Eventual Transfer from Michigan State: Financial Crisis

Transfer Students
1

<p>I am double posting this in the financial aid area, and here because the question applies to both areas. I know its long but I really need your help. PLEASE READ IT, I would greatly appreciate your help. :)</p>

<p>I am seriously considering transferring from Michigan State after my first year. The financial aid package while meeting all of my need, was packed with a lot more loans than I thought at first. I am going to have to take close to 10,000 out in loans my FIRST year along with work study. This was not what I was hoping for. If I keep on going this route I will be 40,000+ dollars in debt for an okay but not great STATE SCHOOL.</p>

<p>I also still have to go to Med School, so note how much more debt I will also have to take on for that.</p>

<p>I should of applied for scholarships at my school, but was dumb and didn't apply for any, because,
1. I didn't think I could win because of my superstar val. best friend scooping them all up, and
2. Pure clean uncut laziness</p>

<p>I'm ****ed becuz only after the deadlines passed I realized that a lot of the local scholarships other people won basically by default becuz of lack of comp. and I know I did a lot more activites and had a better gpa than a lot of people in my school that got the many local scholarships. </p>

<p>The only reason I know this is because my GC, talked to after all is said and done and is like </p>

<p>"Why didn't you apply for any scholarships, you could of won a lot of them, because of what you did in high school, a lot of them in fact had little or no comp. becuz a lot of people didn't apply or didn't apply right"
I was just thinking F**K! And when my parents found out I didn't apply to any scholarships they both blew up.</p>

<p>But I have no one to blame but myself. :(</p>

<p>So I would like to transfer to a school with a better financial aid policy, that would give me more money given that I do great in college. Preferably after my 1st year so I only put myself in a 10,000 dollar hole to start off with, instead of a 2 yr 20,000 dollar hole.</p>

<p>The schools that I have seen with consistent good financial aid policies seem to be the LAC's. My friend got all of her best aid packages from the LAC's she got into like Amherst and Williams, though these would seem to be unnaturally hard to get into due to them being LACs and thus less spots plus Im a transfer.</p>

<p>The only thing holding me back are my high school grades. Heres my stats.</p>

<p>Say Reach, Match, or Safety and other information plz.</p>

<p>G.P.A - 3.2
ACT-27
School doesn't offer AP but have taken tons of college classes through dual enrollment program.
Probably in top 30 to 40% of class
Live in Michigan
African-American Male
Low-Income
Japanese Major (pre-med track though)</p>

<p>COURSEWORK:
I am in a special program for all of the students in my county that want to become doctors. I have about 20+ credits at a local community college where we were required to take college classes. I got all A's and a couple B's for the courses except for my human anatomy class which was a C so I withdrew from it. I have taken at the college:</p>

<p>Human Anatomy, Medical Terminology, CPR & First Aid, Health Information, Psychology 201, Elementary Japanese, along with some others</p>

<p>I have generally taken all the hardest courses I could at my school such trig, 3 years of spanish and our highest level of science.</p>

<p>A LITTLE ABOUT MYSELF:
I had around a 3.5, until my junior year. I had some health problems that were involving my eyes and I was given a wrong prescription. Due to this I missed a lot of school and always had migraines but the doctors didn't find out until near the end of my junior year. I explained this in my app and so did my counselor and she wrote an excellent rec but I dont think colleges care that much. As I was rejected from schools that I could of prolly of gotten into without my bad year. My senior year I am back on track with my first semester obtaining a 3.6 and my second semester a 3.8 gpa. </p>

<p>I could of done A LOT better in high school, but I was extremely lazy. I had a 3.5 gpa my first 2 yrs, but this is surprising to me, as I NEVER STUDIED. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I studied, for anything, tests, midterm, final, ANYTHING. Even my ACT I basically didn't study for. I basically went in their blind. I could of easily gotten a 4.0 in HS, had I studied even an hour a day, but I never saw the reason, becuz I did good, but not great anyway. And I know I could of got a 30+ on my ACT, had I even studied a week for it. My behavior is changing slowly but surely now though. I only studied a LITTLE for my second semester in high school and I obtained a good gpa. I'm conquering my bad study habits and laziness little by little. THANK GOD, before college.</p>

