Experienced parents and employers!

Parents Forum
1

<p>Ok, all you more experienced ones out there....</p>

<p>There is a difference of opinion in our house about an LAC degree vs. a degree from a major U. DS plans to complete his undergrad and go on to law school...BUT we all know about the best laid plans... If he ends up in the workforce with just a bachelor's degree, will he lose most ties for jobs he applies for if he has a degree from a well thought of regional LAC and the other candidate has a degree from a nationally know Big 10 state school? Not a top tier school, but a good state U? Do employers take the trouble to check out your school if they are not familiar with it? </p>

<p>Also...is there a benefit to the Big University "experience" when it comes to employability? Would an employer look more favorably on someone who has had that experience rather than the more sheltered (read: less diverse) LAC experience?</p>

2

<p>If you seek employment outside of anything closely related to academia, I do believe Big Universities are more widely recognized. I have also heard some people lament that they had to work harder at small LACs, and then their GPAs are compared with graduates of schools with wider name recognition where students were graded more on multiple choice tests and the like instead of more intensive writing and papers. I went to a state university and have a child at a LAC - I think the LAC is more demanding but that he will benefit from it. The emphasis on class participation and lengthier written assignments will make him a better communicator (including at the job interview!).</p>

<p>Since we can't predict what paths our kids will take, my fall back position is that your son should go where he feels he'll be happiest. Too many unpredictable variables at play.</p>

3

<p>Newbiemom: It could depend on where he looks for employment. Here in CA, the symbol of footloosedness, employers see job applicants from all over the country and graduates of all sorts of colleges and universities, so it might not matter much unless he attends a very unknown LAC. Elsewhere, it might be different.</p>

4

<p>Thanks! He is going to be a political science major and is considering Albion College (Gerald Ford Institute of Public Policy), Michigan State (James Madison program) , Grand Valley State honors college, and Kalamazoo College. Any freedback on any of those?</p>

5

<p>newbiemom,</p>

<p>there are two things to think about. yes, (#1) is "what door does this degree open?" and that can be very related to national name recognition value. On the other hand, there is (#2): have I learned how to write, think, present my ideas out loud & and defend them? Have I found & followed my intellectual passions? </p>

<p>With respect to #2, a kid may be better off at a regionally well regarded LAC...</p>

6

<p>Here are my thoughts. State universities do sometimes attract more job recruiters to campus than LACs BUT (and it's a big but) you also have to compete with a larger number of people to catch a recruiter's eye at a large U.</p>

<p>I think what matters most in terms of getting a job - even an entry level one - is what you can offer to the employer - the skills you have, the back ground and experience you have, how well you fit with what they are looking for. Thus, it's not so much the "name" on your application that matters but the qualifications you bring to the table and your ability to sell yourself.</p>

<p>Another question is where your son will probably want to work after graduation. I'm guessing that since he is looking only at Michigan schools that he probably wants to stay in the midwest after graduation. </p>

<p>OK, let's look at the schools on your son's list. Kalamazoo is exceptional in its focus on making sure graduates have hands on experience when they get out of school. They do an EXCEPTIONAL job of making sure students have internships. In fact, that's one of the unique pluses of the K-Plan. They strive to have their liberal arts grads come out of school with "real world" experience. Most of those internships are with employers in the midwest. Thus, graduating from Kalamazoo, your son will probably have a resume filled with actual real world experience AND have already established some contacts in the business world. </p>

<p>Michigan State does have a recognized name in the midwest but it is less well known outside of the midwest. On both coasts, U of Michigan is the school that is going to possibly impress employers, not Michigan State. However, Michigan State does have a strong business program so your son could possibly minor in business there. Michigan State does also have a decent pre-law program but really it is no better than Kalamazoo or Albion.</p>

<p>Albion is a small school that has an excellent political science program. They do a top notch job of getting their grads into law school. They are also great at providing personalized attention. That means your son will get to know his teachers well there which could translate into better recommendations and even referrals for jobs after graduation.</p>

<p>I do not know enough about Grand Valley to comment (in fact, this is the first I have heard of it).</p>

<p>To summarize: Kalamazoo, Michigan State and Albion are ALL well-known in the midwest, especially the Chicago area. A degree from any of the three will be "recognized" by employers in that part of the country. However, all three are probably going to be about equal in terms of employer recognition outside of that area. But each school does have some unique strengths that may help after graduation. </p>

