Engineering at WashU

<p>Is there anybody here who has gone through or is going through WUSTL's College of Engineering & Applied Science? If you have/are, what do you think of the courses and the college as a whole? Also, what did you major in?</p>

<p>Hi, I'm currently a freshman Biomedical Engineering student.</p>

<p>Engineering is growing as a whole at WashU, but the unpopular engineering majors such as aerospace and electrical are being discontinued, and I think that severely degrades the engineering ranking of WashU.</p>

<p>WashU Engineering is dominantly Biomedical Engineering, followed by Chemical Engineering... but those two majors are insane. Biomedical engineering is known to have a dropout rate between 20-50% by first semester (20 out of 140 students already dropped out in the first month), and by the end of 5 years, roughly 30-40/140 BMEs remain. I'm not sure about ChemE, but its also quite tough.</p>

<p>BME is growing very fast in WashU, they're making another new building in the engineering department solely dedicated to BME and ChemE. Its a very interesting major, but you have to love science, or you'll be sick by the first month.</p>

<p>^Electrical isn't being "discontinued" - civil is.</p>

<p>Also, while the new building may be bme and chemE, they're also building an entire new complex for all of engineering (the first new building is just "phase 1."</p>

<p>And to note, ~70-80 BME's remain by the end of 4 years, not 30-40 (based on the numbers in the 401 class).</p>

<p>I majored in BME, graduated in '04. I really enjoyed the program and the engineering school as a whole. The classes were difficult, but the students work together, the professors are generally very helpful, and I found much of what I learned useful (in BME grad school). </p>

<p>With that being said, I wished that there were more specialized BME courses available, and open to undergrads when I was a junior/senior. It's definitely possible to take graduate level courses, and the department is still growing, so I'm sure this is less of an issue currently. Part of the trouble is also finding time for specialized courses in the curriculum. </p>

<p>It's true that many students leave BME after the first year, but I think this is mostly because it's really hard to tell in high school what exactly BME will be like. The intro course throws you right into things, and it's definitely a shock for some. Plus, lots of students consider BME as a good path to med school, or expect it to be much closer to Biology... I'm sure a lot of them change their minds. I think the final count for my class was in the 80s, and they've gotten larger since.</p>

<p>Any specific questions about the school or departments?</p>

<p>Yeah, this is good, I'm actually kind of intriguied by Biomedical Engineering, but, like you said laurezer, it's hard to know what that major would be like considering the courses I have been taken at my high school.
However, I have perused through WU's "majors" book and the courses offered for BME seem quite interesting and things that I would like as I do really love both science and math. Just one question regarding your comment that "students think it will be more like a biology course".....does this mean that it's generally more math intensive or what exactly do you mean by this?
Also, I noticed that the school of engineering & applied sciences has a program through which a student can major in an engineering program as well as a program outside of the college, such as international and area studies. Do you know of anyone who has done this/how a student is able to do this (i.e., do you have to apply or something?). This is appealing to me because I really love global issues as well and I think a BME and IAS double major would be a great way to combine these interests. </p>

<p>One more thing. Like you noted, there aren't many classes in HS that can "prepare" you for what a BME major would be like. I'm taking physics this quarter and have also taken biology and chemistry, do you have any suggestions for getting more acquainted with BME-type classes, any summer programs, etc.? Just wondering! </p>

<p>Also, last question :), are there any chemical engineer majors here? And for those BME majors, do you know what exactly CE do? I think I know the gist, but more specifically? Thanks so much guys!</p>

<p>Ah, sorry, one more question. I think I should probably know this, but I might as well as you guys who have gone through the process. </p>

<p>So, are WU applicants accepted directly into a certain college or to the university as a whole first and then those accepted choose which college they would like to enroll in?</p>

<p>You are accepted directly into a college. That being said, it is easy to take classes in another college and it is also easy to transfer from one college to another within the University.</p>

<p>All right, so I have a question Reilly. On the "Pre-Application Data Sheet" I'm quite sure that I put "College of Arts and Science", but now I'm pretty set on engineering as a potential major. Do you think I should contact them or just wait until I get accepted to change, if I do? Thanks!</p>

<p>I had some friends that did double majors, one in engineering, and one in ArtSci or the B school. It requires some advanced planning, maybe a couple extra courses (or summer courses), and it'll help if you come in with some credits. I did a minor in German, and even that meant most of my non-engineering courses were German. It's also much much easier to get your degree in the engineering school, and a second major in ArtSci, than it is to get a dual-degree (which requires filling many, many more requirements). I think you just apply for your second major through that department, but I'm not sure... it can't be too hard :)</p>

<p>As far as expectations for BME, yeah, some people have a perception that there's less math involved than other engineering (definitely not true). I think its best to view it as any other engineering, where you should be interested in math & physics, problem solving, etc, but that the applications are related to the body. The really great thing about BME is you can have some interest in the other disciplines (electrical, mechanical, biology, etc), and can focus on those particular areas of BME. If you're able to take AP physics and calculus, those will help you best in preparation for any engineering... and AP biology will definitely help too. I'm not sure of particular BME summer programs - I've done some that are more medical related, but I would guess there's something out there.</p>

