<p>My DS is struggling to remain focused in his HS AP calculus AB class. All indications are that he can do the work but he struggles to focus on it long enough to truly put in the time to get the "A". He believes this will be better in college because he will also have engineering coursework and labs where he gets to apply the math and therefore reinforce his understanding of the material. Do you agree or is this an indication that engineering may not be for him? He LOVES his Honors alegebra-based physics class and has always done very well in science. Hands-on learning has always suited him best. His college list would change a lot if engineering is not the field of study, though at least 1 offers strong physics also. </p>
<p>your kid sounds lazy</p>
<p>He won’t hit the real engineering coursework until at least sophomore year, so yes got a year of a harder version of what he’s doing now.</p>
<p>Imurhuckleberry - Maybe so but pointing it out does not answer my question. Einstein failed math and was sent home from school, but he turned out ok. </p>
<p>While I’ve never taken calculus or physics in high school, and I guarantee I was more lazy than your child; if he doesn’t like putting in the work to do the watered-down calculus in those AP classes he’ll never like doing the work in college level classes, especially at a university where is hand wont be held.</p>
<p>Now you don’t have to like the material to do well at it, you just can’t be lazy</p>
<p>He needs to buckle down and start focusing harder on the actual calculus and not just the calculations because the actual calculus, the “theoretical” as you called it, is were you learn the concept and learn to apply it to the physics he is going to need to be an engineer. </p>
<p>Plus calculus is the probably the most important tool in someones mathematical toolbox in all of science(its the reason every science major has to take at least differential and integral calculus), its so interesting that specific fields of study from within calculus have emerged like ordinary differential equations, partial differential equations, and integral equations. In fact calculus so useful that they apply it to other fields in math like statistics & probability, topology, and geometry. </p>
<p>If your kid wants to be an engineer he needs to put in the work, the fact that he admits he can do the work but doesn’t like to, is just a sign that he is lazy, and lazy wont get you anywhere in any field of study. </p>
<p>His teachers refer to him as “strategic” in allocating his time. He has always carried a very full load of coursework and ECs. He just has a hard time allocating sufficient time to things that he does not yet see a “purpose” for. In the 2nd grade it was “showing his work” in math class. Why take all that time when he could do all that in his head,get the right answer and move on to something more interesting? I know it is a novel concept, but I have tried to explain to a teenager why the effort should be expended NOW. He knows most engineering schools recommend he take math sequences from the beginning no matter what he scores on the AP exam. Simply telling him “don’t be lazy” won’t carry the day. </p>
<p>I’m really at a loss, is it because he doesn’t have enough time or is it because he doesn’t see a point in doing anything beyond limit/derivative/integral computations, ie learning actual calculus?</p>
<p>its starting to sound like, he doesn’t see a point in actually learning calculus because he A.) hasn’t figure out why its important or B.) is too pigheaded to listen anyone as why it is important. He’ll probably just have to learn why the hard way on his own when he gets into college, like when his professors are going over an engineering example and they say it something like “it should be clear by the Bernoulli differential equation that we do…” and he isn’t going to know whats going on and is going to be full of regret. </p>
<p>My 2nd post in this thread gave the reason why calculus is so important</p>
<p>@Cheeringsection Einstein never failed math. In fact, he had mastered differential and integral calculus by age 15.</p>
<p>The best analogy I can come up with is to imagine being taught all the specifics of tools in a tool chest, but never using a wrench, screwdriver, or saw to actually turn or cut something. I “struggled” with calculus, getting solid Bs. But once I saw some direct application in my first fluids class, everything clicked. Math has never been the same since. </p>
<p>I’d bet your son is in a similar situation. </p>
<p>@DecideSomeHow yes, thank you! I think you articulated it well. 16 year olds lack the life experience to make that leap in understanding. I am just asking if his take on it being better with that experience is correct. </p>