<p>ECS:
I went to state and nationals(don't know nationals rank yet as it hasn't happened yet, but 2nd for my event at state) for Health Occupations Students of America Club. Went to state for Business Professionals of America. Did a little volunteer work. Have a lot of hospital experience as my program requires we spend hundreds of hours in the hospital with doctors. Come from a poor family and could explain my experiences of living in the ghetto and other things in my application. I have always gone to a predominantly white school in a nearby town though. Very cool, but also very different. I don't think there are that many black male japanese majors out there.</p>

<p>TRANSFER SCHOOLS CONSIDERING: (good fin. aid only plz.)
LAC's(Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Vassar)
University of Chicago
University of Michigan
Georgetown
Rice University
YOUR INPUT</p>

<p>*I am open to any schools that you guys would think would be a good idea. I would like a school that would ideally give me a better fin. aid package than Michigan State, and it doesn't have to be a top top school, but I would like it to be "better" than Michigan State. The schools I listed are more dream schools. I'm not even sure if those schools give good fin. aid so plz EDUCATE ME. *</p>

<p>And could I even get into these schools saying I obtained a 3.8+ gpa in college, after my first year, or would I have to try to transfer in as a spring sophomore or a junior, due to my high school record holding me back. I heard that spring transfer fin. aid can be bad though considering that you are a transfer and most of the schools money has been given to the fall enrollees. </p>

<p>And what about scholarships, how hard is it for college students to obtain scholarships, and are there slim pickings after you leave high school.</p>

<p>AHHHH, so many questions, so little time. Your guys input would be INVALUABLE. Thanks for even reading this long post to those of you who got all the way down here. :)</p>

2

<p>Any help please, I know the post is long, but your help would be greatly appreciated.</p>

3

<p>In terms of minimizing college debt, I doubt you will be able to find better. Best bet for that is going to an instate public institution, but you are already doing that. And personally I do not think 40k in debt is all that much; colleges often publicize the small amount of debt their graduating student body has, but those figures are hardly reliable or indicators of anything since it includes a large chunk of people whose parents pay for their college (or so I believe). </p>

<p>What I think you should do is apply for a whole bunch of scholarships at your college; there are plenty if you just go out and find some. If you do not know where to look, find the appropriate person at your school.</p>

<p>As for being a black Japanese major, I doubt it will help you being a rarity in that case. Being black will help you, being an anime nerd will not (though it was the subject of my U-Chicago essay).</p>

4

<p>Are you an in state resident? For in state residents total cost is about 16K. I disagree, 40k is a large amount of debt, especially when thinking about medical school. You may be able to reduce your housing costs in future years by being an RA.</p>

5

<p>Well 40k IS a lot, but i am saying its not much when you compare it to the debt you will have if you got OOS or to a private institution.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>

<p>Yes Golfing Mom, I am an instate resident. Thats why I'm kinda surprised that I might have to take on that kind of debt especially since I still have medical school.</p>

<p>And whats an RA?</p>

<p>And yeah Seiken, 40,000 is a a lot but still not that much when you compare OOS and private institutions, but dont private institutions tend to give more money. Especially since I'm low income wouldn't that help.</p>

<p>And Oh yeah, Seiken, is it hard to win in-college scholarships, how much money do they generally give.</p>

7

<p>Private institutions do give out more aid, but not enough to compensate for their increase in price. If anything, you will end up with more loans. In-school scholarship difficulty depends on the school you go to and how 'good' you are. If I were not transferring for example I could easily get funded for the rest of my college experience, but i care little for money over experience. </p>

<p>Anyways, an RA is a Resident Adviser (or Assistant) that watches over the student dorms, and they are typically students themselves. Being an RA usually equates to a nice monetary bonus, including free housing and meal plans (here at least).</p>

