<p>If you don’t mind the upstate NY weather, my vote would go to Rochester- an excellent, and very under-rated school, imo.</p>
<p>OP wrote:
This is not even a close call, come on… has fiscal irreponsibility evidenced by the recent recession not taught you something about over-spending? I might remind you of the Krueger-Dale study that showed that Ivy accepted students who matriculated to State Flagships or other (non Top 20) Top 50 privates (for a variety of reasons) made within $10,000 over their working career as compared to those students who DID matriculate at Ivies.</p>
<p>It is completely irrelevant to compare mid career salaries of students->workers at X University vs. Y university if said students were not all accepted to X first. You must control for student/worker quality. The University itself adds nothing (well, less than $10k over a lifetime of work).</p>
<p>The lengths that some people will go (and pay) for marginal gains in perceived prestige is both astonishing and depressing. DunninLA is absolutely correct here: this is not even a close call. As an “investment”, $200,000 more for NYU-Stern over Toronto is about as big a waste of resources as I can imagine. The fact that it would place a strain on the finances of the OP’s family also makes it an irresponsible, and very selfish, choice.</p>
<p>Wow, everyone that I talked to in real life seems to be in favor of Stern, while the opinion on CC is overwhelmingly for Toronto. </p>
<p>When I said “strain” my family’s finances, I mean that my parents might have to live without their annual cruise ship voyage every year, and my mom will have to start cooking at home more. Or at least, that’s the impression they gave me. </p>
<p>Right now, my counselor and some of my family friends seems to believe that a Stern education is indeed worth the extra 200k, and I hope my family won’t ultimately be disappointed that I believed them.</p>
<p>Have you made your decision yet?</p>
<p>I agree with everyone here on CC, the recession happened because people couldn’t reign in spending and continued to borrow money. If you cannot afford your expensive dream school, I would go to an affordable public school.</p>
<p>Your parents’ opinion is more important than your friends’ opinion, unless your friends want to pay for it.</p>
<p>Re Alex’s declaration in # 35, </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>this is extremely unrealistic. That is an annual rate of return in the mid-20% range. </p>
<p>Using the Dow Jones as a comparison, its gain over the past ten years has been……zero. Hopefully that is an anachronism, but it shows the folly of forecasting high returns for year after year after.</p>
<p>“Wow, everyone that I talked to in real life seems to be in favor of Stern, while the opinion on CC is overwhelmingly for Toronto”</p>
<p>There is a lot of NYU hatred here. Some of it cause a lot of kids probably overvalue NYU, people underestimate the impact of debt etc. The b School there is really quite good AFAIK, and its not like you are talking about 200k in debt as a theater major. Not to diss NYU theater majors. Also there is a reflex assumption that a 200k difference in cost means 200k in debt, which doesnt seem to be the case. If parents have the 200k saved, and want to spend it on you having a great 4 years, I don’t see why others have call to get on your case. </p>
<p>One thing that isn’t clear to me (did I just miss it) is what are your career plans? Go back to Canada, or work on Wall Street, or other? I think the comparative advantage, career wise, will depend on that. </p>
<p>Also, you should go see NYU before making the choice. Where it is is exciting, it has some very fine offerings, but its not exactly a small LAC by any means, as others here have said.</p>
<p>" I might remind you of the Krueger-Dale study that showed that Ivy accepted students who matriculated to State Flagships or other (non Top 20) Top 50 privates (for a variety of reasons) made within $10,000 over their working career as compared to those students who DID matriculate at Ivies."</p>
<p>is there a link to the full study somewhere, all I have found is the abstract. I would like to see their methdology for ensuring that the rationales for the accepted students choosing one over the other didnt have an impact on outcomes. I mean I could imagine that most of the Ivy accepted kids who chose state flagships were more financially astute, which could translate into higher incomes down the road. </p>
<p>Also I would like to see how they normalized for choice of major/career. Which cuts both ways - lots of Ivies to Wall Street, but also lots to NGO’s and other goody goody low paying areas.</p>
<p>Brookylnborndad, I do not hate NYU, I just feel that business is a field where you can be successful at lots of schools instead of just a select few schools. NYU is a great school but if there is a public school that also excels at business, it may be a financially sound decision to go there too. For example, in the recent BusinessWeek Rankings, NYU is #12 and schools above it include Virginia, Texas, and Michigan. And immediately below it includes schools like UNC, Miami University, and Indiana.</p>
<p>and USNWR rankings are always gospel??? :)</p>
<p>Anyway, those schools are not the subject of the choice UToronto is. I do not know U Toronto, as I think I said above. But thats the choice before us. I do not know how UT would compare to NYU in getting a job on Wall Street, IF thats the direction the OP wants to head in. </p>
<p>I am not disagreeing with those suggesting that other options could be good. Its the “Dont go to NYU period” attitude I was referring to. Things like this
