Divorced dad: what finaid info will I need from mom to plan/pay for college?

Paying for College
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<p>I have a daughter and am divorced. My daughter lives with her mom. In my divorce, I agreed to pay for half of tuition/books/fees at a level equal to the state university where I live. And I am very happy to do so. Education is important to me. I think I'm responsible for paying for my daughter's education, divorce or not. </p>

<p>I am in the midst of renegotiating some aspects of our divorce decree. I've come to realize that when it comes time to start planning for the financial aspects of college, my ex-wife might make it difficult by not letting me know some financial details that I might need to plan, possibly because her parents will be giving her the money for her contribution to our daughter's college expenses. I have serious worries that I will keep getting random huge bills being sent to me saying, "pay $10,000 by October."</p>

<p>I don't really know what details I need to request from her. For example, if my ex-wife's parents are putting aside money for my daughter for college, I might need to plan on my daughter not getting any aid at all (right?? or does it depend on how the money is earmarked? don't I need this information?). When I asked my ex-wife about it, she said she wasn't going to talk about it. (Neither of us makes gobs of money...me, $60K , her $50K) </p>

<p>So, what's the worst-case scenario? Perhaps my ex-wife's "half" will be paid for by her parents, and my half will be paid by me (or, everything that is owed I guess), with no financial aid because of the grandparent's money? My decree does not state that my ex pays for half of college by the way, only that I do. I have also come to realize that if she won't fill out the forms, or there is a lot of money socked away earmarked for my daughter, I might not have the ability to be able to help finance my "half" with student loans etc (that I will be paying back). I picture something like, "My half is covered. You take care of everything else. Sorry she doesn't qualify for any student loans or aid...your problem." Or am I worrying too much?</p>

<p>I'm worried that when the time comes (about 6 years from now) she might not fill out some forms that are needed, but I'm not sure what those forms are. I know what the FAFSA is and am worried that if she has money from the grandparents, she just won't bother filling out aid forms and will send me bills. </p>

<p>So, because I'm in the midst of negotiating right now, I'd like to put in some language in our decree that is not terribly confrontational but that indicates the mother needs to cooperate by filling out the FAFSA (and whatever else?) and disclosing the financial funds set aside for our daughter (right? Or is that inappropriate). But what information do I need?</p>

<p>All I want to do is get SOME kind of picture of what I need to be saving or preparing for when college arrive. This negotiation process might be a way to help me do that. My lawyer doesn't have many suggestions on this front. So, I ask you for help. Do I say that "Mother will cooperate with filling out all financial aid forms, such as the FAFSA, needed for college..." I saw one lengthy thread on this site in which a father is having difficulty even getting his ex to provide the EFC from the award letter. I don't even know enough to know what the EFC is, except on a very basic level (and from vague memories of filling out my own FAFSA forms a million years ago).</p>

<p>What's your advice? What information do I need, now and later, to be able to make some plans to pay...rather than waiting until college starts and just fielding bills, with no context or idea of what might be coming next? Any divorced mothers or fathers out there who are paying half? How do you handle the incoming bills? Sharing the expenses? </p>

<p>I want to minimize the contact we will have to have over college bills and deal directly with the school. Is something like that possible?</p>

<p>Sorry for the million questions, but because we're in a negotiating phase right now, I'd like to try and hammer a bit of this out so that it doesn't cause problems later. I do believe that if our decree says she needs to do something, she'll do it. If it doesn't, she'll just say that she's not "legally obligated" to fill out the FAFSA and so forth, which has become a frustrating reality.</p>

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<p>I only skimmed your post, but here is a summary of what you will know at this time when your daughter is a senior (and want to know now). Most schools in the USA require that students fill out a FAFSA for federal student aid–this is the basic form. When parents are divorced, the forms asks for information ONLY from the parent that “provides more than 50 percent of the support during the previous calendar year” or something like that. There are also some question on the form, especially if your wife/ex is in a higher bracket, about child support paid. There is also a question right at the very end of the form about “any other sources of income not mentioned” which I call the Rich Uncle question, but in all seriousness the grandparent help might need to be mentioned there.</p>

<p>BUT—> your child might apply to one of 300 or so higher-ranking schools with more money to give away, that require the CSS PROFILE to be filled out for financial aid AS WELL. If so, THIS form will ask about your wife/ex’s info, YOUR information, and info about stepparents as well, if anyone has legally remarried. There will be a way for you and the mom to fill out this form while preserving privacy between you, but you will be filling out what is called the “non-custodial parent” information. </p>