8

<p>You need an attitude check. Honestly, I wasn't going to read this thread any further once you said that Michigan State was a mediocre state school. First off, why does it matter that it's a state school? You can get the same education at a state school than at a private school. And if you think that Michigan State is mediocre, you shouldn't even go there. State is a fine institution. It is overshadowed by Michigan (one of the top 20 schools in the country), but it is one of the best public schools in the country in it's own right, and one of the top overall institutions in the country, and has a very good reputation. There are many students from all different states that would kill to attend a school like MSU. You should be happy that you have the opportunity to go there, not think before you actually take a class there that you are better than the school and that it's stupid to go there. A mindset like that will be setting yourself up for failure and a low GPA. My neighbor at my school (similar to MSU) had the same mindset of you. That he was better than the school because his ACT was 31 and that he should have gotten into better schools, and wanted to transfer the day he stepped for on campus. His GPA was a 2.6 and lowered the second semester, he made little friends because he would always talk above the institution when speaking to them, acting as if they were stupid for going there. Many brilliant kids enroll there, some choosing it over Michigan (not many, but some). You are always going to have that mindset of MSU, paying tens of thousands of dollars for a "mediocre" school.</p>

<p>If that's the case, don't enroll. If all you plan on doing is transferring to a school, and getting into a school that fits your finances, and can't imagine yourself spending 4 years at MSU, don't go there. There's no way even if you get a 4.0 during your first semester in college that Rice/Georgetown/Chicago would admit an applicant with a 3.2 overall GPA and a 27 ACT, as they look heavily into HS records after freshman year, where you won't have many credits. Enroll at a community college, build up a high GPA and credits, and then transfer. MSU participates in the MACARO agreement with Michigan Community Colleges, meaning if you have the courses completed (usually only 30 credits) that are required and a high enough GPA (2.5), MSU guarantees admission to you. U of Michigan typically accepts in-state community college applicants with a 3.3 GPA or higher, however they have no guaranteed admissions program. Being a minority helps. My advice would be to save the money, go to a community college, get a high GPA, and transfer after 2 years. Your options will likely be better as it's easier to get a high GPA at a CC (this coming from someone who has talked to friends who have taken classes at MSU and at a CC), and you won't have thrown away tens of thousands of dollars.</p>

9

<p>Thanks Wolves for keeping me in check. I really don't want to go on the campus with that attitude because I know it will ruin me.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, I LOVED MSU when I visited. The people were nice, you could stop and talk to anyone of any race and they wouldn't just look at you like an idiot or ignore your question, and they were generally nice. The facilities and staff were great, and I liked East Lansing as a whole.</p>

<p>What I meant to say is that I was surprised at the debt I might have to take on to attend there. Mind you a lot of the debt isn't under my name but my parents name, so thats why I'm concerned, in the future this won't necessarily be my problem, but their problem. </p>

<p>They really want me to go to MSU, and I really want to go to. I don't even think they would let me go to community college and pass up MSU, because while angry that I didn't apply for scholarships, they were VERY willing to take out loans. And I don't think I would EVER want to go to the local CC because of its nickname 13th grade due to about 70% of my class going there, it would be like high school all over again.</p>

<p>Its just that when you think of going that much into debt, you think of a top 30 school. If I'm going to be paying top 30 money I might as well go to a top 30 school. They also tend to give better aid. I was all Gung ho about going to MSU, until I took a hard look at my fin. aid package. While I feel MSU is a great school, it cannot be denied that it doesn't carry the "weight" of the schools I mentioned I might like to transfer to. I never get caught up in the private is better than public argument. I just go by if its a good school or not. The thing is I was thinking, "oh state school, I should get a decent fin. aid package" and then I find it packed with loans. Thats the only issue I have with the school, if there was about 20,000 dollars of debt instead there would be no questions about if I should stay there or not. Because I would love to stay there all 4 years. Im just considering if it is financially smart, especially with med. school on the way.</p>

<p>And thank you for informing me of my chances at those schools. I wouldn't of wanted to waste my time applying if I couldn't get in. Do you know of any ways of me being able to make it more financially better through scholarships or programs of the sort. Because if I could I would prefer to stay there all 4 years as it would make my life ALOT easier. Or should I try to transfer in spring of sophomore year or junior year. Or if I retook the ACT or SAT would I greatly increase my chances, of being accepted somewhere else for fall of sophomore year.</p>

<p>Thank you for your input.</p>

10

<p>Its just that when you think of going that much into debt, you think of a top 30 school</p>

