@NEPatsgirl, Skidmore is part of the [Husdon Mohawk Association](http://cmsauthor.skidmore.edu/registrar/hmschools.cfm) which allows cross-registration at quite a few schools. Your daughter may be interested in that.
I’m following this thread and hoping for a fantastic visit for your D, @NEPatsGirl. Fingers crossed!
Belichick would take a local CC and turn it into an Ivy at a fraction of the cost. That said, “On to Skidmore.”
I don’t really see Skidmore as that much of a step down from Smith as an overall school. But that is from our experience evaluating it as a general LAC, not purely from the science angle. (D thought she wanted to be an art major at the time we looked at it. Now she’s bio, go figure!)
Honestly I think either Skidmore or UMass sound pretty great given the options and finances. Especially the elite science program at UMass. Is one cheaper for you than the other? As parents who lives paycheck-to-paycheck and have 1/5 of what you do in retirement account for two people (I know! Terrible!) I really feel your pain. We are scrimping and selling possessions on Craigslist to come up with our college EFC. I REALLY REALLY hope you can manage this without going into debt yourself, or at least not very much. Your D is taking out the max subsidized loans, and doing work-study, right? Sounds like she will probably go to a PhD program for grad school, which is good.
FWIW Mount Holyoke has some forensics classes as well, so that would be available to her if she was at UMass. (My D is interested in forensic entemology.)
Fingers crossed that your visit to NY will help clarify things. Hugs to you. Keep us updated!
I will just throw in a cautionary note based on my own experience. My ex promised a certain amount, which he paid for our child’s freshman year. After that, he came up with reasons not to pay. My state does not have a statute for payment of higher education expenses; child support (when he paid it that is) ended at age 18. I had no recourse. Your daughter’s father seems to place conditions on his support related to his expectations of your behavior (such as how much you will pay). This is untenable, as he can change his mind if he thinks you are not dancing to his tune. My advice is to send your daughter only where she can make it through if her father pulls financial support.
Edited to add - I would suggest a quick visit to UMass Amherst to talk with some science faculty or the BioTap advisor if you can - if your D is basing her “too big” idea off one general tour. The 5-college consortium is a great thing - she can take many classes at Smith, Amherst, Mount Holyoke and Hampshire College for the price of UMass tuition.
@Snowdog has given really good advice. You need to look out for yourself and your future too.
Life is unpredictable so do what you can to make yourself financially secure too. If the father wants to help please get it in writing so that you won’t have a problem down the road. If he backs out your daughter will be forced to transfer out of her dream school. I hope all this works out for both of you.
Actually, he would take a local CC and turn it into a Super Bowl winning NFL football team. He went to Wesleyan. Ha!
My point was more that he would think outside the box and optimize the heck out of the situation. If the best way to win was taking risks, he’d do that. If the best way to win was penny pinching, he’d do that. It’s different every time and each situation calls for a careful analysis of the opponent (the father? the cost?) like nobody else can do. Not shoot from the hip obvious.
In this situation, I like that they are visiting Skidmore and doing a careful analysis to find the right solution. I like that they haven’t totally ruled out Smith. I even liked that NEPatsGirl considered taking the cheapskate to court.
Think it through, analyze, optimize, agonize, and solve.
Skid more–get class schedule, talk to profs in science
UMass–definitely talk to profs and kids in the Honors program. Find out if her entry level courses will be huge, or separated in Honors classes.
After the research, should be easier to make decision.
Good luck! It sounds like you have some good solutions. And good luck with the wedding (another of your daughters?).
I would suggest two things:
-Let Smith financial aid know you have concerns (i.e. appeal their award decision).
-Figure out what each you and your daughter’s father will agree to pay for her college. Document it and have your signatures witnessed. I would sign 8 separate documents: one for each semester, agreeing to $5,000 per semester from him and $3,000 per semester from you, or whatever it works out to be. If each contract is for less than $7,000 per party, the contract can be enforced in small-claims court. You would be likely to actually go to Small Claims, since it is relatively easy and is really more shaming the other party into keeping their agreement, and giving recourse for collection (it does not feel as adversarial, or as much of a “big deal”). Don’t think of it as part of the support; think of it as a whole new agreement, or contract.
What if the dad becomes disabled or dies? You may eventually collect the debt from his estate, but it won’t be within the window of time required to make tuition payments- first probate, then presenting the debt, etc.
I think it’s crazy to come up with a plan for your D that requires a court-order. She’s got great options; she understands the mom’s financial situation, why take on a burden that is highly likely to turn sour before the 8 semesters have been paid???
