everyone's advice on a few things.</p>
<p>From his perspective, and from most anyone else’s for that matter, Stevens is a tech school. Not to bash it. But that’s exactly why he doesn’t like it. No, it’s not an MIT or a CAL or CAL tech, but I had heard good things about the college and recommended it before my son had even heard of the place. I was somewhat shocked and upset when he bluntly put it to me by saying “It's a really bad engineering school. It's private, its over priced, and furthermore, I feel like they tricked me by giving me a rather large grant my freshman year and then arbitrarily revoking it the following year.” I now pay, after all is said and done around $35K a year for an INSTATE school. This, in my humble opinion, is absurd. Originally I was ‘helping’ him choose between Stevens and Rutgers, and though Stevens was only SLIGHTLY more expensive, trying to be a good father, I told him that it would be alright to attend, providing he worked his butt off to get good grades. Now let me be emphatically clear here. Rutgers only cost 17K a year back when we were deciding. Stevens was only a bit more. And now I’m paying 35K a year at Stevens. Disgusting. The grant wasn’t need based or merit based either (my thinking is that it was advertising based…). </p>
<p>But I digress, the price tag is more of my own reason to somewhat resent Stevens, and I, being a man of my word, would be willing and happy to keep paying for the other two years he’d be there in an effort to make him happy. But the real reason why he says that he’s seriously considering transferring is the follow:</p>
<p>The real reasons include things like the fact that Stevens has a very poor girl to guy ratio. Albeit he does have a girlfriend right now, but still, he clearly wants a school with a more close to even distribution than the 30% - 40% women Stevens offers. Furthermore, my son is always complaining that he just doesn’t like the professors; that hardly any of them are English speaking natives and that most have such a thick accent that its almost impossible to understand them. Although he admits that the classes are small and thus provide a better student to faculty ratio, he often expresses feeling that many of the teachers seem to not give a crap about anything school related. “It’s almost like a lot of them are just there for the paycheck.” </p>
<p>The last big point he constantly makes is that Stevens is in such an urban environment. We have some property in upstate New York (although we live in northern New Jersey) and every time we go up there he tells me how nice it is in the country, to be able to see the stars and breathe fresh air. I’ve been thinking more and more about this lately I think its clear (and from what he’s told me) that he wants something much more rural. [He even says that walking around and smelling the awful smell of Hoboken (which occasionally whips by your nose) is a nightmare]. And all of this does not even mention the fact that he hates the small claustrophobic feel of the school; there is practically no campus and the size of school population is at a pitiful 1700 total undergraduates.</p>
<p>PAUSE...Thanks for bearing with me guys... :) )</p>
<p>SO on to what he’s looking for in a new school. Well,......everything Stevens isn't. Something rural, something for the same or preferably less money (but that is, more importantly, worth the money), a bigger school (10K+(?)), a real college campus, a better girl to guy ratio, better professors, and most of all a better school.</p>
<p>Stevens is only ranked 89 according to US News and World report's top engineering schools. I couldn't believe this when I recently looked this up after being repeatedly told by a number of people that it was right up there, just under MIT or the like. Hence, I'd preferably want him to go to a higher ranked school.</p>
<p>Surprisingly, at least to me, UMass Amherst is ranked much higher, at place #55, a full 34 places above Stevens. And I have to say, I like the looks of this school. Daughter attended and recently graduated from there and the same goes for my nephew; he is currently attending. I’ve visited many times and love the school. But he needs to like it. Supportively, he was mentioned when he’s visited that he loved the large campus, many people, and social atmosphere. But I need to know, how does the academics measure up? How are the classes? Do they offer a biomedical engineering major? If not, what other similar majors? Would he like it there? Will I be able to live off campus and keep a car there as soon as he starts in the fall? Will all of his credits transfer, or more importantly will most of them and could he graduate in just 2 years? IMPORTANTLY, Will he get a scholarship with the 3.3 GPA he has now, from a tough engineering school, to help offset the 29K price tag?</p>
