<p>The following engineering schools have low graduation rates relative to SAT scores. You would think higher math SAT would mean higher grad rate. I defined "engineering school" as over 10% of their bachelors degrees are in engineering. Worst is at the bottom.</p>
<p>I calculated a ratio of math SAT score to graduation rate. Lower is better.</p>
<p>The following schools did not fare well:</p>
<p>school, total bachelors, engineering bachelors, verbal SAT, math SAT, retention after one year, grad rate after 6 years, percent engineering, ratio math SAT divided by graduation rate</p>
<p>Rochester Institute of Technology NY 2365 379 630 670 85 61 16.0% 11.0
Embry Riddle Aeronautical University-Prescott AZ 327 85 610 640 73 57 26.0% 11.2
University of Tulsa OK 518 70 690 690 82 61 13.5% 11.3
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities MN 6319 629 670 690 86 61 10.0% 11.3
University of Missouri-Rolla MO 744 504 710 720 87 63 67.7% 11.4
University of Idaho ID 1760 204 600 620 75 54 11.6% 11.5
Florida Institute of Technology FL 478 167 630 660 77 57 34.9% 11.6
New Jersey Institute of Technology NJ 870 349 570 640 80 54 40.1% 11.9
Tri-State University IN 200 64 550 620 62 52 32.0% 11.9
University of Cincinnati-Main Campus OH 2845 353 620 640 80 52 12.4% 12.3
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology NM 184 84 670 670 68 54 45.7% 12.4
California State Polytechnic University-Pomona CA 3451 526 550 600 78 48 15.2% 12.5
Milwaukee School of Engineering WI 391 272 640 690 76 55 69.6% 12.5
Montana State University-Bozeman MT 1820 195 610 630 71 50 10.7% 12.6
Michigan Technological University MI 1008 626 660 770 81 61 62.1% 12.6
North Dakota State University-Main Campus ND 1701 274 630 650 68 51 16.1% 12.7
University of Michigan-Dearborn MI 1151 215 600 640 77 50 18.7% 12.8
University of Massachusetts-Lowell MA 1294 162 550 590 76 46 12.5% 12.8
Tennessee Technological University TN 1294 182 630 640 74 49 14.1% 13.1
North Carolina A & T State University NC 958 145 490 500 69 38 15.1% 13.2
Polytechnic University NY 302 169 610 680 76 50 56.0% 13.6
San Jose State University CA 4257 432 530 570 80 41 10.1% 13.9
Lawrence Technological University MI 415 170 630 630 74 45 41.0% 14.0
University of Alabama in Huntsville AL 816 194 630 640 77 44 23.8% 14.5
University of Puerto Rico-Mayaguez PR 1507 584 642 693 85 45 38.8% 15.4
West Virginia University Institute of Technology WV 273 100 540 560 57 33 36.6% 17.0
CUNY City College NY 1098 125 560 610 80 30 11.4% 20.3</p>
<p>The following schools did better. Best is at the top.</p>
<p>Union College NY 505 64 650 670 93 86 12.7% 7.8
University of Virginia-Main Campus VA 3422 354 710 720 97 92 10.3% 7.8
Pennsylvania State University-Penn State Main Campus PA 9649 1249 630 670 94 85 12.9% 7.9
Lafayette College PA 549 122 670 710 92 90 22.2% 7.9
University of Notre Dame IN 2072 213 740 760 98 96 10.3% 7.9
Bucknell University PA 835 138 680 710 96 89 16.5% 8.0
Gonzaga University WA 894 89 650 650 92 81 10.0% 8.0
Tufts University MA 1423 198 740 740 96 92 13.9% 8.0
United States Naval Academy MD 992 370 670 700 96 87 37.3% 8.0
Villanova University PA 1796 186 660 700 95 87 10.4% 8.0
Maine Maritime Academy ME 170 77 550 580 86 72 45.3% 8.1
United States Military Academy NY 1126 251 680 680 99 84 22.3% 8.1
Northwestern University IL 2097 302 740 760 97 93 14.4% 8.2
Stanford University CA 1756 242 760 780 98 95 13.8% 8.2
Princeton University NJ 1125 182 800 790 98 96 16.2% 8.2
University of California-San Diego CA 5235 762 660 710 94 86 14.6% 8.3
Cornell University NY 3534 628 730 760 97 92 17.8% 8.3
Johns Hopkins University MD 1516 232 730 760 96 92 15.3% 8.3
Rice University TX 811 147 760 770 96 93 18.1% 8.3
Vanderbilt University TN 1499 292 720 740 96 89 19.5% 8.3
University of California-Berkeley CA 6686 882 710 740 95 89 13.2% 8.3
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University VA 4913 1020 630 660 89 79 20.8% 8.4
Virginia Military Institute VA 277 69 610 610 77 73 24.9% 8.4
Bradley University IL 1219 165 650 610 87 73 13.5% 8.4
Lehigh University PA 1147 292 670 720 94 86 25.5% 8.4
Columbia University in the City of New York NY 1675 318 760 780 97 93 19.0% 8.4
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor MI 5614 967 690 730 96 87 17.2% 8.4
Duke University NC 1469 235 770 790 96 94 16.0% 8.4
University of Dayton OH 1477 160 620 650 86 77 10.8% 8.4