"NYU doesn’t deserve to be anyone’s dream school. "</p>
<p>Maybe the hate is merited. But thats not just a citation of USNWR rankings.</p>
<p>"the recession happened because people couldn’t reign in spending and continued to borrow money. "</p>
<p>I think it happened cause we adopted stimulative fiscal policy at the height of a boom, cause of inadequate regulation of the financial sector, as well, and in fact more than cause of imprudent borrowers. And someone making a conscious choice to bet 200 k on an particular college, 200k that they have saved for that purpose, is not the same as someone buying a house zero down, a house priced double or more what it had been two years before, and counting on it going up in value to refinence an option ARM.</p>
<p>@ Redroses - Most schools, for kids who can pay, are not as selective as many think. Money talks.</p>
<p>Your parents’ opinion is more important than your friends’ opinion, unless your friends want to pay for it.</p>
<p>This quote should be on the top of every forum. :)</p>
<p>There are too many kids who won’t even CONSIDER more affordable schools simply because their friends won’t be impressed and/or their friends might even disparage the choice.</p>
<p>Of course, 4 years later when the friends are frantically trying to figure out how to pay back their big debts (if they have them), while you’re able to put your paycheck to current and future uses, the more prudent student will be laughing all the way to the bank.</p>
<p>I just feel that business is a field where you can be successful at lots of schools instead of just a select few schools.</p>
<p>Very true…</p>
<p>and just looking at resulting salaries doesn’t tell the whole story. A salary of $150k in one area of the country will give you more discretionary dollars than a salary of $200k in another.</p>
<p>“and USNWR rankings are always gospel???”</p>
<p>Compared to BusinessWeek, which is the ranking that pierre0913 was referring to, USNWR IS the gospel.</p>
<p>“NYU doesn’t deserve to be anyone’s dream school.”</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, it is very true FA is crucial to determining college decisions (which is extremely unfortunate. British students pay no more than £5,000 a year to attend Oxford/Cambridge! Why do we have to pay so much to attend our schools??!), but to dismiss NYU as completely undeserving of its excellent academic reputation because of poor financial aid is completely unjustified. Yes, our financial aid sucks. It is one of the very very few things that NYU is bad with. Look at how strong all of our programs, not just Stern/Tisch, are, and tell me how it does not deserve, financial aid aside, to be a “dream school.” Our FA is one of the few things that separates us from the top, top schools.</p>
<p>I’m an NYU student and am disgruntled by the fact that people who would obviously love to attend have to turn the school down because they can’t afford it. It’s very annoying because I know the money that WOULD be handed out as FA is being allocated to unnecessary expansion projects to Governor’s Island, Brooklyn, etc. Maybe we should stop expanding, save money and as a result, give out more aid… hm…</p>
<p>“Your parents’ opinion is more important than your friends’ opinion, unless your friends want to pay for it.”</p>
<p>This is to an extent true since the parents are paying, but keep in mind that it’s the students that are attending. Taking on $100,000 of undergraduate debt is absolutely ridiculous, but it’s not likely that the cheapest option for students is always the best option…</p>
<p>“Taking on $100,000 of undergraduate debt is absolutely ridiculous, but it’s not likely that the cheapest option for students is always the best option…”</p>
<p>My stance on it is that a student should have the choice if his parents or himself can pay for a school. However, the choice with loans is never the right choice and if all of the choices involve taking out loans, then the cheapest option becomes the best choice since it minimizes the loans being taken out.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against NYU and it should be a dream school for people. However, some people have no means to pay for NYU and they should not go there if they have cheaper options that don’t include loans (and options that are often pretty good too). However some people want to go on to graduate school and the money loaned to pay for NYU could be loaned for graduate school instead. I hope you understand where I’m coming from.</p>
<p>I would even say that a certain amount of loans is okay–up to about $20,000-$25,000–the amount you can get for Stafford loans. But beyond that, it’s nightmarish for young people to try to pay that kind of money back.</p>
<p>yeah federal loans are definitely ok, but beyond that private loans are scary and you don’t want to deal with that</p>
<p>“NYU doesn’t deserve to be anyone’s dream school.”
**
Mom2collegekids, it is very true FA is crucial to determining college decisions (which is extremely unfortunate. British students pay no more than £5,000 a year to attend Oxford/Cambridge! Why do we have to pay so much to attend our schools??!), but to dismiss NYU as completely undeserving of its excellent academic reputation because of poor financial aid is completely unjustified. Yes, our financial aid sucks. **</p>
<p>OK…I’ll amend my quote to…</p>
<p>NYU doesn’t deserve to be ANYONE’s dream school who cannot pay full freight without big loans. Happy now?</p>
<p>But, to further explain my original quote. I think it’s scandalous that a school that claims to have such a top business school hasn’t figured out how to invest its endowment in a way to fund low income students.</p>