Ex won't give me any information

Parent Cafe
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<p>Yes, thumper1, you are right. Dad needs the BILL, ultimately. And mom does not have to be privy to any of that. And she won’t be if dad and daughter make it so. </p>

<p>The issue is relatively straight forward and easy to solve – assuming that OP and daughter have a relationship of trust. Mom does not have to be involved with dad’s business. (She may not WANT to be, outside of doing her share for her daughter.) Dad does not have to be involved with mom’s business. Daughter can have positive attention from both parents and money for college from both parents, and all can be well. In an ideal world, they could all sit down together to discuss. My guess is that both adult parties, or possibly even just one party (the histrionic, “victimized” dad), have contributed to the reality that sitting down together isn’t going to work.</p>

<p>Like Heron says, Op contradicts himself in ways that make no sense. </p>

<p>Yes, JustAMomOf4, I am making assumptions that may or may not be true. You, too, are making assumptions that may or may not be true. Like that the OP is painting an accurate picture of the situation. </p>

<p>My choice to doubt OP’s description of the facts is based on my own assumptions. And an awareness of certain red flags. But I do wish all of them the best in all future troubles. Particularly the daughter.</p>

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<p>We all filter the OP’s statements through our own experience of contentious divorces, either our own or those of people we are close to. In my case it’s a divorce that occurred in our extended family. The parents carried on their war for years, several times ending up in court. The children were caught in the middle, and the daughter, whose mom was overprotective, developed a kind of learned helplessness as a coping strategy (which then caused the mom to become more overprotective - a vicious cycle). I could very well imagine that if the girl had been accepted to a college her mother would have been trying to control access to financial information - not because she was vindictive or controlling but because she would have been genuinely trying to ease her daughter’s way.</p>

<p>Not to say that the situation is similar here - I wouldn’t presume to make that assumption. I do know, however, that the best way to avoid conflict is to empower the daughter to take charge of her own responsibilities. If she wants to get her college education paid for she needs to make sure that appropriate information gets to the proper people in a timely fashion.</p>

<p>The dad, for his part, needs to explain very clearly to his daughter what he and his ex agreed to in terms of funding her education. Perhaps the mother’s understanding is that he will pay 50% of the COA, while his understanding is that he will pay 50% of the net costs after the financial aid award is factored in. Depending on the amount of finaid, that could be substantially different, and it’s important that any misunderstandings get ironed out now instead of when the kid is at college and the tuition is due.</p>

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<p>Again, this is not professional advice but…</p>

<p>paying $ to a college for tuition for another person is not considered a gift to that person under the tax code. Giving $ to the kid directly MAY BE a gift under the tax code…and that has tax consequences. So, speak to your accountant or tax adviser before giving the kid the $.</p>

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<p>^^ Well put MarinMom.</p>

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<p>The more I read this thread, the more the OP’s position doesn’t make sense to me. He says he wants and intends to pay his portion of his daughter’s college costs, but he needs to see her awards to find out exactly how much her costs actually are. So far, so good. </p>

<p>Then he says if his evil harpy of an ex doesn’t reveal that information, he will sue her. Why? Either he finds out how much the college costs are, and pays his part as he should, or for some reason his daughter doesn’t want his money and doesn’t ask for it, in which case he’ll pay nothing. Going to court wouldn’t help him, wouldn’t help his ex-wife, wouldn’t help his daughter. No one would be better off except the lawyers. If the daughter wants the money, all she has to do is show him her tuition bill or her award letter.</p>

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<p>Exactly, Cardinal Fang, except that in our extended family the threat of going to court became the knee-jerk first response of both parents whenever there was a conflict. What the OP needs to do is realize that there are better ways of dealing with the issue than fighting another battle with his ex. </p>

<p>The amazing thing in our family is that now the kids are grown and there is no stimulus for conflict these two people are able to be quite civil to each other. Last Christmas we were all able to sit down to dinner together. It was the nicest Christmas in 17 years. The cycle of conflict is most damaging to the kids, but in our case it affected everyone else as well. If the OP can find ways to step back from conflict and empower his daughter he will be giving her a gift as valuable as her college education (maybe even more valuable).</p>

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<p>

Bingo. well said.</p>

<p>What I see is a frustrated Dad. Perhaps this is his first and/or only child going to college. The financial aid maze and paying for college is confusing enough - through in a rockcy relationship with his ex-wife and perhaps daughter and frustation mounts.
The daughter could be intimidated by Mom and be lost in the process as well. </p>

<p>Hopefully, Dad has a good relationship with his daughter and they both can benefit from a productive one on one.</p>