Massachusetts Maritime Academy MA 148 85 560 600 79 71 57.4% 8.5
Citadel Military College of South Carolina SC 433 66 600 600 82 71 15.2% 8.5
Marquette University WI 1617 162 640 660 91 78 10.0% 8.5
Valparaiso University IN 635 65 620 650 81 76 10.2% 8.6
Washington University in St Louis MO 1648 225 750 780 97 91 13.7% 8.6
Texas A & M University TX 8163 978 630 660 92 77 12.0% 8.6
Massachusetts Institute of Technology MA 1129 407 760 800 98 93 36.0% 8.6
University of Florida FL 8255 839 670 690 94 79 10.2% 8.7
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign IL 6732 1017 670 730 93 82 15.1% 8.9
Clemson University SC 2957 476 640 670 89 75 16.1% 8.9
United States Air Force Academy CO 883 349 668 690 93 77 39.5% 9.0
The University of Texas at Austin TX 8942 976 660 690 93 77 10.9% 9.0
University of Maryland-College Park MD 6301 658 680 710 92 79 10.4% 9.0
California Institute of Technology CA 247 81 770 800 97 89 32.8% 9.0
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology IN 373 306 670 720 91 80 82.0% 9.0
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute NY 1036 550 680 740 93 82 53.1% 9.0
Carnegie Mellon University PA 1287 323 710 780 94 86 25.1% 9.1
University of Portland OR 678 81 640 640 86 70 11.9% 9.1
Widener University-Main Campus PA 621 65 520 550 71 60 10.5% 9.2
Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art NY 199 114 700 770 93 83 57.3% 9.3
Purdue University-Main Campus IN 6018 1228 600 650 84 70 20.4% 9.3
Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus GA 2477 1388 680 720 92 77 56.0% 9.4
Case Western Reserve University OH 773 279 700 730 91 78 36.1% 9.4
Alfred University NY 421 61 613 620 80 66 14.5% 9.4
Harvey Mudd College CA 176 68 760 800 93 85 38.6% 9.4
Clarkson University NY 670 311 620 660 81 70 46.4% 9.4
North Carolina State University at Raleigh NC 4415 959 620 660 87 70 21.7% 9.4
Pennsylvania State University-Penn State Erie-Behrend College PA 532 105 570 600 83 63 19.7% 9.5
Manhattan College NY 807 128 600 620 85 65 15.9% 9.5
Worcester Polytechnic Institute MA 641 401 670 720 90 75 62.6% 9.6
Stevens Institute of Technology NJ 354 193 650 710 90 73 54.5% 9.7
United States Coast Guard Academy CT 211 104 670 680 93 69 49.3% 9.9
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo CA 3952 1057 630 670 91 67 26.7% 10.0
Ohio Northern University OH 418 88 630 650 81 65 21.1% 10.0
Auburn University Main Campus AL 4032 509 600 630 87 63 12.6% 10.0
Colorado School of Mines CO 526 438 650 690 86 68 83.3% 10.1
Oregon State University OR 3351 493 590 610 81 60 14.7% 10.2
SUNY Maritime College NY 152 76 550 590 69 58 50.0% 10.2
Tuskegee University AL 438 75 510 510 68 50 17.1% 10.2
Embry Riddle Aeronautical University-Daytona Beach FL 940 241 580 630 75 61 25.6% 10.3
Illinois Institute of Technology IL 372 189 660 710 85 68 50.8% 10.4
Iowa State University IA 4614 862 660 690 84 66 18.7% 10.5
Northeastern University MA 2887 306 650 680 90 65 10.6% 10.5
SUNY at Buffalo NY 3731 416 600 640 87 61 11.1% 10.5
Kettering University MI 424 392 610 680 90 63 92.5% 10.8
University of Nebraska at Lincoln NE 3187 320 650 670 84 62 10.0% 10.8
Drexel University PA 2314 418 610 650 84 60 18.1% 10.8</p>
<p>I think this terrific list would be more helpful [ and easier to read] if you listed the colleges in alphabetical order. And where is the University of Southern California?</p>
<p>The following list is sorted alphabetically and includes schools with less than 10% engineering graduates, like USC and Pitt.</p>
<p>school, state, total bachelors, engineering bachelors, verbal SAT, math SAT, retention after one year, grad rate after 6 years, percent engineering, ratio math SAT divided by graduation rate</p>
<p>Alfred University NY 421 61 613 620 80 66 14.5% 9.4
Arizona State University at the Tempe Campus AZ 7437 574 600 620 79 56 7.7% 11.1
Auburn University Main Campus AL 4032 509 600 630 87 63 12.6% 10.0
Boston University MA 4088 264 680 690 91 81 6.5% 8.5
Bradley University IL 1219 165 650 610 87 73 13.5% 8.4
Brigham Young University UT 6876 488 670 680 85 78 7.1% 8.7
Bucknell University PA 835 138 680 710 96 89 16.5% 8.0
California Institute of Technology CA 247 81 770 800 97 89 32.8% 9.0
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo CA 3952 1057 630 670 91 67 26.7% 10.0
California State Polytechnic University-Pomona CA 3451 526 550 600 78 48 15.2% 12.5
Carnegie Mellon University PA 1287 323 710 780 94 86 25.1% 9.1