<p>Your analogy is very similar to how he described what he did not like about chemistry last year. They sat in a lab, Learned about chemistry but got to do very little actual lab work. </p>
<p>I think part of the disconnect is the math and the science proceeding at different levels. He could have handled algebra based physics at least a year ago, if not two. </p>
<p>Thank you boneh3ad! I stand corrected. That poster in my elementary school classroom will just have to be forgotten 
</p>
<p>My bigger point is that not everyone follows the same path to knowledge. I am just hoping to point DC on the right career path but yes, he may have to learn the hard way. </p>
<p>it could always be the teacher why he doesn’t see the need for calculus, the way math is taught typically makes it seem like its masturbatory, like mathematicians did all the math just for the sake of doing it</p>
<p>you should try to stress him becoming an autodidact, anybody worth their weight has a genuine self interest in these topics to the point they study it own their own</p>
<p>edit: also you typically learn the importance of it if you discover it on your own</p>
<p>Yes, calculus will become more meaningful when used to solve physics and engineering problems. (It’s too bad his hs does not have a calc-based physics class. They are rare… I had one in 1979, but there was definitely a chicken/egg challenge). </p>
<p>He should be aware that the engineering curriculum has mostly required courses. Few people enjoy them all. He will need to learn how to grit his teeth through all of it. So he might as well start learning to apply himself in AP Calc. </p>
<p>AP calculus AB and honors physics are both poor factors in determining how successful one will be in engineering but AP calculus AB would be a better one. Honors physics is very simple in terms of every problem is giving three variables and solving for a fourth. AP calculus focuses on problems with a little bit of depth and require substantive conceptual understanding. Even though the course is given over a full year, it still gives problems that are more representative of college level work. </p>
<p>Also, not all engineering classes have lab components. Only half of mine do the rest are just lectures. If he can’t get through AP calculus he won’t get through dynamics and other difficult courses.</p>
<p>I think he’s copping out and you’re looking for a cop out answer as well. He can do engineering but he has to put time into it. Saying that calculus is too theoretical won’t help because he has to go through probably eight courses that focus on theoretical physics and calculus before he gets to real engineering labs where he can apply his knowledge.</p>
<p>He does have a calculus based physics class but not until senior year :-(. </p>
<p>He will have to hang in there until then. Thanks. </p>
<p>He shouldn’t “hang in there” until then. He needs to get his act together and start caring at least enough to get the A in the course. If he’s as intelligent as you claim he is then there is no legitimate excuse for how he is treating that class if his goal is to be an engineer. If he wanted to be something else, then so be it, but with the goal of engineering, there is no excuse for giving such a poor effort that his grades fall. Getting a B instead of an A has potentially real implications on which engineering programs will accept him as well.</p>
<p>High school calculus AB is taught at a slower pace than college calculus, so it should be easier (though a top student in math may find the slow pace to be boring).</p>
<p>He may want to read the relevant portions of these books to see how calculus relates to physics concepts taught in his high school physics courses but where calculus is avoided or danced around:
<a href=“Simple Nature, an online physics textbook”>http://www.lightandmatter.com/area1sn.html</a>
<a href=“Mechanics, an online physics textbook”>http://www.lightandmatter.com/mechanics/</a></p>
<p>The most important skill for an engineering major is the ability to grind out problem sets based on basic (read: exam-accessible) formulas. I have yet to meet an engineering student who has not been bored with class topics.</p>
<p>My AP calc class was taught by my AP physics teacher as well (small private school). That made it wonderfully clear how the two were connected and he would know exactly “mature” we were mathematically so as not to run into the chicken/egg scenario. That said, in college, it isn’t until your professors says something along the lines of “remember from your calculus course…” that you finally realize you were expected to retain all that information!</p>
<p>In my senior year of hs, the AP Physics teacher had to do some quickie calc coaching for topics not yet taught in our AP Calc class. He said, “Calc is just a tool for Physics”. The calc teacher on the other hand liked to say, “Physics is just an application of Physics”. Both right in their own way. </p>