<p>Dpattzlover --</p>

<pre><code> If you're a girl, I'd highly recommend notifying Admissions that you wish to change your application to apply to the Engineering School, as women have somewhat of an admissions advantage in engineering. If you're a guy, it probably doesn't matter whether you apply to ArtsSci or Engineering.
</code></pre>

<p>I've heard that the ChemE department has recently taken on more of an alternative energy focus? Does anyone know if that's true? Just because I'm interested in engineering and alternative energy...</p>

<p>My son wants to major in BME, and he may have to choose between Chem II Honors or Biology II AP Honors.</p>

<p>Which do you think would better prepare him for BME?</p>

<p>He will definitely take Calc Honors AP, probably AB, and Physics. But that may be all he has room for, with the required courses.</p>

<p>Also, is BME a weedout program, like premed? </p>

<p>I was a biology major at the University of Miami, about 30 years ago, and the freshman biology and chemistry classes were ridiculously hard, trying to weed out the premeds.
Are there similar courses in BME? </p>

<p>Thanks for any help you can give.</p>

<p>Hi Montegut,</p>

<p>I'm a freshman BME student myself, and I would definitely recommend taking Chem II Honors over Biology II for preparation. There is definitely a lot less biology to the field than what most expect and (I think) a good chunk of physics background will also help a lot. </p>

<p>BME is weedout in the sense that those who didn't know what the major entailed start learning pretty quickly within the first few weeks of BME 140. The class lost a good 20% of its students by the second week and now a lot of my friends are all transferring to Arts and Sciences to do Bio and Biochem next semester. </p>

<p>One of the bigger problems with BME is that it has a very heavy and intense science/math courseload that lowers your GPA, and half of the people who do BME do it for the sake of getting into med school. </p>

<p>While I don't know about biology yet since I get to take that next semester, the general chemistry class here is tough but not unreasonably so. One of the more peculiar things is that you start off your first semester learning quantum mechanics. Yay for physical chemistry to kick off your freshman year. It's beyond anything offered at the high school level (AP) and it requires a lot of understanding of concepts as many problems are presented in the form of experimental data or graphs.</p>

<p>If you want, I can email you some sample lectures from BME 140 along with some associated homework problems.</p>

<p>SilverWing, could you send me some examples of course work as well?</p>

<p>You might also want to check this out. It is very similar in content to the lecture that he gave us on this topic a couple years back. There is a lot more math in the actual lecture, but that is basically the only difference. The room is also where the BME140 class is held. </p>

<p>YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces: Part 1
YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces: Part 2
YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces: Part 3
YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces, part 4
YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces, part 5</p>

<p>Q&A session:
YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces, Q & A, Part 1
YouTube</a> - Decoding the Brain: Brain Computer Interfaces, Q & A, Part 2</p>

<p>dpattzlover, as far as I know it makes little difference whether you switch now or after you are admitted. I do not know if being female will enhance your chances of being accepted into the Engineering school. I'm sure it won't hurt. I do know of people who have switched schools after being admitted but before enrolling by simply sending a request to the admissions office. It's not that much harder even after you are enrolled.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned Alternative Energy & Engineering at Wash U. They're making a HUGE investment in that department and are trying to get it on par with the prestige and resources in the BME department which is one of the best in the country. I don't know if there's specific rankings of Environmental or Alternative Energy engineering schools, but I'd assume Wash U would be one of the top schools, and its invested $60 million in the past year alone to that area.</p>

<p>Two or three years ago, the EN school did a restructuring which merged some departments and created the Department of Energy, Environmental, and Chemcial Engineering (EEC). The school is currently constructing a huge dedicated building to that department and will be completed in a year or so. The school is the headquarters for the International Center for Advanced Renewable Energy and Sustainability (I-CARES), which is a really advanced research center for those activities. </p>

<p>The EN school has a lot of study abroad programs, and while they're only a few years old and still in the growing process, it's still pretty amazing that the EN school even offers them to begin with (most engineering schools won't offer ANY study abroad experiences, or if you do go, you'll graduate a year later). One of the abroad programs is in Reykjavik, Iceland for Renewable Energy, Technology and Resource Economics as Iceland is probably the world's leader in renewable and alternative energy.</p>

<p>A couple weeks ago, Wash U announced that it's giving like $15 million dollars specifically to researching the feasibility of Clean Coal.. and while the whole concept of that is controversial, WU is probably the leader in researching the viability of that technology. Washington</a> University Engineering - News Story</p>