Case Western Reserve University OH 773 279 700 730 91 78 36.1% 9.4
Citadel Military College of South Carolina SC 433 66 600 600 82 71 15.2% 8.5
Clarkson University NY 670 311 620 660 81 70 46.4% 9.4
Clemson University SC 2957 476 640 670 89 75 16.1% 8.9
Cleveland State University OH 1701 117 550 570 58 31 6.9% 18.4
Colorado School of Mines CO 526 438 650 690 86 68 83.3% 10.1
Colorado State University CO 4369 279 600 620 82 64 6.4% 9.7
Columbia University in the City of New York NY 1675 318 760 780 97 93 19.0% 8.4
Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art NY 199 114 700 770 93 83 57.3% 9.3
Cornell University NY 3534 628 730 760 97 92 17.8% 8.3
CUNY City College NY 1098 125 560 610 80 30 11.4% 20.3
Drexel University PA 2314 418 610 650 84 60 18.1% 10.8
Duke University NC 1469 235 770 790 96 94 16.0% 8.4
Embry Riddle Aeronautical University-Daytona Beach FL 940 241 580 630 75 61 25.6% 10.3
Embry Riddle Aeronautical University-Prescott AZ 327 85 610 640 73 57 26.0% 11.2
Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University FL 1290 64 510 510 81 42 5.0% 12.1
Florida Institute of Technology FL 478 167 630 660 77 57 34.9% 11.6
Florida International University FL 5080 284 590 590 78 48 5.6% 12.3
George Mason University VA 3655 336 600 610 86 56 9.2% 10.9
Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus GA 2477 1388 680 720 92 77 56.0% 9.4
Gonzaga University WA 894 89 650 650 92 81 10.0% 8.0
Harvey Mudd College CA 176 68 760 800 93 85 38.6% 9.4
Howard University DC 1365 88 680 680 85 67 6.4% 10.1
Illinois Institute of Technology IL 372 189 660 710 85 68 50.8% 10.4
Iowa State University IA 4614 862 660 690 84 66 18.7% 10.5
Johns Hopkins University MD 1516 232 730 760 96 92 15.3% 8.3
Kettering University MI 424 392 610 680 90 63 92.5% 10.8
Lafayette College PA 549 122 670 710 92 90 22.2% 7.9
Lamar University TX 1178 90 510 530 60 33 7.6% 16.1
Lawrence Technological University MI 415 170 630 630 74 45 41.0% 14.0
Lehigh University PA 1147 292 670 720 94 86 25.5% 8.4
Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College LA 4385 403 640 660 83 57 9.2% 11.6
Maine Maritime Academy ME 170 77 550 580 86 72 45.3% 8.1
Manhattan College NY 807 128 600 620 85 65 15.9% 9.5
Marquette University WI 1617 162 640 660 91 78 10.0% 8.5
Massachusetts Institute of Technology MA 1129 407 760 800 98 93 36.0% 8.6
Massachusetts Maritime Academy MA 148 85 560 600 79 71 57.4% 8.5
Mercer University GA 1088 84 630 640 79 51 7.7% 12.5
Michigan State University MI 7755 531 630 660 90 74 6.8% 8.9
Michigan Technological University MI 1008 626 660 770 81 61 62.1% 12.6
Milwaukee School of Engineering WI 391 272 640 690 76 55 69.6% 12.5
Montana State University-Bozeman MT 1820 195 610 630 71 50 10.7% 12.6
Morgan State University MD 766 74 520 510 67 40 9.7% 12.8
New Jersey Institute of Technology NJ 870 349 570 640 80 54 40.1% 11.9
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology NM 184 84 670 670 68 54 45.7% 12.4
New Mexico State University-Main Campus NM 2100 153 550 540 72 37 7.3% 14.6
North Carolina A & T State University NC 958 145 490 500 69 38 15.1% 13.2
North Carolina State University at Raleigh NC 4415 959 620 660 87 70 21.7% 9.4
North Dakota State University-Main Campus ND 1701 274 630 650 68 51 16.1% 12.7
Northeastern University MA 2887 306 650 680 90 65 10.6% 10.5
Northwestern University IL 2097 302 740 760 97 93 14.4% 8.2
Ohio Northern University OH 418 88 630 650 81 65 21.1% 10.0
Ohio State University-Main Campus OH 8384 769 640 670 92 71 9.2% 9.4
Oklahoma State University-Main Campus OK 3698 311 610 640 78 59 8.4% 10.8
Old Dominion University VA 2579 143 570 580 76 49 5.5% 11.8
Oregon State University OR 3351 493 590 610 81 60 14.7% 10.2
Pennsylvania State University-Penn State Erie-Behrend College PA 532 105 570 600 83 63 19.7% 9.5
Pennsylvania State University-Penn State Main Campus PA 9649 1249 630 670 94 85 12.9% 7.9
Polytechnic University NY 302 169 610 680 76 50 56.0% 13.6
Prairie View A & M University TX 889 79 470 470 71 38 8.9% 12.4
Princeton University NJ 1125 182 800 790 98 96 16.2% 8.2
Purdue University-Main Campus IN 6018 1228 600 650 84 70 20.4% 9.3
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute NY 1036 550 680 740 93 82 53.1% 9.0
Rice University TX 811 147 760 770 96 93 18.1% 8.3
Rochester Institute of Technology NY 2365 379 630 670 85 61 16.0% 11.0