<p>Although I realize you might not be able to help me with some of these questions, maybe point me in the right direction about finding answers, but some of them maybe you could help with and if so great, if not maybe you could offer some general advice. I'd certainly be willing to consider other schools; suggestions anyone? But my main focus is finding more out about UMass Amherst. Also, I'd like the school to be close to somewhere he can snowboard in the winter. And preferably not ULTRA far from our home in New Jersey so I can see him once in awhile; although being somewhat (a good couple hours) far is OK. He told me that he would greatly prefer the Northeast and that is the region of the country he really wants to look at. Again I’m most interested in UMass Amherst</p>
<p>Lastly I might just mention that he doesn't even really have his heart set on engineering and most probably will only work for a year or two in the field before going to graduate school for medicine, psychology, law, or teaching (even if he does graduate as an engineer).</p>
<p>Thank you again for reading all of this and in advance for your any and all advice.</p>
<p>My name is Mark and I'm trying to do my best to help my son have a full and happy life. Basically, he’s said, “Dad, I want a real college experience, at a 'normal' college. I didn't find that at Stevens. I don’t want to go to a tech school. I want to go to a regular college and get the REAL experience of being a college kid.” And that’s why I'm being proactive and looking.</p>
<p>PS - What is the typical deadline at school for fall transfers?</p>
<p>Puffosmoke--it sounds like there are some real "fit" issues between Stevens and your S. It's a tech school; he wants something broader. It's urban; he wants rural, etc.</p>
<p>As far as academics, I've heard nothing but great stuff about how well students there do. No, it's not MIT, and it's hard to fathom that someone said it practically was, but all the kids I know who go there end up with good educations and great jobs they make more money, (for what it's worth) than any of my kids' other friends who have finished college.</p>
<p>But, it might not be right for your S. Finances can be a factor. However, you called it an "instate" school, which it is not. Stevens is a private school; hence, financial comparisons with Rutgers or other state schools are meaningless.</p>
<p>Your S needs to sit down and think about what he wants in a school, since Stevens may not be it. Rather than dwelling on what he doesn't like there, he should do a lot of research, and soulsearching, to figure out what he does want, and who offers it. I don't know any thing about UMass-amherst. Questions like class sizes and financial matters might best be addressed by calls and/or a trip up there.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you and your S. I had a child who transfered when she realized she'd chosen badly, and in the end it was the best thing she did.</p>
<p>UMass Amherst is called ZooMass for a reason. </p>
<p>What about RPI? While RPI is in an armpit city (Troy), housing is readily available locally in pretty small towns (Saratoga Springs). Many students spend their weekends skiing in Vermont or upstate NY. And RPI has good engineering, frequently gives merit money, and welcomes transfers.</p>
<p>Thanks alot for the advice Garland.</p>
<p>I think your right the main issue here for my son is the 'fit' of him with the school. It's certainly true that one can graduate from Stevens and come into a relatively high paying job (I think most alumni do.) But I question whether or not he might come out of any other relatively equally prestigious school in the same position: a very well paying job and a bright future at any number of graduate schools.</p>
<p>Truth be told I really want him to be happy. I think that's something him and I definately agree on. That being happy comes before toturing yourself with something you don't like or don't feel right about. I can identify with him wanting a 'real' college experience.</p>
<p>(On a side not, I might also inquire, out of pure curiousity, where your child tranfered from and to and why it was the right thing or 'the best thing she did'.)</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input dmd77.</p>
<p>I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean about UMass (ZooMass?), maybe you could extrapolate. And as far as Troy and RPI go, my son has a couple friends who go there and from what he gathers there isn't much difference between Troy and Hoboken(Stevens) [both mainly urban, smaller type schools, in larger cities, tech-schools, poor male to female ratios, etc....all the things I get the feeling he might be trying to run away from]. Is there something he's missing? I'd really appreciate any and all input as I know theres a ton of misinformation out there and he (and I for that matter) might be misinformed. What's on the inside is often not the impression that's seen by an outsider. THANKS AGAIN!</p>
<p>I generally don't name the college she left. In general, it was an OOS public which seemed to have programs she was interesting in. She was accepted into the Honors program and got good merit money.</p>
