<p>I just noticed a post in CC about many engineering degrees taking more than 4 years for a bachelors. Anyone know how accurate or common that is and why it would happen?</p>
<p>Tough enough to pay for 4 years of college let alone 5!</p>
<p>If this is common, any way to avoid it?</p>
<p>It happens a lot more than one might expect. The curricula are usually packed and if you can’t take the courses in the right sequence, it extends the total time. Co-op programs also extend the length but you are earning money under these circumstances. That being said, with some AP credit, good work habits, and possibly a bit of summer school, 4 years is quite possible.</p>
<p>The sequence of courses is often problematic to finish in four years. Despite a lot of AP credit, son had to attend summer school to take chemistry, since it was a prereq for the next year’s engineering course. He will hopefully graduate in four years, though scheduling conflicts caused him to have to take some senior level classes in his third year, and he had a hard time handling them. Lowered his GPA, but he should still be on track to graduate in four years. Despite the length of time added by a co-op, I would definitely try for that, as getting summer internships is very tough, and if you can get a co-op through your school, you have a better chance of getting a job upon graduation.</p>
<p>Extra time due to co-ops does not really count as extra school in terms of costs paid – the student would still be doing 8 semesters of school, even if s/he graduated after 9 semesters including the co-op semester. However, particularly in smaller schools or departments, there is the risk that a co-op semester may delay graduation an additional semester if required sequenced prerequisites at not offered every semester, and the co-op semester causes the student to miss one and have to wait a whole year to take it.</p>
<p>In general, four year graduation rates are not that high (for any major) except at the most selective schools. Delayed graduation often occurs because:</p>
<ul>
<li>The student cannot handle a full course load each semester.</li>
<li>The student enters needing remedial courses (engineering majors who are placed into precalculus will have a hard time graduating on-time).</li>
<li>The student changes majors late.</li>
<li>The student needs to repeat failed courses.</li>
<li>The student is not careful about fulfilling prerequisites.</li>
</ul>
<p>it is highly possible without coop or internships. You could also take summer courses, which would lessen the load as well. as for finance wise, you could always get a job in school or a coop term, either of which would help to pay off some of the courses</p>
<p>It looks like the factors that cause the delayed degree are mostly due to the student, like the ones mentioned by ucbalumnus. We’ll do our best to help him stay on track.</p>
<p>I researched after I read the posts here and one of the schools my son is considering is SUNY Buffalo which has a 4 year degree guarantee, with stipulations of course since they can only control their end of the bargain. I don’t know how many other schools do this but it seems that they are at least trying to keep up their end.</p>
<p>From nbcnewyork: "At Buffalo, its Finish in Four initiative begins this fall. Interested incoming freshmen will sign a pledge promising to keep in touch with an adviser, home in on a major early on and put academics over outside work. For its part, the university will promise a four-year course guide, help get students a seat in the classes they need and let them know if they’re falling short along the way.</p>
<p>The kicker: If a student upholds his or her end of the bargain but still can’t graduate in four years, UB will pay the tuition and fees for the work that remains."</p>
<p>I’ll make sure to research the graduation rates on any other colleges he might be applying to as well.</p>
<p>And the advice on the summer courses is very helpful- thanks.</p>
<p>Artie1-
Son just graduated from UB this past May. Double majors in Aerospace and Mechanical engineering in 4 years. No problems getting into classes. Did really, really well and had 2 summer internships (obtained through the Fall Job Fair on Campus) and had 3 job offers made to him in the Fall of his senior year. No regrets going there. (And he was accepted to all the schools he applied to.)</p>
<p>FYI- both RIT and Virginia Tech told us to expect 5 years just for one B.A. (And he graduated with two).</p>
<p>Graduation rates (4,5,6 year) for various schools are easy to find on college search engine websites or the schools’ websites. So you can compare. Though the rates are reported for a university as a whole, so you may need to dig further in the some cases to get the numbers for the engineers. Do ask questions of the schools themselves - it is reasonable to ask them for their engineering graduation rates and WHY they are low if they seem that way to you. Examples: MIT has a 4 year rate of 85%, while RPI’s is 60% and 5 years is 91% for MIT and 82% for RPI. RIT is 55% for 5 years…</p>
<p>Several (not all) California State Universities have four year graduation pledges. Examples can be found here:</p>
<p>[Graduation</a> Pledge | Academic Programs | Cal Poly Pomona](<a href=“http://www.csupomona.edu/~academic/programs/grad_pledge/index.shtml]Graduation”>http://www.csupomona.edu/~academic/programs/grad_pledge/index.shtml)
