<p>I posted here earlier about this. Now, I recently signed up for full SAT prep course with Princeton Review starting in January. I paid a lot of money, and I'm a little worried its a scam. Is Princeton Review a scam? They said they would mail me something within 2-3 business days ... its been that long and they still haven't sent whatever it is I need. I'm worried!</p>
<p>Princeton review is reliable. But if you don't hear anything back from them, give them a call just to double check that they received all of your information.</p>
<p>PR is not a scam. They are very reputable. My son took a prep course with a local firm (not PR) and the first thing they sent him was an evaluative practice test. He had to take the test (I guess it was a mini-SAT) and fax it back to see where he needed the most help. Perhaps that is what they are sending you. Maybe you should call them.</p>
<p>EDIT : Crossed posts with Carolyn.</p>
<p>k... thats good. I hear they are but it just seems so fishy and they seem almost unreachable being this big company and the only contact I see that I have is through the website. What is their guarantee again? 200 points higher SAT score or you get your money back lol?</p>
<p>Masha, PR is not a scam. My D had a PR tutor in lieu of classes--her schedule was too irregular with Dance commitments for a class--and it helped her very well. But I don't think they can promise a 200 point improvement...though my D got 180. In fact, if the initial score is over 1400, they <em>can't</em> get a 200 point improvement.</p>
<p>Wait a minute DAD, the new SAT score is 2400. My last two kids did the Princeton Review class. They had to because they would not prep on their own. It is really helpful. They give 4 proctored exams throughout the course and helpful hints and some help during the other classes.My sons scores did not dramatically improve during the course but did so when the actual test was give. He went up 100 points in the PSAT's as we did the PR before the PSAT.The PR has been especially helpful for my youngest. We were very worried about the new SAT and PR really knows about the new test and helps the kids prepare for it. I am very pleased and my feeling is I did all I could to have them prepare.Your child's score will be higher than it would have been.</p>
<p>This is probably why many Universities weigh GPA so much more than SATs, and some are even dropping the SAT as a requirement; how reliable can the score be if everyone is taking it 5 times and spending tons of money to prep for the test?</p>
<p>I took a Princeton Review course jr year... didn't help me one bit. They told me to memorize like 1000 vocab words, and I didn't have the time to do that with all my other stuff, both school work wise and EC wise going on.</p>
<p>I think there's 2 main things...
1. it's a lot easier to raise a math score than a verbal score
2. the lower you start, the more room for improvement you have. It's a lot easier to go from 1050 to 1200 than 1350 to 1500.</p>
<p>No, no! PR is not a bunch of scam artists. Yet, PR and scam artists have one thing in common: the victims will rarely admit to have been taken. While organized classes can be helpful for a limited number of people, the GENERIC classes ($800-$1200) are not very helpful for most students and MOST DEFINITELY NOT worth the price of admission. The generic classes are taught by mediocre and ill-prepared tutors whose sole qualification is to have taken the SAT and the same substandard course you'll take . If you plan to use PR, Kaplan of one their ilk, spend a bit more money and use a private tutor (like TheDad did) whose qualifications have been checked. </p>
<p>There are reputable tutors but they are mostly individuals or owners of small companies. </p>
<p>Here's the bottomline:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Regarding the new SAT, they do NOT know anything more than anybody else. The books PR and Kaplan published this summer were pure garbage. They have NO special contacts with ETS and can only speculate as to what will be on the post-2005 test. If your objective to take the PR is to learn about the new SAT, buy the new $20.00 Official TCB book, sign up for the $60.00 online tutoring system, and you will be 1,000% better off. Does not get simpler than that!</p></li>
<li><p>The PR's guarantee for a score improvement is ... pure baloney. It is not a money-back at all, only the promise to let you take the same class again. Woot! What a deal! </p></li>
<li><p>The test used by PR for their original diagnosis is a fraud -way harder than the real thing to under-estimate your current score. The rest of their tests are in-house developed tests, fraught with approximations, speculations, and errors. If taking four tests under scrutiny is important to you, get some of the official tests published by ETS/TCB, sit your kid at the kitchen table, and open a bottle of the finest wine while you administer the test. It will be better and more pleasant. And after that, you can yourself an official proctor!</p></li>
<li><p>You can ONLY use official SAT tests to ascertain your level pre- and post-classes. The PSAT should not be used in this context.</p></li>
<li><p>Preparing for the SAT is not about paying a company to discover SECRET tricks and strategies. All the "tricks" have been published for years and can be acquired for 15 to 20 dollars. Paying $1,000 for being babysitted -reading welll-known material and taking 3-4 tests- for 30 hours is simply insane.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>My recommendation: talk to your friends and try to find 2-4 families interested in pooling resources. With that money, arrange your own study group, buy all the material, and hire a couple of specialized tutors. Your kids will thank you and you'll save a bundle.</p>
