<p>These are schools with at least 20% of their bachelors graduates in engineering, sciences, math, or computer science. They are ranked by SAT math midpoint for the school overall. Cornell engineering was added separately for comparison with Tech schools (say 70% or more science technology).</p>
<p>The correlation between percent sci/tech and math SAT was +.44, not as high as I would have expected.</p>
<ul>
<li>indicates Tech school (over 70% sci/tech) </li>
</ul>
<p>school, percent science/engineering/math/comp sci, SAT math 25th percentile, SAT math 75th percentile</p>
<p>*California Institute of Technology 93.6% 770 800
*Harvey Mudd College 94.7% 740 800
*Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering 100.0% 740 800
*Massachusetts Institute of Technology 77.7% 720 800
*Cornell University - Engineering 100.0% 720 790
Princeton University 30.6% 700 790
Harvard University 25.7% 700 790
Stanford University 33.2% 680 790
Washington University in St Louis 27.2% 690 780
Carnegie Mellon University 50.8% 680 780
Duke University 32.5% 680 780
Rice University 38.6% 670 780
Columbia University in the City of New York 27.1% 670 780
Swarthmore College 29.7% 680 760
Brown University 22.5% 670 770
Cornell University 49.8% 660 770
Northwestern University 22.9% 670 760
Williams College 22.9% 660 760
Johns Hopkins University 29.7% 650 760
University of Chicago 24.5% 650 760
Tufts University 20.8% 670 740
Carleton College 33.5% 660 740
Vanderbilt University 28.5% 660 740
Lehigh University 38.0% 680 710
*Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 79.3% 650 730
*Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus 72.7% 650 730
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 33.3% 640 740
Haverford College 29.4% 640 740
University of California-Berkeley 31.4% 620 740
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 27.4% 630 730
Davidson College 20.0% 640 713
University of Rochester 33.9% 630 720
*Worcester Polytechnic Institute 91.6% 630 710
Case Western Reserve University 56.7% 620 720
Bucknell University 36.3% 630 710
Reed College 25.4% 630 710
Grinnell College 24.5% 620 720
*Stevens Institute of Technology 79.2% 620 710
University of California-Los Angeles 25.7% 610 720
University of Virginia-Main Campus 23.8% 610 720
Macalester College 21.1% 620 710
Lafayette College 36.6% 610 710
University of Wisconsin-Madison 30.2% 610 710
Whitman College 24.4% 620 700
University of California-San Diego 40.4% 600 700
University of Maryland-College Park 24.8% 600 700
St. Olaf College 23.1% 600 700
SUNY at Binghamton 20.1% 610 690
Kalamazoo College 26.4% 590 690
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 25.9% 580 700
University of Florida 22.8% 580 690
Bryn Mawr College 22.0% 580 690
Rhodes College 23.9% 580 680
Ohio State University-Main Campus 21.4% 580 680
Clemson University 29.5% 580 670
The University of Texas at Austin 25.0% 560 690
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University 37.2% 570 670
Texas A & M University 36.8% 560 670
Iowa State University 36.0% 540 690
University of California-Irvine 34.3% 560 670
University of Washington-Seattle Campus 26.1% 560 670
University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus 21.5% 570 660
Pennsylvania State University-Main Campus 29.1% 560 660
Rutgers University-New Brunswick 25.3% 550 670
Ursinus College 23.3% 560 660
Hendrix College 25.6% 550 660
Marquette University 23.8% 550 660
St Mary's College of Maryland 20.0% 550 660
Allegheny College 24.5% 555 650
University of California-Davis 41.8% 540 660
Wofford College 28.8% 550 650
The College of Wooster 21.5% 550 650
DePauw University 21.4% 540 660
Earlham College 20.6% 550 650
Wabash College 21.9% 538 660
Purdue University-Main Campus 33.5% 530 660
Millsaps College 25.6% 540 650
University of Colorado at Boulder 21.1% 540 650
University of Missouri-Columbia 20.7% 540 650
Juniata College 30.0% 540 640
Birmingham Southern College 25.3% 530 650
Michigan State University 22.9% 520 650
Auburn University Main Campus 26.0% 520 630
Hanover College 20.2% 520 630
Virginia Military Institute 34.8% 520 620
University of California-Riverside 21.3% 470 610</p>
<p>Phead128-
Good question. Just about everything good about a school is related to the quality of the student body. Just about everything good about programs in science, engineering, and technology is related to how good the students are at math. So, the best schools for science, engineering, math, technology are nearer the top of this list of schools that have a high proportion of students in these disciplines. Another point is that international students tend to score lower on the CR part of the SAT so math SAT is more valid.</p>
<p>sofla951-
Did something change dramatically last year?</p>
<p>If the point is to look at just engineering programs across such a massive range of diverse schools, it might be simpler to just look at the GRE quant scores of the graduate engineering departments. I haven't looked at all the schools on your list, but the top-30 or more engineering departments in the US are all within +/- 20 points of each other....and all are over 750.</p>
<p>"Just about everything good about a school is related to the quality of the student body. "</p>
<p>Well, I think some people would say actually offering courses in your chosen field of study helps too. As a possibly interesting follow-up exercise you might list the # engineering courses actually being offered this Spring semester at each school, and the # professors in their engineering department. I think there may be some surprises there, to some people. A program can't be considered good if they barely teach anything. Even if they are teaching their few tidbits to very smart students.</p>
