Environmental Sciences/Studies colleges

College Search & Selection
101

For a student who would be competitive for admission at schools like Carleton or Pomona, some potential safeties to consider would be:

  • Clark (MA): About 2400 undergrads…not quite a safety, but a likely
  • Gustavus Adolphus (MN): About 2100 undergrads
  • Hobart William Smith (NY): About 1600 undergrads
  • Lewis & Clark (OR): About 2200 undergrads…not quite as safe, but certainly a likely
  • Pacific (OR): About 1600 undergrads
  • Pacific Lutheran (WA): About 2300 undergrads
  • Randolph-Macon (VA): About 1500 undergrads
  • Roanoke (VA): About 1800 undergrads
  • Saint Michael’s (VT): About 1200 undergrads
  • St. Lawrence (NY): About 2100 undergrads
  • St. Mary’s College of Maryland: About 1500 undergrads; this is a public liberal arts college
  • U. of Lynchburg (VA): About 1600 undergrads
  • U. of North Carolina – Asheville: About 2900 undergrads
  • U. of Redlands (CA): About 2300 undergrads
  • Washington College (MD): About 1k undergrads
  • Willamette (OR): About 1400 undergrads
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102

I wouldn’t choose on this basis. When they are compulsory the general standard of theses (and effort put into them) is much lower than when they are optional or (especially) when they are selective.

D18 had a compulsory thesis for her honors college. It was much shorter and required much less work than S18 whose college made the opportunity competitive, so only the top ~10% did a thesis and only ~1% were designated as undergraduate research scholars.

103

I wouldn’t generalize based on these specific experiences. The quality of the thesis generally depends more on the individual and the mentor than it does on whether they are compulsory. I suspect that most honors programs or colleges require a thesis (or equivalent). I doubt that the requirements are universally as low as you describe (in my experience, they are usually considerably higher than the non-honors capstone requirement). They can be compulsory and competitive – not everyone is eligible for honors, and there are often awards granted for the strongest thesis/es in a department or division.

In any case, the thesis requirement is just a consideration. For someone who is interested in doing research, it might check a box.

104

Thank you. She did express interest in schools that have a capstone or thesis.

105

I agree it depends on the individual and mentor. That’s why it can be better when the professor is free to choose whether or not to be an advisor based on the topic proposed and if they are only mentoring one student.

Hence typical thesis quality (and standard required to pass) is higher when being approved for a thesis is more competitive: by individual application > all honors college students > all students.

But I didn’t say standards are universally low, they clearly differ by college. Just that a student who wants to write a thesis, especially in preparation for grad school, shouldn’t assume that choosing a college with a compulsory thesis will result in a better thesis. It may instead result in less opportunity to get significant amounts of individual attention from a professor.

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106

Which are in the wrong category?

Reach:

Bates
Bowdoin
Carleton
Colby
Middlebury
Pitzer
Pomona

Match:

Clark
Dickinson
Macalester
Skidmore

Safety:

Lewis and Clark
Hobart and William Smith
University of Oregon
University of Vermont
Willamette

107

Too early - but let’s assume a 1400 SAT.

Bates would happen if ED I believe.

I think Clark is a safety.

You can leave Mac and Skidmore as a target but maybe high target.

Your safeties are safeties.

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108

Would any of these schools be impossible if she only takes 2 years of foreign language in high school, completing Spanish 4? Thanks. She is taking 4 other APs and AP Spanish is making her miserable.

109

I would worry about what’s best for your student.

She’s going to get in many on that list. I don’t know how it would impact but it’s ok to be rejected. I’m glad both my kids had rejections. It shows they stretched enough.

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110

Typically, level completed is the more important aspect here, although some of the most selective colleges may prefer taking up to the highest level reachable by the student.

But most private colleges tend to have recommendations rather than requirements for high school preparation. You may have to carefully read their web sites to see what they want. But often they are not very detailed.

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111

Okay, dropping AP Spanish was a huge relief and leaves more time to focus on her other classes.

How would you describe the differences between Bates, Macalester, and Pitzer? Is it mainly location and Pitzer being in a consortium? Or is there a difference in vibe and academics for ES too?

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112

They’re all outstanding, and someone who’s interested in environmental studies at a LAC can have a great experience at any of these places. They all emphasize undergraduate research, applied learning (internships, community service, and general civic engagement) and interdisciplinary education. Also, each college has a strong sense of place and is deeply rooted in the surrounding community. That said, here are a few distinguishing characteristics of each:

Pitzer: the consortium helps shape the experience (env’l analysis is a multi-college major), and benefits of consortium include shared classes, departments, majors, athletic teams, and facilities (dinign halls, libraries, research facilities); the individual campus feels very SoCal (I speak as someone who grew up in SoCal); curriculum feels very cutting edge, strong emphasis on student creativity and interdisciplinary learning. A very politically engaged, activist vibe. Location is near LA but not right in it – maybe 30-40 minutes from downtown? So the city is accessible by light rail, bus, or car, but it’s not right at your doorstep.