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology IN 373 306 670 720 91 80 82.0% 9.0
Rutgers University-New Brunswick/Piscataway NJ 5774 509 630 680 89 73 8.8% 9.3
Saint Louis University-Main Campus MO 1504 76 640 660 83 75 5.1% 8.8
San Jose State University CA 4257 432 530 570 80 41 10.1% 13.9
Santa Clara University CA 1293 100 650 670 94 86 7.7% 7.8
Seattle University WA 1066 79 640 630 85 71 7.4% 8.9
Southern University and A & M College LA 969 69 480 480 67 28 7.1% 17.1
Stanford University CA 1756 242 760 780 98 95 13.8% 8.2
Stevens Institute of Technology NJ 354 193 650 710 90 73 54.5% 9.7
Stony Brook University NY 3010 182 610 670 89 59 6.0% 11.4
SUNY at Binghamton NY 2677 155 660 690 89 78 5.8% 8.8
SUNY at Buffalo NY 3731 416 600 640 87 61 11.1% 10.5
SUNY Maritime College NY 152 76 550 590 69 58 50.0% 10.2
Syracuse University NY 2654 143 650 680 90 82 5.4% 8.3
Tennessee Technological University TN 1294 182 630 640 74 49 14.1% 13.1
Texas A & M University TX 8163 978 630 660 92 77 12.0% 8.6
Texas Tech University TX 4420 328 590 620 83 56 7.4% 11.1
The University of Alabama AL 2815 188 630 630 85 63 6.7% 10.0
The University of Tennessee TN 3763 273 630 640 82 60 7.3% 10.7
The University of Texas at Arlington TX 3480 279 580 610 62 42 8.0% 14.5
The University of Texas at Austin TX 8942 976 660 690 93 77 10.9% 9.0
The University of Texas at Dallas TX 2131 134 670 690 80 55 6.3% 12.5
The University of Texas at San Antonio TX 3370 186 560 570 60 28 5.5% 20.4
Tri-State University IN 200 64 550 620 62 52 32.0% 11.9
Tufts University MA 1423 198 740 740 96 92 13.9% 8.0
Tulane University of Louisiana LA 911 81 725 700 Blank 71 8.9% 9.9
Tuskegee University AL 438 75 510 510 68 50 17.1% 10.2
Union College NY 505 64 650 670 93 86 12.7% 7.8
United States Air Force Academy CO 883 349 668 690 93 77 39.5% 9.0
United States Coast Guard Academy CT 211 104 670 680 93 69 49.3% 9.9
United States Military Academy NY 1126 251 680 680 99 84 22.3% 8.1
United States Naval Academy MD 992 370 670 700 96 87 37.3% 8.0
University of Alabama in Huntsville AL 816 194 630 640 77 44 23.8% 14.5
University of Arizona AZ 5613 387 600 630 79 56 6.9% 11.3
University of Arkansas Main Campus AR 2198 200 630 650 83 56 9.1% 11.6
University of California-Berkeley CA 6686 882 710 740 95 89 13.2% 8.3
University of California-Davis CA 5901 573 630 670 91 81 9.7% 8.3
University of California-Irvine CA 5370 447 630 670 93 79 8.3% 8.5
University of California-Los Angeles CA 7120 480 690 720 96 89 6.7% 8.1
University of California-San Diego CA 5235 762 660 710 94 86 14.6% 8.3
University of Central Florida FL 8057 432 610 640 82 58 5.4% 11.0
University of Cincinnati-Main Campus OH 2845 353 620 640 80 52 12.4% 12.3
University of Colorado at Boulder CO 5795 431 630 650 84 66 7.4% 9.8
University of Colorado at Colorado Springs CO 1225 63 590 610 64 42 5.1% 14.5
University of Colorado at Denver and Health Sciences Center CO 1605 103 590 600 71 36 6.4% 16.7
University of Connecticut CT 4231 237 630 660 93 74 5.6% 8.9
University of Dayton OH 1477 160 620 650 86 77 10.8% 8.4
University of Delaware DE 3683 205 630 660 90 76 5.6% 8.7
University of Florida FL 8255 839 670 690 94 79 10.2% 8.7
University of Houston TX 4632 243 580 610 76 42 5.2% 14.5
University of Idaho ID 1760 204 600 620 75 54 11.6% 11.5
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign IL 6732 1017 670 730 93 82 15.1% 8.9
University of Iowa IA 4105 220 650 670 84 65 5.4% 10.3
University of Kentucky KY 3519 246 630 640 78 59 7.0% 10.8
University of Louisville KY 2253 183 620 640 78 41 8.1% 15.6
University of Maine ME 1531 149 590 600 79 59 9.7% 10.2
University of Maryland-Baltimore County MD 1720 108 640 660 82 56 6.3% 11.8
University of Maryland-College Park MD 6301 658 680 710 92 79 10.4% 9.0
University of Massachusetts-Amherst MA 4038 215 620 640 83 66 5.3% 9.7
University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth MA 1153 79 570 590 74 48 6.9% 12.3
University of Massachusetts-Lowell MA 1294 162 550 590 76 46 12.5% 12.8
University of Miami FL 2452 159 670 690 90 73 6.5% 9.5
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor MI 5614 967 690 730 96 87 17.2% 8.4
University of Michigan-Dearborn MI 1151 215 600 640 77 50 18.7% 12.8
University of Minnesota-Duluth MN 1627 107 600 620 76 51 6.6% 12.2
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities MN 6319 629 670 690 86 61 10.0% 11.3