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<p>I think that while the bill is important, the award letter is too. Often the student and parents have a choice of whether to accept loans and work-study…the daughter here and her parents need to work together to determine if any part of the package is going to be rejected.</p>

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<p>^ For both of my D’s schools, FA awards are posted on the Bill. I suppose there’s some emotional netherworld out there where a scholarship award is rejected “just so Dad pays more” but I’m not going there, even for discussion.</p>

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<p>-I can see how people could read this scenario either way- </p>

<p>Evil controlling mom won’t give Dad the info to plan, Dad does not know the right terminology to use, but just wants to be part of the process (maybe there is a profile school on the list with a $50k COA and no grants and a FAFSA school with 80% COA funded and he wants to help decide not just be hit with the bill)</p>

<p>Evil controlling Dad will do anything to get into exes business including use his DD to obtain personal financial info about the mom.</p>

<p>We have no way to know for sure and if Dad is new hear he may simply be using terms like FAFSA/EFC etc incorrectly. How many newbies on the FA board ask how much in grants the FAFSA will give them as if it is a granting agency?</p>

<p>So, either way, good or bad, all he needs is the award letter.</p>

<p>Whether he or she is evil, or even if no one is evil and every one is just confused and overwhelmed, it seems like minimizing contact would minimize conflict.</p>

<p>The DD can obtain a copy of letters from all schools making offers, some may not be out yet, and get them to the Dad. She does not even have to talk to her mother about it.</p>

<p>Unless DD wants no input and no money.</p>

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<p>In case the OP is still reading after all the irrelevancies…we had the EXACT situation with my stepkid. Husband was not given ANY information by the ex. We sat stepkid down and said we would pay our share but we needed to know what it was, and when she decided what school she wanted to attend could she give us a copy of the award letter…which is all the noncustodial needs to know really.</p>

<p>She hemmed and hawed and dragged her feet because it was uncomfortable for her. It was not that she was being put in the middle or that there was any conflict, it was just as the OP said: her mom handled all financial matters and did not share anything with her and kept a deathlock on the PINs, etc. for all the online applications. Stepkid did not even know her dad had been paying child support–her mom had let her believe she was shouldering all costs of raising her!!!</p>

<p>It does NOT have to be emotional or adversarial…and best of all you do not even have to TALK to the ex about it! Just tell the student you will be happy to pay the bill when you get a copy of that letter, and if she needs help getting another copy help her track one down through the school.</p>

<p>It is her education, and yes it is a new thing being responsible in some way for your own financial arrangements, but it would be new and uncomfortable for her in some other way if it wasn’t this issue, so try not to make it about the divorce and the ex’s control issues and try to frame it as part of her new set of responsibilities as an emerging adult–understanding her financial obligations and communicating with those who are responsible for helping her meet them.</p>

<p>In our situation there was some drama but we got the letter and I don’t even know if the ex knew about it. We put a check for the amount of our contribution in the stepkid’s checking account–did not even bother telling the ex we had done so since she was being so uncooperative. Maybe she paid the whole bill and maybe Stepkid is just banking our contribution—don’t know and don’t care and it’s not our business anyway.</p>

<p>Stepkid is now a junior and now that she knows how to read her award letter, etc. she just tells us what our share is and I don’t even think my husband bothers with a copy of the letter anymore. And after seeing us pony up once or twice the ex has been more cooperative.</p>

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<p>OK, something weird is happening. My first two paragraphs end up in the middle of my post but when I open the edit window it looks fine. I cannot figure out how to fix it, so for the record the post starts with “in case the OP is still reading.”</p>

<p>I have had this problem before–is it a known issue with long posts?</p>

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<p>Deleted correction</p>

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<p>Regardless if you have a child custody agreement, either parent can go to court afterwards and change the custody/child support due to financial circumstances. When a court date is scheduled, either parent has a right to request through a subpoena to get the 1040 and any pertinent financial info from the other spouse. If the child is a minor, the non-custodial parent still is legally entitiled to have acess to the medial/school records of the child. Beyond the state requirements, there are federal laws that dictate process like the Uniform Interstate Family Support Act. As long as the child is a minor, neither parent can refuse to provide their personal financial information. Enforcement of course is a different thing, it is the same deal as enforcing visitation rights.</p>

<p>Obviously we do not know the specific circumstances, but may be the dad is willing to contribute a fair share towards his d tuition but does not want to be taken for a ride by his ex. He might have a new family and while he wants to help his d, he is going to struggle to do that. What if the child/ex wants to go to the most expensive school assuming that dad would pay the bill?</p>