Macalester: prides itself on being a LAC in the city, with lots of curricular connections to the twin cities; very international student body, for env’l studies, they have a large natural preserve about 15-20 mins from campus for classwork and research purposes. The twin cities area is a dynamic community offers lots of opportunities for civic engagement on a scale that is more accessible than LA and more cosmopolitan than Lewiston. Vibe is political and progressive, but maybe not as activist as Pitzer’s – I don’t know if that make sense. At Pitzer, you might be more likely to find people working in grassroots organizations, whereas at Macalester, you’d be more likely to find them interning in the state Capitol. That’s a huge (and probably unfair) generalization, though, with many caveats and exceptions.

Bates: wide-ranging opportunities in environmental studies making use of the many environments of Maine (mountains/lakes and rivers/coastal, including a coastal studies center open to Bates faculty and students); recognized for its outstanding first-year experience (orientation and pre-major advising); distinctive major+ curriculum, which means that all students complete a major + something else, which could be a second major, a minor, or 4-course interdisciplinary clusters that take up interesting themes; all students complete a thesis, strong culture of community service and “purposeful work” and engagement with the Lewiston-Auburn community. The vibe is laid-back, earnest, and collaborative (though not apolitical – it’s a generally liberal campus, but probably more community-focused than stridently partisan).

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113

Have you looked into Colgate University?

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114

I’m not sure if she will like SoCal or not. It’s not really my vibe (I lived in LA for a year of grad school). She doesn’t like the heat that much. How long is it actually hot there?

We visited Penn, Bryn Mawr, and Haverford this weekend. None are on her list but we were in the area. She said Penn was loud and dirty. lol She liked Bryn Mawr (especially the buildings that look like castles) but she’d prefer coed and it’s not on any ES lists. She liked Haverford but said it’s too big (it’s quite hot out today) and it also isn’t on ES lists (plus who wants to go the same school as your sibling).

115

Pitzer is inland and subject to smog because of the mountain range.

Yes, Penn is urban so it has grit. Sewanee will have similar buildings to BM - as will many. They have solid merit. Rhodes too - but it’s not in the best area.

Seems like you have a wonderful list already though…

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116

Thanks. She liked Macalester a lot even though it is urban, but it is quite residential and self-contained.

117

Claremont is definitely hotter than the parts of LA closer to the coast. When my daughter was researching colleges with a strong interest in environmental studies, neither Haverford nor BMC really stuck out, and she didn’t apply. However, if your daughter is open to women’s colleges (I don’t remember if these came up earlier in the thread), I would strongly recommend a look at Mount Holyoke and Smith. In addition to the majors at these colleges, there is a 5-college coastal studies interdisciplinary concentration (equivalent to a minor) that looks really cool and includes a lot of field work. I don’t know about Smith, but MHC is generous with merit.

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118

Do Pitzer and Pomona feel like LACs? I was wondering if because EA is a 5C major if it will make it seem like a bigger school.

Also, does anyone know the size of the main part of campus at Colby and Skidmore? I know that they are bigger campuses because they include natural areas but I’m having trouble finding the size of the main parts. I can find it for schools like Carleton and Bates. Thanks!

119

Pitzer and Pomona will still feel like LACs. Classes, even in a five-college major, will still be small, and students still have their college as a home base. When we toured (we looked at Scripps and Pitzer, not Pomona), we found it pretty remarkable how each college has a very distinctive feel and sense of community – and different aesthetics, architecture, and landscaping – even though they’re steps away from each other.

We also visited Colby and Skidmore. I don’t have the numbers on acreage, etc., but Skidmore felt a bit bigger than Colby. Colby has the natural preserve, but it’s adjacent to campus, not right in the middle, so it doesn’t seem like a much bigger place. Walking around Colby felt more or less like walking around any rural LAC – bigger than Bates and Conn College, maybe closer to the size of Bowdoin or Vassar?

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120

Okay, here are D25’s general requirements:

  • want research opportunities starting freshman year, internships, and study abroad options
  • I prefer the smaller, quieter campuses with outdoor activities/research areas
  • I like the idea of living in one of the houses with people with shared interests, I don’t think I’d mind making my own food if a grocery store was nearby
  • I’d prefer to have a campus with a strong queer community, but as long as I feel safe on campus then it’s fine (acedemic quality is more important)

I’d add that I think she’d do better at a school that isn’t overly preppy or too much of a party school.

Our way to long list. Are there any that seem to not fit with these specs?

Bates
Bowdoin
Carleton
Clark
Colby
Dickinson
Hobart and William Smith Colleges
Lewis and Clark
Macalester
Middlebury
Mount Holyoke
Pitzer
Pomona
Scripps
Skidmore
University of Oregon
University of Vermont
Willamette