University of Missouri-Columbia MO 4461 305 650 650 84 69 6.8% 9.4
University of Missouri-Rolla MO 744 504 710 720 87 63 67.7% 11.4
University of Nebraska at Lincoln NE 3187 320 650 670 84 62 10.0% 10.8
University of Nevada-Reno NV 1972 151 570 590 77 49 7.7% 12.0
University of New Hampshire-Main Campus NH 2307 136 600 620 86 74 5.9% 8.4
University of New Mexico-Main Campus NM 2890 170 600 590 74 42 5.9% 14.0
University of New Orleans LA 1346 93 600 620 79 25 6.9% 24.8
University of North Carolina at Charlotte NC 2944 198 570 600 77 50 6.7% 12.0
University of Notre Dame IN 2072 213 740 760 98 96 10.3% 7.9
University of Pennsylvania PA 2867 238 720 770 98 94 8.3% 8.2
University of Pittsburgh-Main Campus PA 3933 370 660 670 89 73 9.4% 9.2
University of Portland OR 678 81 640 640 86 70 11.9% 9.1
University of Puerto Rico-Mayaguez PR 1507 584 642 693 85 45 38.8% 15.4
University of Rhode Island RI 2015 152 570 590 81 57 7.5% 10.4
University of Rochester NY 1146 101 700 720 93 80 8.8% 9.0
University of South Carolina-Columbia SC 3571 195 630 640 86 63 5.5% 10.2
University of South Florida FL 6118 333 570 610 81 49 5.4% 12.4
University of Southern California CA 4269 302 720 740 96 84 7.1% 8.8
University of the Pacific CA 683 61 620 670 84 68 8.9% 9.9
University of Tulsa OK 518 70 690 690 82 61 13.5% 11.3
University of Utah UT 4889 324 630 630 77 46 6.6% 13.7
University of Vermont VT 1807 90 630 640 84 67 5.0% 9.6
University of Virginia-Main Campus VA 3422 354 710 720 97 92 10.3% 7.8
University of Washington-Seattle Campus WA 7038 637 650 670 92 75 9.1% 8.9
University of Wisconsin-Madison WI 6383 623 670 700 93 78 9.8% 9.0
University of Wyoming WY 1790 157 610 610 75 56 8.8% 10.9
Utah State University UT 3230 224 620 620 72 48 6.9% 12.9
Valparaiso University IN 635 65 620 650 81 76 10.2% 8.6
Vanderbilt University TN 1499 292 720 740 96 89 19.5% 8.3
Villanova University PA 1796 186 660 700 95 87 10.4% 8.0
Virginia Military Institute VA 277 69 610 610 77 73 24.9% 8.4
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University VA 4913 1020 630 660 89 79 20.8% 8.4
Washington State University WA 4508 264 590 610 82 60 5.9% 10.2
Washington University in St Louis MO 1648 225 750 780 97 91 13.7% 8.6
West Virginia University WV 3372 321 560 580 81 55 9.5% 10.5
West Virginia University Institute of Technology WV 273 100 540 560 57 33 36.6% 17.0
Wichita State University KS 1827 133 600 620 70 36 7.3% 17.2
Widener University-Main Campus PA 621 65 520 550 71 60 10.5% 9.2
Worcester Polytechnic Institute MA 641 401 670 720 90 75 62.6% 9.6</p>
<p>I don't understand the significance/usefulness of the math SAT/grad rate number. All the schools have different average math SAT scores and different programs. This doesn't equalize anything as far as I can tell. What do you intend for it to demonstrate? Why is lower "better," since 2 schools with the same grad rate will have different scores based on the average SAT score of their students? The school with the lower SAT average may look "better" even though the school with the higher average may have a tougher program.</p>
<p>It is an attempt to show which schools do the best job with the students they enroll. If two schools have equal SATs, the school with the higher graduation rate will have a lower ratio number. If two schools have equal SATs and one has a tougher program, then perhaps that school should give its students additional academic support to help them get through. When a school accepts you, they are saying you have a reasonable chance of success.</p>
<p>What did you do about the ACT states? Ninety percent of kids in Wisconsin and Illinois (and others in the area) take the ACT, not the SAT. That makes SAT-only calculations baseless for schools that draw heavily from the midwest.</p>
<p>Also, how do you account for schools with strong co-op programs where students intentionally extend the numbers of years before they graduate to allow them to alternate classes with co-op work experience? (this is quite common in engineering compared to many other majors).</p>
<p>At Michigan, Illinois, Ohio State, and Wisconsin, the SATs were very similar to the converted ACTs. At Iowa and Minnesota, the SATs were higher than converted ACTs and probably threw off the calculation.</p>
<p>Students are given 6 years to graduate, which is plenty of time even with coop.</p>