<p>The College B o a r d website, under “paying for college” (upper right side) has a list of the colleges and universities that require the CSS Profile, FYI.</p>

<p>And you can go to the fafsa.ed.gov website, and click in the lower right hand corner on fafsa4caster.gov, to get a feel for what is asked on the FAFSA. This is a great tool for getting an estimate of the federal govt.s computer generated estimate of your family’s obligations, and for starting to get familiar with it.</p>

<p>I hope this helps and did answer your concerns.</p>

<p>Also ALWAYS remember that financial aid is about what you EARN, not what you OWE–so get out of debt as much as you can, with the lead time you have now!</p>

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<p>Bleah–CC is making a mess of my post. Here is the first paragraph which does not seem to be appearing:</p>

<p>I only skimmed your post, but here is a summary of what you will know at this time when your daughter is a senior (and want to know now). Most schools in the USA require that students fill out a FAFSA for federal student aid–this is the basic form. When parents are divorced, the forms asks for information ONLY from the parent that “provides more than 50 percent of the support during the previous calendar year” or something like that. There are also some question on the form, especially if your wife/ex is in a higher bracket, about child support paid. There is also a question right at the very end of the form about “any other sources of income not mentioned” which I call the Rich Uncle question, but in all seriousness the grandparent help might need to be mentioned there.</p>

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<p>The way I read this is:</p>

<p>If your State U costs $20,000/year for tuition/books/fees, you are obligated to pay $10K/year, regardless of whatever aid your D may or may not get.</p>

<p>So you wouldn’t need to worry about FAFSA or what your ex does or does not do. The rest of the funding could reasonably be seen to be hers, and could be met by her own income from stomping grapes part-time, gifts from the grandparents, your D’s own college loans, financial aid from the college (whether merit or needs-based) or whatever.</p>

<p>If your D gets a $12K/year merit award for $20K State U or Harvard, you’d still be obligated to pay the $10K. </p>

<p>If your D wants to go to a Profile school, there is on the Profile that she/your ex will fill out questions about whether there’s a divorce agreement re: college funding, and if so, how much your contribution will be. You may be asked to fill out the non-custodial parent form; my understanding is that your ex would not have access to the information on that form. You do it online, and it goes to the college(s).</p>

<p>You could I’m sure change the wording of your divorce agreement while you’re negotiating to say something like “I will pay up to half of my State U tuition/fees/books minus half the needs-based/merit aid and any other grants, awards, scholarships D gets, and exwife will pay blah blah and must do blah blah.”</p>

<p>There are benefits both ways. One requires less involvement with your ex; one requires more. One frees you from your ex’s behavior, the other doesn’t. One lets you know upfront what is required, the other makes you dependent on what happens in the future (besides tuition hikes at Your State U, but those will happen regardless!). </p>

<p>You can always contribute more should it be needed and you be inclined and be able to afford it.</p>

<p>I know which option I’d go for were I in your shoes, but then, I’m not you, so which one I’d pick doesn’t matter!</p>

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<p>At your income and your ex-wife’s, your D stands a good chance of getting some aid unless your ex remarries and doubles her income. </p>

<p>I would put some language into your agreement such as:</p>

<p>"parents will cooperate by filing appropriate financial aid applications (FAFSA and Profile) in a timely manner so as to maximize daughter’s opportunities for financial aid. Parents agree to share information regarding scholarships received or college award letters.</p>

<p>Father agrees to contribute a maximum of 1/2 the cost of the D’s in-state flagship per year for 4 (or 5) years directly to the college. If D chooses to attend a college where the cost of attendance is higher than the in-state flagship, Father will not cover the additional costs. If D’s cost of attendance is lower than the in-state flagship, Father will contribute half of the actual COA".</p>

<p>Details of that last paragraph are up to you - you need to feel comfortable with what you’re agreeing to pay. You could set a maximum dollar limit, for example, so that inflation doesn’t come into play.</p>

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<p>“half of tuition/books/fees at a level equal to the state university where I live”
Is this also the state your daughter lives in? If she and her mom move and that makes her an oos student for that university, your cost could be more than you think! Also, no room/board? </p>

<p>I would also ask that any financial aid notifications, bills, etc. be sent to me within 10 days of receipt to make sure you’re getting info on a timely basis.</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone. This has been very helpful, in so many ways. It might help to paste in the wording our our current decree. I do not think my daughter’s mom will agree to have herself included in paying half of the costs, so I’m not going to even try for that. (So, note that below only says “father”</p>