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<p>Ana1, perhaps your comments are coming from somebody who has NOT been through a protracted legal battle that costs many tens of thousands of dollars with nothing to show for it. People who are contentious, paranoid, and histrionic can keep things in court interminably. They can stall, disregard, and disobey subpoenas with little to no repercussion. Some people always think they’re being wronged, and so they keep seeking recourse. Even when they lose, they don’t see that they had any contribution to the loss – instead, they’ve been wronged all over again.</p>

<p>Maybe you’ve had a more amicable predicament, or your county’s courts hear family law cases with equanimity (doubt it), or you haven’t had the predicament at all.</p>

<p>Your first sentence is very true. The reality of it (at least in my county/state) … is that it costs far more in energy, anguish, and dollars than any potential gain. At least when you’re dealing with somebody who is pathologically unreasonable.</p>

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<p>Over 40k my own legal bill just the first year against x’s big firm attorney who had handle custody cases that went all the way to state supreme court.
I know exactly how it is to deal with such x’s. I wanted to present what the law says because some people in the forum were questioning dad and saying that it was none of his business what the x spouse’s finances are. That is wrong and parents involved in such cases need to understand that it is a federal law and if the other parent has a good attorney will force you to present the documents at the end, so save yourself the trouble and the irritation.They are even allowed to subpoena the records directly from the IRS. Unfortunately the problem with custody/child support situations is that the x spouse’s personal feelings are intermingled in the situation. At the end you need to raise yourself above the situation and think of the child. Otherwise you can just litigate your personal finances to ruins. Thank god I had a great lawyer who was pragmatist and did not just care about the billing hours. There are many men who think that when they send the child support check is an issue of control for them. Same for women. Some states have moved that all financial matters/child support payments to and from go directly through the state child support enforcement agency. The elimination of the financial transaction directly through the two parties definitely reduces tention. And for custodial parents, I would like to caution you, I know that you may be personally hurting from how the relationship ended, or that your financial condition has been downgraded dramatically while the x enjoys a great lifestyle. However, you must think what is most important for your child’s phychological well being. Do you think that your child will really develop without any wounds and problems that won’t manifest in his/her personal relationships with a partner in the future? I know the rant was unrelated to the thread, but been there done that and just wanted to give my experience.</p>

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<p>I will admit that I have read through the entire thread so some of what I am saying may have already been said.</p>

<p>If your D is applying to a FAFSA only school, the EFC will be based on your ex’s income and not yours, so there is no reason for you to see the FAFSA.</p>

<p>If your D’s school uses the CSS profile to give institutional aid, then you will have to file the non-custodial profile. The school will send you an EFC based on your income and assets. They will not share your FA information with your ex or your D.</p>

<p>Remember FA is based on the following premise:</p>

<p>Cost of attendance - Expected Family contribution = Demonstrated need</p>

<p>If it is a FAFSA only school it will be </p>

<p>Cost of attendance - Expected Family contribution(your ex-wife’s) = Demonstrated need</p>

<p>example if the COA is 40,000
The EFC based on your ex’s EFC is 10,000 (this is what the they beleive she will be able to pay based on her income & assets</p>

<p>the demonstrated need will be 30,000.</p>

<p>the demonstrated need will probably be be met through a combination of grant aid and self help aid (work study/student loans).</p>

<p>If the FAFSA school leaves a gap in the FA (a gap is when the school does not meet the demonstrated need) you can agree to pay the gap or a portion of the gap in the FA package to create a win-win situation with your D and your ex.</p>

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<p>There is a difference between schools that use the federal methodology (FAFSA only schools) and school that use the institutional methodology (the FAFSA + the CSS profile or the FAFSA + the school’s own institutional aid form)</p>

<p>At minimum you file the FAFSA (at almost every school) to determine your eligibility for federal aid (Pell/ SEOG grants, AAG, Stafford and Perkins loans, state aid, etc). Most public univeristies will just require the fafsa (the exception may be UVA, UNC- CH, Mich and a few others which may require their own forms)</p>

<p>The CSS profile is used at different colleges that distribute their own institutional aid (Many of these schools have much deeper pockets).</p>

<p>Many schools that use a federal methodology to determine EFC will require only the FAFSA. Schools that use an instutional methodology or a combination of the 2 will require the CSS profile or their own FA forms.</p>

<p>Differences between the IM and FM models are</p>

<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>

<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>

<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>

<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>

<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>

<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>

<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>

<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>

<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>

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<p>Bless you, Ana1. So you have been through this sort of stress. Hope it’s all behind you.</p>