<p>It looks like you weren't able to disaggregate the U of MN Twin Cities engineering majors (in the Institute of Technology) from the other U of MN Twin Cities students (in several other colleges). I suspect, based on local knowledge, that the engineering majors fare better in graduation rate than the figures you show, which I think are general for all the colleges on the Twin Cities campus.</p>
<p>You would think higher math SAT would mean higher grad rate" This is a pretty generalist statement and I doubt correlates to what happens to high school juniors and seniors as they advance through any college. SATs as a predictor of any success has been debated many times by many people. There are so many other factors in play it makes the ensuing statistical data fairly questionable.</p>
<p>tokenadult-
You are correct. The SAT scores and grad rates are for the entire university. It would be nice to know the specific data for the engineering colleges themselves but I don't know where to get it. But, I think engineering colleges generally have grad rates that are a little lower than the rest of the university and SATs that are a little higher. (Due to difficult curriculum.) And, the grad rates are much lower for students who start in engineering and graduate in engineering without transferring to a different major (roughly 30% to 40% for the second tier engineering schools).</p>
<p>momofthreeboys-
Graduation rates are actually very highly correlated with the average SAT score at a school. Look at the US News data. The correlation between SAT scores and college GPA is even higher.</p>
<p>Hmmm ... so, if a student decides that he/she doesn't like engineering & chooses another field while still in school, the school didn't do its job? That's not a fair assumption. Many students begin college thinking they want to be engineers, then decide they really don't want to pursue that path. It has nothing to do with lack of academic support in most cases. It's just that many students have no idea what "engineering" entails & they find that the coursework is really, really hard ... really, really boring (for them) ... really just not what they thought it would be. When a student decides to change from engineering to another major, it's not necessarily a "failure" on either the part of the student or the school. Lots of kids change their minds. Heck, the vast majority of students entering college intending to become doctors change their minds. Does that mean the schools they attend are failing them? Of course not.</p>
<p>I graduated from Kettering U (then GMI) back in the dark ages. At orientation, we were told, "Look to your left. Look to your right. One of you won't be here at the end of 5 years." The many who left did so for various reasons, but I don't remember any of it actually being the "fault" of the college.</p>
<p>At the second-tier engineering schools its "Look to your left. Look to your right. Only one of you will still be in engineering in 5 years."</p>
<p>I think most students who transfer out of engineering do so because they can't handle the work. If they are bored, it is because D and F grades are boring.</p>
<p>I see the six year graduation rate for Engineering majors at Umass Lowell is 46% (deemed low). Back in the mid 1960’s it was even LOWER, much lower, In 1961 the school was called Lowell Tech and it was all men and all engineering students and 80% commuters. We had 1,000 entering freshmen and only 134 graduates… that’s about 13%.
Things have gotten better under Bill Hogan and Marty Meehan and they now house many more students on campus. The faculty is also much more qualified, for back then I doubt half the faculty and none of the administration could have passed the undergraduate program. There is also a student life now, something totally missing in those bad old days. The tuition was cheap even by 1960;s standards about $500. I attended LTI for two years, got good grades and could not wait to get out of Lowell. I transfered to Boston University and got My BS in Electrical Engineering. I found BU to be much better although far more expensive. I regret starting at LTI. For back then the teaching staff was too small and the administration top heavy with non instructors. It was obvious back then that the school was accepting too many non-sttudents and merely kicking them out after a year or two. Not a good environment and quite tense (yes we had a few suicides).