<p>*“The Father will pay for all expenses of a 4-year undergraduate degree, including tuition and books, room and board, and student fees equivalent to those charged to a resident attending the primary state university in the child’s state of residence” *</p>

<p>Radimom…thanks for mentioning the CSS PROFILE, which I now know need to educate myself about. Thanks for giving me the information about where to look it up and the FAFSA basics. Those are great resources. I don’t think my daughter’s mom wants her to go out of state or to a private school, so I’m guessing she will end up at a local state school. I think I’ve read on here that most state schools only use the FAFSA? </p>

<p>Owlice…you made some excellent points about the nuances of our decree that will likely come into play and how my approach to handling the finances can affect how much interaction we have. It also brought home a good point…that for planning purposes, I can figure out a “highest” scenario" and always hope that it might be lower. It also made me realize that if I’m obligated to pay half (say, $10,000/year), I might be obligated to pay that amount even if my daughter gets enough aid that $10,000 isn’t even required. Gosh. I hate to say that I imagine my ex-wife would expect that money to be sent directly to her because our decree says so, even though the spirit of the decree was SUPPOSED to be that we share the costs of her education equally. In other words, my daughter starts school one Fall, and I get an e-mail saying, “The cost of XYZ university this year, including books, room/board, and fees is $20,000. Please send me $10,000. Thanks.” With no mention of, say, a needs-based award that cut her cost of attendance to $15,000, therefore making my “real” half about $7,500. </p>

<p>The wording you suggest…minus grants etc…is very very helpful. Is that what folks keep referring to as “COA?” “Cost of attendance?” (Is “COA” the same as the “expected family contribution?” Should I use one of those phrases in our new agreement to make the playing field somewhat level?)</p>

<p>vballmom…I can combine owlice’s suggestions with your suggested wording and have an excellent section to handle this situation. I noticed you used “COA,” which I’m going to research a little. I’m just now learning the lingo (EFC, COA, and so forth).</p>

<p>sk8rmom…yes, my daughter and I live in the same state. The decree indicates the state in which my daughter lives, so I don’t think being out of state will be an issue. Room and board is included…here is the wording, which is pretty standard in my state and in many others in which the parents agree to the addendum:</p>

<p>Now, I don’t exactly know what the “primary” state university would be in any state…I suppose that’s kind of up for discussion.</p>

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<p>Just want to commend the OP for being a stand up guy and doing this. We see many posts from kids whose parents let their divorce jeopardize their kids education. Best of luck to you and bless you for being one of the good guys.</p>

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<p>Okay, just my .02 here, but what would be wrong with the following language:</p>

<p>“Parents agree to share equally in meeting post-secondary education expenses, facilitating financial aid, and providing access to all available documentation and communication from prospective schools and funding entities. Combined parental financial contributions will not without consent exceed the equivalent of the cost of attending an in-state, 4 year university program including tuition, residence, books, fees and miscellaneous expenses.” </p>

<p>Here’s why I personally like that language better. First of all, if your d. receives merit money to a private and the equivalent cost is half of what an instate would have cost, she is unrestricted and gets to enjoy the merit. It reflects also the reality that you are both equally responsible for MEETING the cost, which is not to say paying directly. The concept of “sharing equally” is accurate by CSS profile standards in that the EFC will be adjusted to reflect the addition of your income (and rightly so). (So if the EFC goes from $4,000 to $16,000…which it likely will…it is truly equally shared for you each to contribute $8k by whatever means…whether a relative or personally.)</p>

<p>There is no reason whatsoever for your former wife to disagree with a clause worded in this way. There is no reason why, with your comparatively similar salaries (adjusted by the support you pay) you EACH would not be responsible for a similar share of post secondary education financing.</p>

<p>Frankly, I would not sign the agreement unless the language emphasized equal sharing and access to communications.</p>

<p>Trust me, a lot can change in six years - remarriage, new children, radically different financial circumstances. You want to ensure equity and a spirit of cooperation NOW.</p>

<p>Best wishes to you.
Cheers,
K</p>

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<p>That’s not half the expenses; that’s all of them. Do you think your ex is now going to agree to your halving that amount in a new agreement? (I think it’s fair to share, but I don’t know the dynamics and history of your relationship with your ex. She may have different ideas!)</p>