[Four-Year</a> Graduation Pledge - Advising and Academic Services](<a href=“http://www-ugs.csusb.edu/advising/fygp.html]Four-Year”>http://www-ugs.csusb.edu/advising/fygp.html)
<a href=“California State University, Bakersfield”>California State University, Bakersfield;
<a href=“Fresno State Catalog”>Fresno State Catalog;
[Program:</a> Baccalaureate Degree Requirements - California State University, Stanislaus - Acalog ACMS?](<a href=“Program: Baccalaureate Degree Requirements - California State University, Stanislaus - Acalog ACMS™”>Program: Baccalaureate Degree Requirements - California State University, Stanislaus - Acalog ACMS™)</p>
<p>However, if you look at the actual four year graduation rates of these CSUs, they are quite low, ranging from about 13% to 21% for the above listed schools.</p>
<p>What that likely means is that on-time versus delayed graduation is most likely based on factors under control of the student. The four year graduation pledge programs are presumably meant to assure students that the school won’t shut them out of the classes they need for their major (a common concern which may be valid at some schools, but appears to be exaggerated in importance).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Those rates are not too surprising given the different levels of selectivity of those schools.</p>
<p>[Higher</a> Education Research Institute (HERI) - Colleges can better predict graduation rates by looking more closely at the types of students they enroll, report finds](<a href=“http://heri.ucla.edu/pr-display.php?prQry=80]Higher”>http://heri.ucla.edu/pr-display.php?prQry=80)</p>
<p>You can find some stuff here too.</p>
<p><a href=“http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/5619/screen/23?school_name=Rensselaer+Polytechnic+Institute[/url]”>http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/5619/screen/23?school_name=Rensselaer+Polytechnic+Institute</a></p>
<p>How to avoid it? Plan. Plan. Plan.</p>
<p>Plan for different schedules. Plan for the unexpected. Plan for a semester off. Plan for a missing prereq. </p>
<p>You’d think a girl coming in with 40 credits would be able to graduate sooner, right? Pfft, nope! I’ll still be graduating in 4 years and I will have to take at least 9 credits over the summer.</p>
<p>It happens because a required class is too hard, it gets dropped and a whole year is lost because of a deep prerequisite tree. </p>
<p>It’s pretty easy to get lost in an engineering class if you’re not used it it. It’s not math, it’s not science, it’s engineering. It involves abstraction. Not everybody gets that and sometimes the course zigs and the student zags. </p>
<p>The key is modesty - it’s hard for everyone, not getting behind, and seeking help immediately if you feel like you’re getting behind.</p>
<p>Don’t be penny wise and pound foolish.</p>
<p>The fundamentals people want to see on a resume are:
<p>They don’t give a rat’s butt if they took 4, 5 or 6 years to do it.</p>
<p>
I think OP’s wallet gives a day’s butt about whether it takes 4, 5, or 6 years! :D</p>
<p>I concur with Maikai’s point. </p>
<p>As an employer, I’d rather see a 3.5 in 5 years than a 2.5 in 4 years. I’d hire the former, not the later. Your wallet isn’t my concern (with my employer hat on).</p>
<p>When I was originally transferring from CC to UF to finish my last “2 years,” I figured it would probably take 2.5, realistically. When I actually sat down with my engineering adviser, I was told it would probably take 3 more full years to graduate. This is because not only are internships highly advised (which eat up your summers), but a low course load was also highly advised. I was originally advised to take a 10 credit semester, but that wouldn’t cut it for me as I’d be left out of financial aid. He then recommended I take as close to 12 credits as possible. Better to succeed and get your degree with a little more time spent than to push yourself hard and fail.</p>
<p>I’m told by engineering advisers that internships pay engineering students very well ($15 to $30 an hour, 40 hours a week, for 12 weeks in summer). The extra financial cost of taking longer to graduate may not be so bad if you factor that in.</p>
<p>I know a few engineering/CS students (recent grads) who used the summers to take general education courses (which have a greater chance of being offered in the summer) in order to have lighter loads during the regular school year. They would take those Social Science/Humanties courses in the summer and the engineering/CS courses during the regular year.</p>
<p>That allowed them to take 12-13 credit semesters during Fall and Spring. According to these students, sometimes the summer tuition was slightly cheaper than Fall/Spring tuition. One student I know did the summer courses at their local community college at their hometown.</p>
<p>My son graduated Univ of Delaware in four years. He went in with one or two History AP classes’ credit. He took an inexpensive Sociology course at the local county college one summer, and took three classes during two “winter sessions” at UDel. Those few classes cost extra, but allowed for some room in the schedule. It’s our opinion that coursework should be done in four years. Work with the advisor, stay on top of the requirements. I believe the Dean of TCNJ cited statistics that indicate for every extra semester over four years, the student is cheating him/herself out of $100K in benefits, salary, pension. I’ll look around for the editorial.</p>