<p>We have no prep companies where we live and if we did I wouldn't pay it. But I did as a parent invest in prep books last summer. Until last year, I had no idea the value of the tests in college admissions. I remembered my own experience of taking the SAT in the fall of my senior year with no prep or psat, taking a few "college boards" around the same time, applying to 2 schools and getting in to both of them. USC and McGill. That was in the mid-60s. In a way I am glad of my ignorance until the last minute. My son decided he wanted to raise his score from last May, stayed home from the school the day before the test and did the 10 Real SAT practice tests(some student on this forum had suggested the day off and the 10's). His score the next morning rose by 150 points. He was thrilled. I was amazed that just doing a few practices could make such a difference. Don't pay a company for results. Let your kid just practice a bit. Unless they are motivated to do so, no amount of money will help. Spend the money on lessons and travel, summer camp and whatever it is that your child, growing person, loves to do. </p>
<p>I view the tests as evil, but because I have been on this forum for over a year I realize their importance in the college acceptance process. As an educator, I have suggested at our school what Xiggi has proposed: having a study group for our juniors on Saturdays before the test for those kids who are interested. The school has ordered the materials for them.</p>
<p>Sorry, BHG, I was thinking on the 1600 point scale. Hmm...let's see...D <em>barely</em> could have improved her score 200 points if you added her SAT I plus SAT II Writing scores together.</p>
<p>I'll plead to one moderate count of hypocrisy: I don't believe in Test Prep and think it's another corrosive part of the process and that it's one more marker that favors the more affluent. But, as I've told my D about other situations, you play by the rules of the game until the rules are changed (or the game) and not using Test Prep when applying to top end schools seemed to be a case of unilateral disarmament.</p>
<p>CC was part of my education. I initially thought that D's first score, a 1400, was fine. It was only after learning about score recentering and then seeing the first cycle of ED/EA carnage two years ago that I adjusted my attitude and suggested to D, "1540 or bust!" At that time, Columbia was at the top of the list and anyone who thinks that going from a 1400 to 1540 was nonsense should look at the responses now and in April.</p>
<p>As Xiggi notes, the individual tutor is more expensive. But it also guarantees that <em>all</em> the time is spent on things that your kid needs. One of the major things my D needed is constant reinforcement that she didn't have to get the answer the <em>right</em> way and that selective guessing was good (someone had told her it wasn't and we parents obviously didn't know anything). She also needed to work on aggressiveness with respect to time management and somewhere along the line the lightbulb went off and she went from 7-8 unanswered per section to none. What she didn't need was much, if any, coaching in the actual material...it was almost all on how to take the test.</p>
<p>That said, everyone should remember that the SAT is not any measure of worth, that all it measures is how well you take the SAT.</p>
<p>" . . . not using Test Prep when applying to top end schools seemed to be a case of unilateral disarmament."</p>
<p>"It's a free country," and you're entitled to spend your money this way if you wish.</p>
<p>I share your ideological objections to test prep but also think that it's a scam in the following sense: we really don't have good information about the typical or average payoffs, just the possible payoffs. What are your odds of improving your score by so-many points given a particular type of prep course? What are your odds of improving your test score if you repeat the test without taking a prep course? (I remember my own substantial improvment way back when there wasn't a prep industry to speak of and what I gained the second time was just from the experience of having taken the test once before.)</p>
<p>Only anecdotal evidence exaggerates the success of these programs, because of the self-selection of those who offer testimonials. And so gullible, or worried, or ambitious students and parents shell out money thinking that at the very least the prep course "can't hurt," while pointing to the success stories that they've heard about. They have the money, so why not buy this particular lottery ticket?</p>
<p>My kids were "lucky," I guess that they didn't need to prep for the tests. But they were tested on SAT from the 7th or 8th grade for various talent searches. They didn't have anything more to learn about the tests and so did well on them the first time they really counted for college. By temperament and their particular choices of colleges, they didn't feel compelled to try again to improve their scores hoping for another 30 point boost. And they did fine. They devoted their time in high school to more productive things, as well as to recreation and other activities, rather than prepping for tests. Of course, this is just anecdotal evidence, too. But I think it's the kind of choice that many students make when they're not driven to perfecting their scores on these artificial tests.</p>
<p>Let me just shed some light on the quality of PR instructors. Prior to my Son's testing cycle, I thought it would be neat to become a SAT instructor. I could help my son and save money too (that asian save money thingy).</p>
<p>They offered me the job @ $12/hr (Only the class time), and 8 hours of training @ $5/hr, and $50 bonus if I finish the schedule.</p>
<p>Do you think they would get good quality instructors to ruin their 1/2 weekend day for $36 ? Basically they are looking for a group baby sitter.</p>
<p>The best advice I would give is the self decipline. Get the real tests from the CB, and other test material. Study the material and take those tests as if they were real - that is time them. You would learn the pace for each section.</p>
<p>The only advantage of a test prep class is that you are 'forced' to do the work. But, if you don't prepare for the test outside of the class, the effectiveness may be only marginal. As Xiggi noted, their initial test is unrealistically hard, and final test is easy. That way they can show that you have made improvement. Few lessons from a private tutor might be better - you can concentrate on weaknesses.</p>