I would hope that some of these accreditation authorities would impose some sort of requirement that school be put on probation if they fail to retain at least 60% of their student through graduation. And if that rate is still below 60% after 2 years that the schools be sanctioned as non-performing.
Yes students fail colleges but Colleges can also fail their public responsibility. What industry would accept a 60 - 70 % failure rate on a product?</p>
<p>I see the six year graduation rate for Engineering majors at Umass Lowell is 46% (deemed low). Back in the mid 1960’s it was even LOWER, much lower, In 1961 the school was called Lowell Tech and it was all men and all engineering students and 80% commuters. We had 1,000 entering freshmen and only 134 graduates… that’s about 13%.
Things have gotten better under Bill Hogan and Marty Meehan and they now house many more students on campus. The faculty is also much more qualified, for back then I doubt half the faculty and none of the administration could have passed the undergraduate program. There is also a student life now, something totally missing in those bad old days. The tuition was cheap even by 1960;s standards about $500. I attended LTI for two years, got good grades and could not wait to get out of Lowell. I transfered to Boston University and got My BS in Electrical Engineering. I found BU to be much better although far more expensive. I regret starting at LTI. For back then the teaching staff was too small and the administration top heavy with non instructors. It was obvious back then that the school was accepting too many non-sttudents and merely kicking them out after a year or two. Not a good environment and quite tense (yes we had a few suicides).
I would hope that some of these accreditation authorities would impose some sort of requirement that school be put on probation if they fail to retain at least 60% of their student through graduation. And if that rate is still below 60% after 2 years that the schools be sanctioned as non-performing.
Yes students fail colleges but Colleges can also fail their public responsibility. What industry would accept a 60 - 70 % failure rate on a product?</p>
<p>total bachelors, engineering bachelors, verbal SAT, math SAT, retention after one year, grad rate after 6 years, percent engineering, ratio math SAT divided by graduation rate, school</p>
<p>505 64 650 670 93 86 12.7% 7.8 Union College
3422 354 710 720 97 92 10.3% 7.8 University of Virginia-Main Campus
9649 1249 630 670 94 85 12.9% 7.9 Pennsylvania State University-Penn State Main Campus
549 122 670 710 92 90 22.2% 7.9 Lafayette College
2072 213 740 760 98 96 10.3% 7.9 University of Notre Dame
835 138 680 710 96 89 16.5% 8.0 Bucknell University
894 89 650 650 92 81 10.0% 8.0 Gonzaga University
1423 198 740 740 96 92 13.9% 8.0 Tufts University
992 370 670 700 96 87 37.3% 8.0 United States Naval Academy
1796 186 660 700 95 87 10.4% 8.0 Villanova University
170 77 550 580 86 72 45.3% 8.1 Maine Maritime Academy
1126 251 680 680 99 84 22.3% 8.1 United States Military Academy
2097 302 740 760 97 93 14.4% 8.2 Northwestern University
1756 242 760 780 98 95 13.8% 8.2 Stanford University
1125 182 800 790 98 96 16.2% 8.2 Princeton University
5235 762 660 710 94 86 14.6% 8.3 University of California-San Diego
3534 628 730 760 97 92 17.8% 8.3 Cornell University
1516 232 730 760 96 92 15.3% 8.3 Johns Hopkins University
811 147 760 770 96 93 18.1% 8.3 Rice University
1499 292 720 740 96 89 19.5% 8.3 Vanderbilt University
6686 882 710 740 95 89 13.2% 8.3 University of California-Berkeley
4913 1020 630 660 89 79 20.8% 8.4 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
277 69 610 610 77 73 24.9% 8.4 Virginia Military Institute
1219 165 650 610 87 73 13.5% 8.4 Bradley University
1147 292 670 720 94 86 25.5% 8.4 Lehigh University
1675 318 760 780 97 93 19.0% 8.4 Columbia University in the City of New York
5614 967 690 730 96 87 17.2% 8.4 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
1469 235 770 790 96 94 16.0% 8.4 Duke University
1477 160 620 650 86 77 10.8% 8.4 University of Dayton
148 85 560 600 79 71 57.4% 8.5 Massachusetts Maritime Academy
433 66 600 600 82 71 15.2% 8.5 Citadel Military College of South Carolina
1617 162 640 660 91 78 10.0% 8.5 Marquette University
635 65 620 650 81 76 10.2% 8.6 Valparaiso University
1648 225 750 780 97 91 13.7% 8.6 Washington University in St Louis
8163 978 630 660 92 77 12.0% 8.6 Texas A & M University