<p>To be brief, she didn't feel academically challenged there. Most of the Honors kids were more pre-professional than into learning for its own sake; dorm conversations about "ideas" were rare. There was big time cattle-call type drinking; the campus got truly disgusting. There was little interest in politics/activism, and she found out these were important to her.</p>
<p>She (and we) gave up the merit money so she could attend a very good LAC (Wesleyan) where she fit in better, felt more challenged by the classes and fellow students, and found a more accepting/grown-up social scene.</p>
<p>It was the right decision for her.</p>
<p>Try the UMass website for specific answers on it. Try the USNW rankings website for that info. Pay the $15 or so and get a subscriber access for all the rankings so you can get more schools than they put in the book. I've never done it but it seems to work for others on the forum. Then try to condense your post to about three or less paragraphs and put it on the engineering thread on cc. I bet you'll get lots of replys from people who know a lot about the enrg schools, and engrg issues.</p>
<p>As for the girl/boy ratio, well, that's engineering. It will be the same even if your S is at big state u with 30,000 kids. There won't be many girls in his classes and with biomedical engineering his schedule will be tight, ie, not much room for an elective with girls in it. But at least at a big univ. there are girls on campus. He will have to work at meeting them tho'.</p>
<p>Good luck. Don't panic. Breathe.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Lastly I might just mention that he doesn't even really have his heart set on engineering and most probably will only work for a year or two in the field before going to graduate school for medicine, psychology, law, or teaching...
[/quote]
Puff, I think this statement is very telling. Sounds as if your son might benefit from switching majors. Engineering is extremely tough, & I can't imagine sticking with something he does not love. RPI is not as pretty a campus as Stevens, although it is much bigger & probably has more women to meet at Russell Sage. If Hoboken doesn't suit him, Troy certainly won't. It's urban, and on the upswing with some great new brew pubs & such, but it lacks the closeness to NYC that Stevens has.</p>
<p>Has he considered a switch out of engineering?</p>
<p>SO, what about PSU-
Something rural- on a warm day you can smell the cows
something for the same or preferably less money- well, slightly less
a bigger school (10K+(?)- check
a real college campus- check
a better girl to guy ratio- while his engineering classes would be mostly male, he could consider coed housing
better professors, and most of all a better school- I believe PSU's College of Engineering is ranked ~#15 in USNWR. As an upperclassman he would generally be in smaller classes taught by faculty.</p>
<p>UMass Amherst is one of the Five Colleges, two of which are all-women (Holyoke and Smith). It has a strong reputation as a party school that is not academically demanding. (Note: I went to UMass Lowell for graduate school in education, an education school that accepts 95% of its applicants and then flunks a good chunk of them out. The UMass Amherst graduates did just fine. But they also made fun of 'ZooMass.')</p>
<p>If your son doesn't want to major in engineering and wants to go to a good school where he can later go to graduate school and wants to meet girls and be in the country too, perhaps one of the SUNY schools would do the trick. </p>
<p>I mentioned RPI because I know several students there who like the place and have girlfriends too, and because their biomedical engineering is good. In addition, it's easier to get out of Troy than it is to get out of Hoboken. Your son should be doing some visiting.</p>
<p>Transfer apps typically have a deadline of March 15th.</p>
<p>As dmd said, transfer apps generally have a deadline of March 15. But some deadlines have passed, and some are March 1. Some later. Don't panic, there is time. But he will need to zero in on schools and see which involve writing special essays, etc. He will need 1-2 prof recs. Many schools work via the Common App for transfer, which helps. Some are what I call "point and click" apps, which helps even more - ie, online apps, "just the facts," quick and easy, no essays.</p>
<p>I'm a little reluctant to suggest schools at this point, as I am uncertain whether we should be focusing on good Engineering schools or not.</p>
<p>Like garland, I have been through this with my S. In my son's case, it was Engineering schools. He applied across the board to safe/match/reach, so I have a pretty substantial list of schools with solid Engineering programs and their app requirements and deadlines (from last year), if it would help.</p>
<p>If you could post a condensed version of "what he wants in a school", I might have some specific suggestions.</p>