<p>I guess rogracer's point woud be what survives to the end may not be the same as what goes in. Good point, especially for the state U's with high attrition. Would be an even better point if every grad had to take the GRE, not just the self-selected minority with high enough grades to even contemplate grad school, and interest in doing so.</p>
<p>But as for the cherry-picked top of the class, I can well imagine that they are completely comparable. Certainly the work place at my former engineering firm was dominated by smart state u grads.</p>
<p>Scoring high on the SAT indicates that you are a good test taker... I'm sure you understand that SAT is not a measure of intelligence. </p>
<p>Plus, SAT is only a measurement to indicate how well you will do in your first year in college. The relevance of SAT's after freshman fades away since it is only an indicator on how good grades you will get freshman yr only...</p>
<p>Student quality embodies many qualities that are not objectively quantifiable... Here is an example.</p>
<p>Let's just say that I did terrible on my math SAT section but was wait listed by MIT because I started my own online business company and a plethora of other great things.... Similarly, a friend with 800 Math SAT score with same exact AP scores and GPA applied and got* rejected* by MIT. Student qualities are defined by the intangibles.</p>
<p>Yeah, I have a feeling that things like classes offered, quality of professors, quality of facilities, job recruiting, etc all have a much bigger impact on how good an undergraduate engineering institution than whether your fellow classmates on average were able to do middle school level math a few years earlier with 100% precision or 90% precision.</p>
<p>The monydad theory is: SATs are more predictive freshman year because that's when lots of people take broad distribution requirements in a lot of areas; including areas you may be worse in. Later on, after you complete the required courses, you can better craft your program to duck your weaknesses; hence scores covering the broader range of capabilities, including your weaknesses which you are now successfully ducking, become less predictive.</p>
<p>But in the specific case of getting through engineering school: IMO SAT math scores remain relevant. Who cares if you started a business, let's see you do this Fluid Mechanics problem set. We're talking heavy math here,and it never stops.</p>
<p>Phread128, what you say is true, but don't see why it matters here. Why would the difference between intelligence and test-taking ability be variable by college? </p>
<p>At every school you'll have people aren't quite as smart but still made the cut because they coached for the test or whatever. The average aptitude is still higher where the average scores are higher, because it took a higher base ability to coach to a higher score (or higher base intelligence to do better with natural test skills, etc). University of Michigan is ~100 points above Michigan State. For every person who made it into UM by studying for those extra 100 points, there is someone who made it into Michigan State (instead of a college another step down) by the same methods.</p>
<p>^In addition to starting a business, I've taken calc 1+2, multivariable calc, and linear algebra at Harvard back in high school with that 800 math SAT kid who is now at Cornell. I'm at Hopkins and if you want to throw heavy math, bring it :D</p>
<p>I guess I know what you are saying. 800 math SAT kid was born to become an engineer, which is why he is a Civil engineering major now at Cornell.</p>
<p>Phead128, perhaps then you can suggest a different available proxy that may be more indicative , in your opinion, of math facility of the student body, for this purpose.</p>
<p>"But in the specific case of getting through engineering school: IMO SAT math scores remain relevant. Who cares if you started a business, let's see you do this Fluid Mechanics problem set. We're talking heavy math here,and it never stops."</p>
<p>I believe I only scored 720-740 on the math section the two times I took the SAT (it's too boring to take your time on, and sometimes I switch things up when I go too fast). I also scored 800 on SAT II math, got 2nd in my statewide math competition that year, 800 on gre general math section, 96th percentile on gre math subject test, taken 15+ graduate math courses while an undergrad, and got accepted to a top 5 graduate program for math last week. Exactly how was the SAT predictive of anything?</p>
<p>Honestly, it's middle school level math, and when you're comparing the kids that are overall smart enough to get into the top schools, the difference between an 800 and 750 mostly comes down to preparation and test taking skills.</p>
<p>dilksy, perhaps then you can suggest a different available proxy that may be more indicative , in your opinion, of math facility of the student body, for this purpose.</p>
<p>Specifically for engineering schools, SAT math scores still remain relevant since you will be taking classes like multivariable calc, linear algebra, fluid mechanics, etc... which is based heavily on number crunching and math based skills.</p>
<p>SATs only test basic algebra 2, geometry, and pre calculus skills right... When you take upper level electives in mathematics you build upon these skills you learned before which is why it is important. </p>
<p>I totally agree with you monydad on the important of math SAT scores with engineering schools...</p>
<p>What does the availability of other metrics have to do with the usefulness of this one? It's pretty stupid to use a flawed system just because nothing else is easily available.</p>