1129 407 760 800 98 93 36.0% 8.6 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
8255 839 670 690 94 79 10.2% 8.7 University of Florida
6732 1017 670 730 93 82 15.1% 8.9 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
2957 476 640 670 89 75 16.1% 8.9 Clemson University
883 349 668 690 93 77 39.5% 9.0 United States Air Force Academy
8942 976 660 690 93 77 10.9% 9.0 The University of Texas at Austin
6301 658 680 710 92 79 10.4% 9.0 University of Maryland-College Park
247 81 770 800 97 89 32.8% 9.0 California Institute of Technology
373 306 670 720 91 80 82.0% 9.0 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
1036 550 680 740 93 82 53.1% 9.0 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
1287 323 710 780 94 86 25.1% 9.1 Carnegie Mellon University
678 81 640 640 86 70 11.9% 9.1 University of Portland
621 65 520 550 71 60 10.5% 9.2 Widener University-Main Campus
199 114 700 770 93 83 57.3% 9.3 Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art
6018 1228 600 650 84 70 20.4% 9.3 Purdue University-Main Campus
2477 1388 680 720 92 77 56.0% 9.4 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
773 279 700 730 91 78 36.1% 9.4 Case Western Reserve University
421 61 613 620 80 66 14.5% 9.4 Alfred University
176 68 760 800 93 85 38.6% 9.4 Harvey Mudd College
670 311 620 660 81 70 46.4% 9.4 Clarkson University
4415 959 620 660 87 70 21.7% 9.4 North Carolina State University at Raleigh
532 105 570 600 83 63 19.7% 9.5 Pennsylvania State University-Penn State Erie-Behrend College
807 128 600 620 85 65 15.9% 9.5 Manhattan College
641 401 670 720 90 75 62.6% 9.6 Worcester Polytechnic Institute
354 193 650 710 90 73 54.5% 9.7 Stevens Institute of Technology
211 104 670 680 93 69 49.3% 9.9 United States Coast Guard Academy
3952 1057 630 670 91 67 26.7% 10.0 California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo
418 88 630 650 81 65 21.1% 10.0 Ohio Northern University
4032 509 600 630 87 63 12.6% 10.0 Auburn University Main Campus
526 438 650 690 86 68 83.3% 10.1 Colorado School of Mines
3351 493 590 610 81 60 14.7% 10.2 Oregon State University
152 76 550 590 69 58 50.0% 10.2 SUNY Maritime College
438 75 510 510 68 50 17.1% 10.2 Tuskegee University
940 241 580 630 75 61 25.6% 10.3 Embry Riddle Aeronautical University-Daytona Beach
372 189 660 710 85 68 50.8% 10.4 Illinois Institute of Technology
4614 862 660 690 84 66 18.7% 10.5 Iowa State University
2887 306 650 680 90 65 10.6% 10.5 Northeastern University
3731 416 600 640 87 61 11.1% 10.5 SUNY at Buffalo
424 392 610 680 90 63 92.5% 10.8 Kettering University
3187 320 650 670 84 62 10.0% 10.8 University of Nebraska at Lincoln
2314 418 610 650 84 60 18.1% 10.8 Drexel University
2365 379 630 670 85 61 16.0% 11.0 Rochester Institute of Technology
327 85 610 640 73 57 26.0% 11.2 Embry Riddle Aeronautical University-Prescott
518 70 690 690 82 61 13.5% 11.3 University of Tulsa
6319 629 670 690 86 61 10.0% 11.3 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
744 504 710 720 87 63 67.7% 11.4 University of Missouri-Rolla
1760 204 600 620 75 54 11.6% 11.5 University of Idaho
478 167 630 660 77 57 34.9% 11.6 Florida Institute of Technology
870 349 570 640 80 54 40.1% 11.9 New Jersey Institute of Technology
200 64 550 620 62 52 32.0% 11.9 Tri-State University
2845 353 620 640 80 52 12.4% 12.3 University of Cincinnati-Main Campus
184 84 670 670 68 54 45.7% 12.4 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
3451 526 550 600 78 48 15.2% 12.5 California State Polytechnic University-Pomona
391 272 640 690 76 55 69.6% 12.5 Milwaukee School of Engineering
1820 195 610 630 71 50 10.7% 12.6 Montana State University-Bozeman
1008 626 660 770 81 61 62.1% 12.6 Michigan Technological University
1701 274 630 650 68 51 16.1% 12.7 North Dakota State University-Main Campus
1151 215 600 640 77 50 18.7% 12.8 University of Michigan-Dearborn
1294 162 550 590 76 46 12.5% 12.8 University of Massachusetts-Lowell
1294 182 630 640 74 49 14.1% 13.1 Tennessee Technological University
958 145 490 500 69 38 15.1% 13.2 North Carolina A & T State University
302 169 610 680 76 50 56.0% 13.6 Polytechnic University
4257 432 530 570 80 41 10.1% 13.9 San Jose State University
415 170 630 630 74 45 41.0% 14.0 Lawrence Technological University
816 194 630 640 77 44 23.8% 14.5 University of Alabama in Huntsville
1507 584 642 693 85 45 38.8% 15.4 University of Puerto Rico-Mayaguez
273 100 540 560 57 33 36.6% 17.0 West Virginia University Institute of Technology
1098 125 560 610 80 30 11.4% 20.3 CUNY City College</p>