<p>Think $150,000 for that (assuming you mean Ivy, private, etc - maybe 115k for OOS Cal). I am currently attending UC Riverside on a full tuition scholarship over Cal, UCLA, etc. and that would still end up costing me ~40k. When it comes to student loans and paying for a good education, that is as cheap as it gets. </p>

<p>If you want to make college as cheap as possible, kick ass at MSU and win scholarships. There are plenty to go around everywhere, and minorities often get first crack. </p>

<p>College is not like high school, it was not meant to be free.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Its just that when you think of going that much into debt, you think of a top 30 school. If I'm going to be paying top 30 money I might as well go to a top 30 school.

[/quote]

[quote]
I was thinking, "oh state school, I should get a decent fin. aid package" and then I find it packed with loans.

[/quote]

[quote]
I don't think I would EVER want to go to the local CC because of its nickname 13th grade due to about 70% of my class going there, it would be like high school all over again.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your egotistical attitude about yourself and the institution you will attend is going to haunt you. I really don't know why I spend so much time on this website (granted, the majority of the time I spent was prior to last year), because I absolutely despise kids like you who are living a life by a ranking system and what their peers are telling them, without making decisions on their own.</p>

<p>Look, inform yourself first about student loans. The average college graduate is graduating in debt of 25K. Your 40K case isn't out-of-whack, especially considering the financial need you seem to make yourself out. Every single student who goes to Michigan State gets offered that same financial aid package you got. I'll agree, your situation stunk when you were applying for schools, and getting money. You didn't have the statistics to get a full ride at a school or a significant scholarship (evident by test scores and GPA), and you weren't good enough for the elite schools who fill 100% of financial need, generally schools that are Ivy League caliber. However, that doesn't allow you to come on and complain about how MSU is too much, how it's a mediocre state school, and how you are going to transfer before you even give it a chance. Then the bashing of the community college, i'm not touching that. If you think that the community college route is a dumb way to go, or have any sort of negative attitude towards it, read about a poster named brand_182 or something like that, who got into Wesleyan and WUSTL out of a CC, the countless kids who are getting into Berkeley/UCLA out of a CC, the kids who get into Michigan (i'm sure you know some), North Carolina, the set-up transfer program at Virginia, the many transfers to USC, etc. The opportunities for a CC student are incredible. My brother scored a 21 on his ACT and had a 2.1 GPA in high school, and in the fall I can almost guarantee that the University of Michigan will be handing him an acceptance letter. </p>

<p>Here's a newsflash. Even at elite schools that fill 100% of financial need, they still give you loans, and you still graduate with debt. Applicants never pay their EFC. NEVER. Not at Harvard. Not at Yale. Not at Princeton. Even transferring to Rice who has excellent financial aid or Georgetown who is similar in that respect will only save you a few thousand dollars. Take a wild guess what the average debt at Georgetown is. It's 25,000, and you aren't exactly the type of applicant who brings statistics to the table that make them want to fork over a lucrative package to you with your statistics. Is that really better than what you are going to be paying at Michigan State? Even if you transfer, you're still graduating with at least 25K in debt, more likely around 30K total after accumulating the 10K in your first year at MSU. And all this is contingent on them accepting you, which quite honestly, even with a 4.0, the Lions have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl this year.</p>

<p>I'm not a math person. However, you said that MSU is making you pay 10K/year, including loans. Their total annual direct cost (not counting personal expenses/books/transportation) is about 15K for an in-state student, meaning they gave you 5K in scholarships/work study. I'm guessing your aid package was the Michigan Competitive Scholarship for 1300/year, the Michigan Merit Award for 1500/year, and the 3000/year Work Study (them expecting you to work that many hours is completely unreasonable). Then the rest was the subsidized stafford loan (2625) and the PLUS loan (~9000). That is not a bad FA package. It's what everyone gets. There are only a few state schools that actually have the funds to meed all the accepted applicant's financial need - Virginia and North Carolina. You are 1 person at a school of 35,000 undergraduates, keep that in mind.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
Private institutions do give out more aid, but not enough to compensate for their increase in price

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I disagree. The financial aid package I received from one private school made the cost equivalent to my state's flagship.</p>

13

<p>Wow, Wolves, a little harsh, but I'll take it as constructive criticism, Thanks. :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your egotistical attitude about yourself and the institution you will attend is going to haunt you. I really don't know why I spend so much time on this website (granted, the majority of the time I spent was prior to last year), because I absolutely despise kids like you who are living a life by a ranking system and what their peers are telling them, without making decisions on their own.