<p>If it is Engineering that is the focus, some with simple apps and/or later deadlines that might appeal include: Purdue (large school, but feels like a small school we were told and that was our observation); Lehigh; Santa Clara University. Tulane University is extremely highly ranked in BME, has the right size campus and, if it does offer merit $$ to your son - it does not operate on that nasty "bait and switch" approach.</p>
<p>I can suggest many others when we hear your response to some of the issues raised on what he wants in a school.</p>
<p>I would look into Rutgers. It seems getting up in Biomedical Engineering.</p>
<p>PSU has 40,000 +.....</p>
<p>As other posters have said, if your son really does want to transfer he needs to figure out what he wants in a college and do the investigative work. Many large state universities are going to have the qualities that you've said he wants even if he stays in engineering but I think it's very important that he visit and sits in a class to see if the academics will also suit.</p>
<p>If your son is unsure that he wants to remain in engineering he needs to look for schools that also have the other majors he is interested in possibly pursuing. He needs to do 'research'. </p>
<p>As 1moremom suggested, take a look at Penn State. It is about a 3 1/2 to 4 hour drive from most points in Northern New Jersey. It is a straight dirve across Route 80. I don't believe it has a biomedical engineering program, but it does have a bioengineering program with a minor in mechanical engineering that looks like it might be similar. <a href="http://www.bioe.psu.edu/navigate/undergraduate.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.bioe.psu.edu/navigate/undergraduate.html</a></p>
<p>There are also ALOT of Jersey kids there and the male/female ratio is fairly even (about 54/46). Students can participate in a coop program and the school runs job fairs. PSU also has a lot of school spirit and a great alumni network. However, it is quite expensive for OOS. Currently, tuition, fees, room and board are in excess of $30,000 per year.</p>
<p>The one thing to be cautious of, in regards to Rutgers, is that the Busch Campus that houses engineering and the sciences is disjointed from other campuses making it a predominantly male campus. Although students can take some classes on the other campuses, the bus system can sometimes be cumbersome.</p>
<p>Other schools that might be of interest:<br>
Lehigh (mentioned earlier)
Bucknell- Although a LAC, it has a strong engineering program but has a small student population.
Lafayette College - Also a LAC with a strong engineering program. However, it is again a small school.
Virginia Tech - Although quite a longer distance away, Virginia Tech has a beautiful campus in a rural setting. Despite the word 'Tech' in its name, the male/female student ratio is quite good. About 60/40 male to female compared to Steven's 75/25 male to female ratio. The campus has about 20,000+ (that translates into about 8,000 females) undergraduates and offers a variety of majors.
Cornell - Has a similar feel to PSU but seems a little more rural and spread out. However, it does not have a 'campus town' as well developed as that at PSU. Highly academic environment which is extremely challenging. It does accept transfer students and has a 50/50 male/female ratio. Also, about 3 1/2 to 4 hours from Northern New Jersey.</p>
<p>To the OP:
UMass has no more party feel to it than the other three large public flagships with which I have significant experience. The Zoo label is unnecessarily derogatory, and people who have a degree from there are doing themselves NO FAVORS by encouraging its use. It suffers from comparison with the privates that are so prevalent in MA, but so would most other public universities.</p>
<p>I don't know anything about engineering at UMass, but if your son wants a more rural environment, he might like the Amherst area. There is a lot of hiking, very nice hiking, right there; same with cross-country skiing. Downhill skiing will require a relatively short drive, and I guess snow-boarding would fall into the same category. </p>
<p>Some of the departments at UMass are not good, some are. I found a range of students when I did some teaching and research there similar to the range of students at most middle of the road public flagships. (Actually, one of my degrees is from one of the high-ranked publics, and the range of students there--behaviorally and in the classroom, was very wide also.) I don't know a lot about the honors college--called Commonwealth College, I think--but I have heard, from friends still in MA, that it is getting a lot of attention and resources and is not just a paper construct.</p>
<p>As for "foreign" professors, I think most engineering faculties have a very international character. And thank heavens for that; if we had to rely on domestic production to staff our universities, we'd be in hot water. (Of course, if we had to rely on our own schools to produce kids who want to study math and science, maybe our schools would get better at producing them.)</p>