And a good lawyer can get some private- party contract, drawn up by lay-people, executed in front of a notary, ripped apart with less than two hours work. Coercion, claims that the dad was taking antidepressants and didn’t know what he was signing…
Small claims court? Like the mom doesn’t have enough on her plate???
I suspect that there is less than 2% chance this happens over the next 4 years and over a 98% chance that it doesn’t.
IMHO, it is absurd to consider this type of contingency now. Let’s keep our eye on the ball.
There are plenty of good reasons to rule Smith out, but mathematically, this isn’t one of them.
ItsJustSchool - who would enforce such a ‘contract’? The daughter? What is the consideration?
Not all states allow small claims amounts that high- $7000. Some limits are much lower.
MA limit is $7,000. The contract would be between the two parents. The parent would enforce the contract. Likely would not have to, just having it be enforceable is often enough to “remind” the other party of his/her promise.
Sorry, but I just think this dad looks unreliable. If he were truly reliable, he wouldn’t be doing all of this whining. The mom needs to help the kid find a place that the mom & kid can afford without whiny dad’s help.
But,ItsJustSchool, there is still no consideration for the contract. “I promise to pay $5000” For what? Your promise to pay $3000? Okay, I won’t pay my $5000 so you don’t pay your $3000. There is nothing to enforce. I promise to cut your grass on Saturday. I don’t. What are you going to do? I had no obligation to cut your grass, and you can’t make me.
Why would anyone sign such an agreement anyway? I can understand the father wanting the daughter to go to Smith. Daughter needs to say “I won’t/can’t go unless I know you will pay. I will only go if you prepay the entire $40k.” That won’t happen. I’ve been there, done that. Promises never kept. No way would this father ever sign 8 promissory notes because his word is good enough. Yeah, right.
@twoinanddone, look at @happymomof1’s alternative: simply not to count on any assistance from the father. The father has been successfully co-parenting for the girl’s entire lifetime, and wants the best for her. If OP will not trust him, and therefore the DD is set to take a path he would not prefer, I would think he would want to put it in writing to increase trust and help her to decide to do what he thinks is best for her.
I think the father sounds like someone with good intentions who is unreliable at following through. I could be wrong. Sometimes it really helps if we write down our intentions and sign them- then when we are wavering we can be reminded. I think these are all good people with good intentions for the daughter. Breaking it into smaller chunks makes it much easier, both to remind of the details of the promise and to threaten (and follow through in the unlikely event that one has to) with garnishing wages.
Just an idea to get from the “don’t count on him at all” school of thought to allowing him the benefit of the doubt that he will do what he can and what is best for his daughter.
Each of us imagines how the father would react. I certainly don’t know. If my advice is useful, use it. If you find it preposterous, ignore it.
There may very well be consideration in the OP’s case. Her state extends child support payments through college in certain situations. That gives the OP a claim against father for support. If father agrees to pay a portion of the college expenses in exchange for the OP not pursuing child support beyond the age of 18, that would be an enforceable agreement supported by consideration.
Of course, the bigger issue would be enforcing the agreement if father reneged. The OP could file suit in small claims court (she may have to waive a portion of the unpaid debt if the total amount father owes exceeds the jurisdictional limit of the small claims court), but even if she obtained a favorable judgment, she would still have to enforce it. That’s not always easy to do.
Snowdog’s advice was solid.
Have you considered having your daughter read this thread so she can hear it from others re the risks and rewards?
You clearly are looking out for her and checking out all the angles.
A kid ready to go to college will have a good idea if their other parent is flaky or not where it just sounds like sour grapes/needless anti-dad noise coming from the primary parent.
She needs to come to terms with the risk of going to a high price place and having to leave for lack of funds.
Best to you today!
The father’s EFC is $25,000, the OP’s $5,000 for Smith. She is willing to pay hers, he wants her to pay much more than that and pay less himself. He has expensive hobbies, might get married again, have more children. All she can reasonably expect from him is continuation of child support and whatever else he is willing to contribute is icing on the cake. So based on that she can say I can’t afford Smith. And D has other great options.
I sure hope Skidmore works out.
Is bio-dad willing to be the sole co-signer on the loans he wants D to take out? I’d make that a requirement if you agree to his plan.
I’d also make D explain why Smith (which makes retirement very difficult for you) is preferable to Skidmore. In that context. If the reason is proximity to the boyfriend, that isn’t good enough.
It’s like Mom is the only one ever expected to make sacrifices.
I really hope she loves Skidmore!!!
I guess I’d try to negotiate with bio-dad if Smith turns out to be what she fights for. Would he pay 15K, you stick to 5K, and D take out 10K loans, that he co-signs for? It’s not your fault his income has messed up the amount of aid she would get from Smith if he didn’t exist. It’s his, and he doesn’t want to pay his fair share.