<p>My daughter took a Sylvan SAT prep class (geographically closest to where we live) after scoring in the mid-1200's (or equivalent) in the PSAT. It seemed like she did the assigned homework, but after the course she dropped to the upper 1100's in the SAT. I wasn't happy with her verbal score so I made her study a top 100 vocabulary list on her own for the next sitting. Of course, her verbal then dropped by 10 but her math increased by 130 (with no prep work done). So for us, I felt that Sylvan was a waste of money and sometimes it just comes down to the questions on the particular test fitting in with your strong suit.</p>
<p>Our high school offers a prep class in the summer. It's 3 hours/day for 8 days. About 30 students in each class (there are morning and afternoon sessions). Cost is $75, but that includes the Real SAT book and one other, so it doesn't really cost much more than buying the 2 books. The class is taught by an AP Math and AP English teacher. They've been doing this for several years, and seem to know what they're doing. They do a lot of practice tests, then go over them. For students who can't seem to motivate themselves to practice, this is a great class.</p>
<p>You might talk to your principal and see if this is an option for your school.</p>
<p>Mackinaw, I think the odds of improvement vary wildly with the student; ergo, no blanket stats that are meaningful can be offered.</p>
<p>While I am not Xiggi--only one of us is--I think I could probably look at a sample SAT test by a given students, looking at the types of errors, and after talking to a student for half an hour give you some estimate of what the prospects are...but that's a pretty time-intensive process. It's a lot easier to go from 1000 to 1200 than it is from 1400 to 1600. And as with many things, motivation counts for a lot. Telling a student "You gotta do this" isn't sufficient...the desire has got to come from within the student.</p>
<p>I've heard consistently negative things about Sylvan from people who used them.</p>
<p>"I think the odds of improvement vary wildly with the student; ergo, no blanket stats that are meaningful can be offered."</p>
<p>Nor have they been offered. That's really my point. There is no evidence at all that the typical student taking the typical prep course by Kaplan or PR is going to get his or her money's worth, whether that student's previous SAT was an 1100 or a 1350.</p>
<p>Since the (old) SAT math test only basic algebra and geometry, the questions have to be posed such that even smart kids will miss them if they hurry. Otherwise, 800's would be easy to obtain by anyone with a strong math aptitude. </p>
<p>I am a firm believer in test prep, but it doesn't have to be a 6-8 week classroom course which cost $800+. If kids are independent workers, it is easy to prep on one's own, by buying (or, borrowing from a library) a couple of test prep books. Of course, the SAT book form CB is needed, but it does not give solutions. Thus, other books by Kaplan, Princeton Review, Barrons, ARCO, and the like, can be extremely useful. Two to three test prep books can be had on Amazon for $30-40, which is a rather small investment given the possible payoff in increased scores.</p>
<p>TheDad is probably correct, in that is a LOT easier to go from a 500 math score to a 600 because all one has to do is eliminate the simple mistakes to raise the score appropriately. That being said, however, a 600 looks much, much better on any college app. Similarly, a 1450 would look better than a 1400 on many highly selective apps because at that point the app starts to move towards/above the median, which can be (may be) a psychological threshold for adcoms or reader (what reader wants to to push an app that brings down their median?). Cornell, for example, has a middle 50th score range of 1420.</p>
<p>After talking with Xiggi and interviewing a high priced "individual" tutor, my daughter decided to work with a low priced tutor on the area she most needed help with - math.
The math tutor has been EXCELLENT in helping her identify where her weaknesses in math lie and filling in the blanks of some of the skills she either didn't learn or doesn't remember. He is also helping her with her current math class as needed. He is a high school math teacher during the day.</p>
<p>She has been working on her own with the College Board new SAT book (which I recommend) to prepare for the verbal and writing sections. For a small fee (I think $60) the College Board has a section on its web site where you can get explanations of the answers and have your essays graded. Every weekend, she is trying to write at least one timed essay. Her main concern is getting better at being able to write a full essay in that time.I don't think there is much you can do to prepare for the new reading section - you either know how to read and comprehend information or you don't. But she is also doing the timed reading section on her own as well. </p>
<p>We're waiting to see how she did on the PSATs before deciding whether she needs to do anything else. I personally think it is going to be much harder to prep for the new verbal section - it is all reading, no analogies - and the essay section of the new writing section. Studying vocabulary lists aren't going to help as much as when there were analogies. The math can still (hopefully) be prepped for but as I said, you either know how to read and write or you don't. A review of grammar, of course, can help with the multiple choice section of the new writing section.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread, since S is starting 9 hours with a Princeton Review tutor today. He is a hs junior and his school has them take the January SAT for their first shot (even though it is changing). Since he goes to boarding school, this is the best shot we have at tutoring. He did the diagnostic test a few weeks ago. I'll let you all know how much he improves (or not) in the January SAT. I hope whoever said the diagnostic tests are not representative is right! His score was OK, but needs to improve for the schools he is considering. I spoke to the young man who will be tutoring him, and I have high hopes. We'll see. Will keep you posted. Karen</p>