<p>So, I went to this "Engineering Showcase" program at University Z. The dean of the college claims that most engineering freshmen are terrible at writing and English in general. Of course, this is a state university, and not a "top" one at that.</p>
<p>What's your view on this claim? True/False/Sometimes?</p>
<p>Top has to be in quotation marks? Judging from the content of your post, you’re still in high school. So I would drop the holier-than-thou attitude before you’re certain you’re not going to end up at that measly state university. I’ve seen it happen to kids like you, and it’s one of the most satisfying things to watch them wallow in the inferiority that they ended up labeling themselves with.</p>
<p>One obvious reason is that many engineering students are immigrants or children of immigrants in households where English isn’t the dominant language. So obviously those students probably won’t have stellar English skills. After all, what do you expect? They’re surely better at speaking English than Americans are at speaking whatever their native language is.</p>
<p>I think you’ll find that a large percentage of engineering students are international and struggle with English. I personally enjoy working with people who are not from the United States, and I think that it is one of the most rewarding parts of being an engineering student. </p>
<p>As for domestic students, it’s possible that kids with strong writing skills are pushed into the liberal arts instead of engineering. That was certainly my experience in high school. </p>
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<p>Wow. So acknowledging the self evident facts that not all state universities are flagships and that flagship state universities are not competitive with top private schools makes one an elitist? Are you seriously going to tell me that there are state schools that are academically comparable to Harvard or Yale? </p>
<p>Btw, the top schools in the US have much higher verbal and writing SATs then the “top” public schools in the US, so the OP is very right to point out that this was at a state university. He could have been more sensitive by saying that it was not a flagship, instead of saying that it was not a top public, but its just semantics.</p>
<p>No, I think the attitude of the majority of CCers towards schools that won’t get you gasps from hearing the name is sickening. Even if the rigor of teaching or opportunities available at certain schools is different, science is science wherever you go. I believe half of you would kill yourselves before you attended a state university, and frankly I wouldn’t be too upset. If you get the opportunity to study at a top college, that should be its own reward. There’s obviously an issue other than academics if you have to constantly compare yourself to others and berate students at less prestigious schools.</p>
<p>I don’t think that he berated anyone. He just pointed out that his comment was in the context of a non-flag state university, and that students at other universities might have less trouble with English.</p>
<p>I think that putting top in quotations was an implied slap in the face, I think you know that too.</p>
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<p>Yes, I will claim that there are publics that can compete with Harvard or Yale, especially in engineering, which is the point of this particular subforum. For example, Berkeley, UIUC, UMich, Georgia Tech, etc etc etc. Those are all MUCH better engineering schools than any private (arguably) other than MIT and Stanford, which all of them still stack up nicely against.</p>
<p>panther if anything top being in quotations is an insult to top schools not the other way around.</p>
<p>quotations meaning that he is quoting the norm attitude or acceptance…meaning its not his opinion that top schools are on TOP or better.</p>
<p>A lot of engineers either lack a firm grasp of the rules of the English language or simply do not care. I tend to believe it’s the former because I have seen many excellent engineering students, who usually put forth substantial effort, be unable to write a decent lab report or paper for some non-engineering class. My guess is that these people may have always gravitated towards engineering and science related topics in school and went into low power mode when it was time for English class.</p>
<p>It seems that engineers often want to get the facts across as quickly as possible. They’re less interested in writing a paper that can easily by read and understood by someone else than writing something that only they can understand as quickly as possible. Perhaps requiring more peer review in papers would go a long way to helping solve this writing skill deficiency.</p>
<p>However, this is not something that is only true of engineers. I have seen my fair share of liberal arts students who are also unable to write well. Perhaps the ability to write well is just a quality that certain individuals posses and others lack to varying degrees.</p>
<p>I can see how you can read it that way rsala004, but I’m not convinced; quotations are also used to indicate the norm usage of a word, as in “I don’t think they’re good at all but that’s what we’ll call them.” I guess we can let maverick explain.</p>
<p>I would argue that most people who are in the sciences or math fields genuinely don’t care about anything that could be classified in the liberal arts field, English included.</p>
<p>yea i don’t really care for english,history…or art
gen ed. is snooze ville</p>
<p>funny how some are extreme polar opposites…while i enjoy maths and science, they would rather write an essay on history of country x</p>
<p>the 2 are not mutually exclusive. i excel at both the humanities and the sciences.</p>
<p>@ panther124. First of all, I apologize for the misunderstanding. Top was in quotation marks to indicate that this school does not rank top-10 on USNWR rankings, etc. Yes, I’m in high school, but I would rather go to this state university than a top university.</p>
<p>My question was less about the fact that this was from a state university and more about the truth in the dean’s comments. It just seemed like an over-generalization to me, but I was wondering whether it were more likely to be true in a state college setting. (I’m not going to try to argue that the type of students who go to a top school are about as good at English as those who go to this state university. I realize that top schools’ average SAT Critical Reading scores are higher.)</p>
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<p>That’s what I thought. </p>
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<p>Granted, but don’t standardized testing scores account for this to some extent? And even if these immigrants have bad English, they’d still be a minority in engineering, so do homegrown engineering majors also have bad English, or does the poor English of internationals overshadow the good English of homegrowns?</p>
<p>I’ll be majoring in engineering. I’m foreign-born but have been in the United States for 12 years now. The primary language in my household is Serbo-Croatian, but I’m more proficient in English. Students who are children of immigrant parents do not necessarily struggle with English; it depends on the amount of time they’ve been in the United States and their level of exposure to the language. On the other hand, many native-born engineering majors are more math/science-oriented; English may not be their strongest subject, or they simply aren’t all that interested in English.</p>
<p>I think the generalization is just that…a generalization. My son’s engineering class (state U) had lots of students who were very good writers. Maybe it’s just that some hs students who tend toward math and science let their humanities courses go and lose that skill. It by no means applies to everyone.</p>
<p>There are left brain people and right brain people. Give a pop quiz on non-linear equations to an advanced creative writhing class and see what you get.</p>
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There are left brain people and right brain people. Give a pop quiz on non-linear equations to an advanced creative writhing class and see what you get.
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<p>Give the same pop quiz to a math major who has never had exposure to non-linear equations and let’s what he gets. (It’s likely he won’t ace the quiz.)</p>
<p>Personally, I dislike the “good at math”/“good at english” dichotomy. A really smart person is good at both.</p>
<p>Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part, maverick. </p>
<p>I agree that the Math/English stereotype is widely touted as fact. My English Composition professor my first year was surprised that I was a Math major, since she seemed to like my essays a lot. She said it was good to see “both sides of my brain” were working. Then again, I alternated between English teachers who liked and disliked my writing in high school. Anyway, there’s no reason a science major shouldn’t be able to write a coherent essay or that an English major shouldn’t be able to pass an intro science class. It’s about stepping out of your comfort zone, not about which side of your brain is stronger.</p>