<p>There is no need for you to send the money to your ex; you could pay it to the college directly, or pay it to your daughter so that she controls it. </p>

<p>You can require a yearly accounting of post-secondary educational expenses. (That said, my ex is supposed to give me a yearly accounting of a 529, as the amount of the state-mandated child support that he is supposed to pay goes into it for our son’s college benefit, rather than to me. I haven’t seen one of these in years from him, so… know that even if you require an accounting, you may not get it. I should have specified that the monthly statements would come to my house instead, just as I’d specified the deposits would be made automatically by direct deposit.)</p>

<p>I’m a big fan of knowing what I’m in for up front, and I say this as a divorced mom whose ex, who is a good guy, hasn’t shared ANY financial info with me re: college funding, except that he’s good for $X for next school year. Makes it hard for me to plan, and hard for me to manage S’s expectations. (I’ve told S he’ll get two years at the expensive private, and after that, I’ll have enough for him to go to our well-regarded Flagship State U, so he’ll at least be able to finish his degree.)</p>

<p>And yes, COA is cost of attendance, and will likely vary from what the college posts as their COA. Colleges will add in some for transportation, spending money, books, etc., so your D’s COA may be higher or lower than what is listed by the college.</p>

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<p>Thanks again. I afraid left out the very important 50% part of the decree wording. Sorry about that. “Father will pay for HALF OF all expenses…” </p>

<p>The thing is, it doesn’t say “father and mother,” just “father.” It’s already in a signed decree that is in the midst of being renegotiated. When I asked that we include “and mother” during our negotiations, she refused. I was shocked. Does this mean she doesn’t plan on contributing? Or that she just doesn’t want it in writing? It freaked me out a little about what her intentions are. And my lawyer said that because college clauses are rarely agreed to, trying to go back and change one that has already been agreed to (with the other issues we’re dealing with) would be very very unlikely to be successful. So my hope is to at least make my life a little easier by attempting to get her to agree to providing me with what I need so that I can pay.</p>

<p>But, Kmccrindle, I am going to give it a go with some of your wording combined with others’ suggestions. I suppose she could just take out the “equally” part but agree to the rest, which would be good. And Owlice, thanks for sharing your experience. You make some excellent points you make, and it’s helpful for me to get insight from someone who’s in the midst of what I might encounter later.</p>

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<p>It would seem that in the worst case scenario, you’re responsible for paying for 1/2 of full cost at your daughter’s primary (I guess that might mean flagship) state university. If that comes to $20K per year right now, grow that number (or whatever the correct number is for your state) by about 4% a year to come up with inflated costs in the intervening six years until your daughter starts college. Call it $26K/year. You’re then going to have to come up with $13K a year as your share for each of four years. </p>

<p>I don’t know the relative financial status of you vs. your ex. I don’t know what kinds of schools your D might consider, but given all those unknowns, it might be nice if a renegotiated support agreement specified:

  • That your ex would work with your D to submit a FAFSA (or any similar form that replaces it) by January 31st of each year beginning the year your D is a senior in college, or sooner than that if any of the colleges to which your D is applying has an earlier date.
  • That your ex will work with your D to submit a Profile form by the deadline published by any college to which your D is applying.
  • That with 30 days notice you will submit the non-custodial Profile form for any college to which your D is applying
  • That D will provide you with the copy of any financial aid letter by May 15th of each year for the college she will attend the following school year.
  • That you will directly pay the school for an amount equal to 1/4 of the tuition, room and board, and fees projected for your state’s flagship public university in advance of the funding deadline for each semester, unless your D’s merit scholarships, grants and other non-loan financial aid leave a balance less than this.
    -That you will send your daughter a direct check for 1/4 of the school’s estimated book costs one month before the start of each semester (so that she can buy them on-line if that is more economical.)</p>

<p>How your D, her mom, or her grandparents fund or don’t fund college is probably not your business. As long as D completes the FAFSA, you should be able to get a PLUS loan for any portion of the amount owed that you can’t pay for from savings. </p>

<p>If your D ends up going to her state University, you’ll pay half.
If your D ends up going to a private university, you’ll probably be paying much less than half unless your D gets some large merit awards or grants.<br>
If she chooses to go the CC route, you’re probably paying most of the cost.</p>

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<p>As one with way more experience in this area than any one soul should experience, could I suggest an entirely different approach - one based on maintaining your loving relationship with your child, and not law, and definitely not engaging with your ex. Reopening the terms of the agreement is a Pandora’s box. Do not engage.</p>