[/quote]
</p>

<ol>
<li>I AM NOT, a prestige whore. The only reason I want to transfer to a "better" school is because I've read that they give very good financial aid packages, while still maintaing a name that can get you into a good graduate or professional school. I was VERY willing to go to MSU, until I received my fin. aid package.</li>
</ol>

<p>
[quote]
However, that doesn't allow you to come on and complain about how MSU is too much, how it's a mediocre state school, and how you are going to transfer before you even give it a chance. Then the bashing of the community college, i'm not touching that. If you think that the community college route is a dumb way to go, or have any sort of negative attitude towards it, read about a poster named brand_182 or something like that, who got into Wesleyan and WUSTL out of a CC, the countless kids who are getting into Berkeley/UCLA out of a CC, the kids who get into Michigan (i'm sure you know some), North Carolina, the set-up transfer program at Virginia, the many transfers to USC, etc. The opportunities for a CC student are incredible. My brother scored a 21 on his ACT and had a 2.1 GPA in high school, and in the fall I can almost guarantee that the University of Michigan will be handing him an acceptance letter.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I do not think that the community college route is a bad one, I just feel its not for me, especially MY local community college. You must remember I have taken close to 30 college credits at the school(don't know why I didn't really mention this in my apps), so I have a good idea how my local CC works. IT IS CRAP. Minimalistic class offerings. Crappy facilities. The administration is SO unorganized. I can't mention how many times I drove the 20+ minutes to class only to find out when I got there along with all the other students that they cancelled it. And this is just the minimum. Mind you there are GREAT CC's, like one of the ones my cousin is going to near Washington D.C, it seems better all around, but mine is not good at all.</p>

<p>There are so many reasons why I feel I, and my parents feel I need to go away to college, I can't even list them all. Just some of them are.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Good friends, but bad people, i need to get away from. It seems like 80% of my friends from childhood now either, Do Drugs, Sell Drugs, or are affiliated in some sort of shady things such as robbery such. Mind you they are really good friends, like when they are about to do something they always say "You got a lot going on for you, I don't want you around this, don't come over" or the such.</p></li>
<li><p>Meet new people</p></li>
<li><p>Broaden my horizons.
etc.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>And here is some of the info on my fin. aid package. I posted somewhere else my fin. aid what I remembered it being but now that I have it in front of me it isn't as bad as what I listed before but their isn't as big as a difference as what I estimated before.</p>

<p>Fin. Aid Package info: I'll round
Cost of Attendance: 18,700</p>

<p>Parent Loan: 4,100
Stafford Loan: 3,500
Perkins Loan: 1,800
Work Study: 2,700</p>

<p>Rest Grants n Scholarships</p>

<p>
[quote]
You are 1 person at a school of 35,000 undergraduates, keep that in mind.

[/quote]

I will try to keep this in mind.</p>

14

<p>That is a terrible aid package. I agree you should try to do better and hey if you can get in a better college go for it!</p>

15

<p>Sorry perkins loan is 1,100, but it doesn't make that big of a difference, you should also read some of my responses in the parent forums. It would explain why it would be hard for me to go to another school.</p>

16

<p>Can you describe your financial circumstances (parents' income, etc)? Knowing that could, to a certain extent, help us figure out what you should have gotten if it were a deviation.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
You must remember I have taken close to 30 college credits at the school(don't know why I didn't really mention this in my apps), so I have a good idea how my local CC works. IT IS CRAP. Minimalistic class offerings. Crappy facilities. The administration is SO unorganized.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is more common than you think. If anything though, you would have no problem studying there for a semester or year (if all else fails) and earning a 4.0 with which you could apply for transfer to other schools that may give you a better FA package.</p>