<p>This is the school's long term visions document found on the website: <a href="http://engineering.wustl.edu/contentfiles/otherfiles/Engineering_Vision_Plans.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://engineering.wustl.edu/contentfiles/otherfiles/Engineering_Vision_Plans.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>^ Thank you very much! I'm a junior, so I think I will definitely put WUSTL on my list of schools to look at.</p>

<p>dpattzlover:</p>

<p>BME has been the longstanding pride of Wash U's engineering school. Ranked 16th in US News, it gets great support from an excellent biology department and top research based medical school. </p>

<p>CaliforniaDancer:</p>

<p>jcool155's comments about Chem E and Environmental Engineering are a bit one-sided. In reviews of both programs Wash U is very noticeably absent from any top rankings.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060918281-post20.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060918281-post20.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Be aware that there have been lots of threads about the turmoil at the engineering school recently. New leadership and program building is coming but the re-organization of departments and the recent complete elimination of Civil Engineering have left a lot of people pretty angry.</p>

<p>dpattz,</p>

<p>this is a copy+paste homework file (might be a little bit messy):</p>

<p>BME 140 – Homework #1
Fall 2008
Due: Sept. 3, 2008
Show all your work, otherwise you will not get partial credit.
1. An axon has the membrane properties listed in the table below. Relative permeability of 1 means it
is the reference for all other ions. Someone is able to suddenly double the extracellular [Na+]
without changing anything else.
(a) (1 points) What would happen to the total amplitude of the action potential if this nerve cell
could be depolarized and why ?
(b) (3 points) What is the Nernst potential for each ion at a temperature of 6 deg C. ?
(c) (3 points) What is the resting membrane potential ( in mV)?
(d) (3 points) Assume that, to produce the peak action potential, the relative permeabilities of
sodium and potassium are reversed but that of chloride remains unchanged, what is the
membrane voltage (in mV) at the peak of the action potential ?
2. (5 points each part) You are dealing with a membrane that is permeable only to Ca2+,
a. Using the same notation as given in class, write the expression for the total flow of calcium
ions across the membrane.
b. If the concentration inside and outside the cell are 150 and 30 mM, respectively, find the
Nernst potentials at a St. Louis summer temperature of 35 deg C. and at a winter temperature
of 0 deg C .
3. Assume a membrane is permeable to Ca2+ and Cl-, but not to a large cation R+. The intracellular
concentration of [RCl] is 120 mM and of [CaCl2] is 240 mM and the extracellular concentration of
[CaCl2] is 360 mM.
a. (2 points) Derive the Donnan equilibrium condition for the permeable ions.
b. (2 points) Write the equations for conservation of mass for each ion
c. (2 points) Write the condition for space charge neutrality
d. (4 points) Write the equation that is needed to calculate (do not solve this equation) the
equilibrium concentration of extracellular calcium.
4. Refer to the slides on skeletal muscle function and the EMG demonstration in class. Based on what
you were told about the action potential and skeletal muscle function, briefly discuss the following as
best you can: :
a. (5 points) Would you expect there to be proportionally more “spikes”, i.e. more muscle APs,
per unit time with higher levels of force ? Explain why or why not.
b. (5 points) Given that the amplitude of all APs are constant, why is the “envelope” of the
EMG at the different force levels different ? That is, explain why the amplitudes of the APs
appear to increase with increasing force.
5. You were told in lecture that the total number of ions that move across a membrane during the peak
of an action potential is very small. Demonstrate that this is the case with the following example. A
giant squid axon of length 1 cm and diameter 1mm contains 50 millimoles/liter of sodium ions, has a
resting membrane potential of -80 millivolts and a capacitance of 1 microfarad. At the peak of the
action potential the voltage across the membrane increases to +20 millivolts.
a. (5 points) Supposing that sodium ions are the only ones moved during the action potential,
what is the total influx of sodium ions at the peak of the AP ?
b. (5 points) What is the intracellular concentration of sodium at the peak of the action
potential ?</p>

<p>This was the first homework in our class and arguably the hardest or second hardest. Also, I must remind you that you are given this on your FIRST DAY WITH NOTHING BUT A FEW SLIDES TO HELP YOU! The 9 homework sets combine to 10% of your final grade, with 30% in each of your midterm, term paper and final. </p>

<p>Midterm and final averages are 49 and 56 out of 100, respectively this year, and there is a fair amount of creative problem solving on the tests that would stump the majority of the class. This makes the exams very hard to study for. I only did a few points above the average for the midterm but placed in the top 6 in both the term paper (IMO the most rewarding learning experience in the class and a very good grade booster) and the final, resulting in one of the 6 top grades at the end of the semester(sorry, I'm just too happy about this). </p>

<p>The BME curriculum like a few others have previously posted is full of science/math courses and can really be difficult and stressful for the brightest students. As for pre-meds, they only occupy 1/4 of the freshman BME students and I know many that are getting out after this semester or the next. </p>

<p>BME is definitely very quantitative as well. Be prepared to do a lot of mathematics and physics.</p>