<p>To avoid emotional damage (you, your child), consider fulfilling the current agreement blindly. You don’t really need to know the details; haggling over the details will cause more anxiety (to your child) then it is worth. </p>

<p>Instead, consider just looking up the state tuition, and deposit the state tuition and fees (as agreed) in a money market account in your child’s name or directly to the college. Tell her you love her; if she pulls in more merit aid/scholarships, the balance is for her to spend on living expenses, a car, or a post college apartment. If she needs more, ask her to bring you details, but no promises. Leave it at that.</p>

<p>Your child is probably dreading a reopening custody agreement. If your child is like mine, when invited to keep the $$ left over from the college budget, she became a scholarship machine.</p>

<p>This late in the game, the custody wars need to end.</p>

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<p>toadstool, excellent suggestion, and where I’d have headed if only I could have seen my way there!</p>

<p>It sounds like the OP’s child is 11 or 12; kid may know nothing about the renegotiations.</p>

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<p>arabrab: *Thanks *for *all *those additional considerations. I really like that so many people on this site have so many different options and insights. I am going back to do some editing of my evolving proposed wording. I definitely like the deadlines, which just make things a little more clear for everyone. And I had no idea what those deadlines were or should be (such as Jan 1 and May 31). Invaluable for me.</p>

<p>toadstool: Good points to raise, for sure. However, my daughter is unaware that issues like college are being discussed (and we aren’t renegotiating our custody agreement right now, we are renegotiating some child support issues that haven’t been working well). While I’d LOVE to reduce conflict dramatically by simply plopping $13,000 each year (sounds heavenly), for 4 years, into a money market account for my daughter–regardless of my daughter’s actual cost of attendance–I just don’t make enough money to do that. I make a little less than $60,000 a year, so coming up with $13,000 a year or so is going to be tough, but I can do it. However, I most definitely won’t have it, en masse, to deposit into a bank account for her. It’s one of those “that would be awfully nice” scenarios, but it’s not my financial reality. Actually, my real hope is that getting some fairly specific wording that directs the mother to at least cooperate with me so that I know (1) what and (2) when the bills are going to hit will actually make things go more smoothly for my daughter when college arrives. She won’t end up stuck in the middle of parents who are squabbling over things like, “What’s the financial aid award? How much do I owe? Why haven’t you sent me the bills? Why haven’t you sent in the tuition yet? Didn’t you fill out that form?” What I have learned in the years we’ve been divorced is that the more specific and complete the decree is, the easier it is to follow, and the less arguments that ensue. Right now, it’s vague, leaves me with half of the expenses and her with none, and doesn’t even direct her to help me have the information I need to plan to pay the bills. I can’t force her to pay half, but I have hopes that I can at least get her to cooperate somewhat in the process.</p>

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<p>Allyson, you don’t need to get that information from your ex. You should get it from your daughter when the time comes as she will be an adult and it will be her responsibility. That’s a little hard to imagine right now, but it will be the case. You also have the option of dealing directly with the chosen college. Honestly, there’s no good reason to ask for any information from your ex. You have agreed to X. Great. That’s what you need to plan for. The rest is between you and your daughter. The financial award will come directly from the college to her and you should be provided with a copy. Also, as far as the actual bills, many colleges don’t give anyone too much notice. You do get the award letter around admission time, but the actual bill may only come with 30 days notice, so if that happens, don’t assume it’s your ex’s fault. I was absolutely stunned at how short notice one has from the actual bill to its due date. Although, as I said, you do get the award somewhat earlier for the freshman year and can make a good guess from that. For subsequent semesters/years, count yourself lucky if the school gives significant notice, but don’t expect it and don’t assume your ex is at fault.</p>

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<p>I agree with toadstool and zoosermom. Minimize the drama surrounding college - there’s enough drama with college planning, applications, testing, and admissions as it is. Make it clear to D what you’re willing to pay (when she’s old enough to have this be relevant to her), set aside what you can ahead of time, and let go of needing to know how (or if) your ex is going to fund her share.</p>

<p>I would, however, encourage you to spell out that financial aid forms be filed in a timely manner and that both parents and D work towards maximizing all available aid. This should be reassuring to ex in that it’s to her benefit as well as yours that D gets scholarships/grants/etc.</p>

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<p>Well… she may or may not be an adult when the time comes. A lot can happen in six years, or even one, like dropping out of high school to go to college, as a certain boy spawn I know is doing!! :D</p>