<p>If you are truly concerned about job prospects, I'd suggest contacting the career placement office at all three schools and asking how many companies recruit on campus in the typical year as well as how many grads get jobs within six months of graduation. But, to be fair, I'd also ask for numbers on how many kids get into law school from these schools.</p>

<p>Personally, I don't see much difference in terms of the "pull" these three schools will have with employers. Kalamazoo will offer some great opportunities to get real world experience, Michigan State offers the chance to minor in business, and Albion is excellent for political science and pre-law. You really can't go wrong with any of them. </p>

<p>Finally, just remember that if your son's career goals DO change, he can always transfer if necessary.</p>

7

<p>I looked a few facts up for you on the US News & World Report premium site.</p>

<p>Albion
25% of students complete internships, 25% do undergrad research, ALL classes have fewer than 50 students, 61% have 20 or less
Four year graduation rate is 64%
Percent of grads entering the job market in a field related to their major within six months of graduation: 90%</p>

<p>Kalamazoo
100% of students do a senior capstone project (great to show employers), 83% study abroad, 100% do undergraduate research, 66% do internships.
Four year grad rate is 70%
60% have a job within six months of graduation
All classes under 50</p>

<p>Michigan State
34% 4 year graduation rate
24% of classes have 50 or more students
No data available on how many students are employed in their field within 6 months of graduation - again, call the career placement office or snoop around their web site and see if you can get a hold of this.</p>

<p>Also ask all three schools for a list of how many companies interview on campus and which companies typically do so.</p>

8

<p>I don't think the school name is that important...what matters a lot more is if you did summer internships. Definitely gives you a leg up in any field of employment.</p>

<p>An outstanding student from a lesser known school should be able to find a job locally, or within that state, without too much trouble; however if he is planning on returning to your home state, it may take longer.</p>

9

<p>Here in SoCal, Michigan State will mostly be recognized as Magic Johnson's alma mater.</p>

10

<p>Thanks, everyone! I'll make those phone calls. Both programs he is accepted to at Albion and MSU require internships, so I'm glad that is such a valued experience. Carolyn, thanks for the data.</p>

11

<p>Newbiemom: If the James Madison program is what it used to be (interdisciplinary honors program) then it ought to be well recognized in the midwest. But if your S is considering applying for a job in San Francisco or Berkeley, I'd be wary about associating with Gerald Ford :)</p>

12

<p>Carolyn, </p>

<p>Actually, here in the Boston area, most people think MSU and U. Mich are the same thing. I'm an MSU alum, but get all the credit and glory of U. Mich.</p>

<p>Regarding the OP, IMHO, unless you went to a nationally recoginzed, top 10 school, name does not matter. Even then, name means far more to the alum than to the rest of us, and really only matters at all in one's early years.</p>

<p>There are so many other factors that matter in the career hunt that we can put this one out to pasture. Besides, what good does it do me if my alma mater is known mostly for sports? (think Notre Dame, So Cal, big 10 etc.)</p>

<p>It is so much more important to get that experience as an undergrad that stands out on the resume, be it via intern, volunteer, paid job or whatever. School name, major, frat, clubs etc. pale in comparison to real world job exposure. Remember, too, that most kids get jobs through personal and family contacts, not through campus placement.</p>

13

<p>dadofsam...James Madison is the MSU college for public policy. Madison has three majors:</p>

<pre><code>* International Relations
* Political Theory and Constitutional Democracy
* Social Relations
</code></pre>

<p>They only take about 200 students in each freshman class. DS applied early to get in, and many classes are small(er) than your typical MSU class. He'd still have to take many of the huge classes too though, and that is the appeal of Albion. He really liked his overnight visit at Albion, and the one at MSU was ok too, but he says there is a reason that MSU doesn't do overnight visits on weekends...(he was there on a wed.).</p>

14

<p>I can't compare the relative strength of the programs at those schools. However, your son may want to consider that MI State is in Lansing, so he may have more opportunities for internship, being a legislative page, etc., which would all look good on a resume.</p>

15

<p>Let me just add - it depends on the state and whether your child will stay in that state afterwards for employment. For example - in Texas, the state university is well-regarded by employers and your child would be better off there rather than a LAC (for employment). In NY - maybe better off at a strong LAC.</p>

16

<p>Newbiemom: My brother was in the James Madison program at MSU early in the program's history. At that time he received a degree which was some sort of combination of psychology/sociology - in short, an honors program with a degree that at that time was useless as any credential. Glad to see that the program has become more focused and more recognized.</p>