Engineering: Columbia, Penn, Brown

College Search & Selection
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As the title says, I’m debating between Columbia SEAS, Penn SEAS, and Brown Engineering, and could use some help. I’m not sure too which engineering discipline specifically, but I like physics and math, and would like to do something related to sustainability/the environment. But at the same time, I’m not 100% set on engineering, and would be open to exploring other disciplines if I felt a strong connection.

Which of these schools offers the “best” engineering program in terms of undergrad experience/education?

Which school (if any) would be the most favored by employers in general?

Here are my current thoughts for each, and what I’m thinking in terms of pros and cons:

Columbia: Probably my least favorite campus vibe when I visited. Seems like the students are too stressed and the busy life of NYC just adds on to that. That being said, the challenging aspects of both the academics and atmosphere could allow me to push myself more. In addition, in terms of academics, their engineering program and overall recognition seems to outshine the other two schools (but correct me if I’m wrong!).

Brown: The student body and overall campus vibe was more my thing, and I liked the surrounding area. I would choose Brown if its engineering program were stronger. On the other hand, its open curriculum would allow me to explore areas outside of engineering, which might lead me to pursue another major I’m more passionate about (so I might not even do engineering). In addition, they’re building a new engineering building which is going to be completed very soon.

Penn: Seems like a middle ground between the other two options in terms of academics and overall campus vibe; I can totally see myself here. It also seems like a great place for entrepreneurship, if that’s something I become interested in. I’m just hesitant because compared to Columbia, I’m not sure if it has the same recognition in terms of name and engineering program. And compared to Brown, I’m not sure if the “better” engineering program makes up for the “worse” campus vibe (I liked it at Penn, I just thought Brown was more my thing).

I know I can’t really go wrong with any of these choices, I just want to hear some more opinions before making my choice, which is coming up very soon. Thanks!

2

They all have excellent students and engineering programs. I don’t think you will have difficulty with placement from any of them.

The primary difference at Columbia is the core curriculum. They are good classes but it really limits your flexibility.

You will have better opportunities to explore across schools at Penn and Brown. At Penn you can take classes in all of the schools, and they encourage it. Penn students often have broad interests and want to do some exploring. It is also easy to add a minor and some students add a second major across schools. Adding a minor in physics or math would not be a problem. D is a CS major at Penn and has also finished a math minor.

The best source of what jobs and salaries Penn students get is the SEAS career survey. Here is the most recent one. http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/2016_Senior_Survey.pdf

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Although Brown does not have breadth requirements for most students, its ABET-accredited engineering programs require at least four humanities and social studies courses (ABET accreditation requires some general education requirement).

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Brown’s engineering is a work in progress. Right now, the applied math and the computer science programs are its standouts. Those two are terrific. They are hiring new faculty to start this fall so hopefully the new faculty plus the new facilities will make an immediate difference. It has tremedous flexibility and loads of research opportunities. I do think that Columbia has stronger engineering. It also has a very different feel to its campus and student body. Being in NYC offers loads of opportunities but the kids grow up quick there. Walk around and it feels more like a graduate school than an undergraduate school. I don’t know much about Penn’s engineering program but I have heard good things from a friend who goes there. That campus also has a different feel - very preprofessional student body, larger undergraduate body, and a little more hard partying. All great options so pick what feels right.

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Penn and Columbia engineering are comparable quality and reputation-wise… both are outstanding. Brown engineering is “good”, but won’t have the same breadth of options as Penn or Columbia.

It sounds like you do not see yourself as a match for Columbia, and are only still considering it based off some erroneous belief that its engineering is “better” than what’s at Penn. I just don’t think that is the case.

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@stemmmm Where did you find the info about the new Brown engineering faculty? I’m trying to look more into that but can’t find anything unfortunately.

@harvardandberkeley You’re right about the Columbia thing, thanks for helping me realize that! I think it’s between Brown and Penn now.

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@scoutz based on your interests it sounds like you would enjoy civil or environmental engineering which have to do with sustainable design (think LEED) for the former and environmental water and air treatment for the latter. These are majors (in addition to industrial engineering) which are not offered at penn or brown. Just something to consider.

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I have a student at Brown and we were sent some mailings about different initiatives they are undertaking. They recently did some internal reviews and plan to improve a list of things, including better engineering advising (which I agree they need to improve). If the choice was straight up on quality of engineering programs, Brown as it exists now, is not quite at the level of Penn and Columbia - with the exception of its very fine applied math and CS. You have to decide if the campus atmosphere is more or less important. For my son, the very low key, low stress students and the flexibility with classes and majors, and being able to take any class P/F - were all very important. We do not think however the engineering department is perfect. Its good, and in some areas great, but its uneven. That said, recruiting is strong and its very easy to get a masters in one extra year, which is an excellent option. And socially its a great fit for him.

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@scoutz, it sounds like you are moving in a good direction. Columbia had solid engineering (roughly comparable to Penn), but it sound like the urban atmosphere and core aren’t for you.

Brown is an awesome undergraduate environment, with more of a liberal arts feel than Penn. My sister studied math at Brown and went on to do her PhD in geophysics at MIT; she was very well prepared. Penn is a great school, and It’s engineering is ahead of Brown at this time. It really comes down to how much you prefer Brown’s overall environment vs. Penn’s more established engineering program.

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@scoutz Penn and Columbia have comparable engineering and name strength. You won’t be sacrificing anything going to one or the other.
In terms of employment cour comes, salaries Penn tens to do a bit better.

As mentioned above a thing to consider is that Penn’s curriculum is flexible and there is no core while Columbia has a core. Some people like the core some prefer a flexible curriculum.
In terms of entrepreneurship Penn has the edge.

Compared to Brown Penn and Columbia sure have greater engineering and overall academic and research strengths as universities and stronger names/outcomes.

Bu if you feel you would be really unhappy at Penn and really happy at Brown then it could be worth choosing Brown. Depends on what you value most.

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@scoutz

Penn student are definitely liberal overall, but not as liberal as Brown. There are far left liberal groups who might be excited about protesting the General Tsao’s Chicken for “cultural appropriation” like Oberlin students, but that is a smaller group. I think the larger student body at Penn is liberal but practical. They are not out there looking for a reason to protest, but are glad to do it for a more meaningful reason. D is in SEAS, and has many SEAS and Wharton friends, they are almost all solidly liberal Democrats. Students are inclusive, and Trump conservatives can definitely find their peeps, but they are a very distinct minority of students. For students who want to make a positive contribution, Penn does have endless opportunities to be a volunteer and have a real impact in urban Philly neighborhoods.

Also, it is true that Brown has more of a liberal arts feel than Penn, but Penn is still ~60% liberal arts students. I think people sometimes have the impression that every Penn student is in SEAS or Wharton which is not the case at all.

There are many things to consider, but you can’t make a bad decision here. They are all great choices. Choose the place where you think you will have the best experience, and make it a memorable four years. Congratulations!