Go, dstark!
I know Bay…I just try to imagine my kids doing this (the lawsuit) and I can’t. I know one of them tattled in ninth grade when confronted by the principal about a prank some other kids pulled and one of them said no way to a weird haircut and dye job when he was on the swim team in high school but I have no knowledge of the dynamics of Division 1 sports – only college club sports and I know that 6’ 4" 210 lb #3 also said no way when they wanted the freshman team members to do something in the locker room at college. I asked him if he caught backlash about it and said heck no that he plays defense so they know not to “effing mess” with him and it is “ridiculously stupid”. That same one is home this summer and was “snickering” about the “Mr. Mean” e-mails when he was hanging out with me reading so who knows what will come. We certainly don’t know enough details to pass judgement one way or another. The goldfish thing won’t go anywhere unless the complainant is a card carrying, monetary gifting PETA member. If I were the lawyer I’d stay far, far away from the goldfish, the prune juice, the milk and the Mr. Mean e-mails…far away… the rest of it we just don’t know the details. The alcohol and potentially any sexual issues is what I keep coming back to. But then again professional football players smack each other on the butts on national TV heaven only knows what they do in the locker room. As a female, I really don’t want to know. I know there is a code of sorts where what happens in the “locker room or wherever” stays in the locker room or wherever. That code starts when guys are very young or at least it appears that way to me, the family “outsider.”
I do think it’s a little - er, gay - when guys in fraternities or on sports teams do things that involve them being naked, touching each other’s junk, etc. I don’t get that at all unless there is some latent desire underneath.
Slapping a butt…probably ok. ( I don’t like it). Grabbing the sex organ. Not ok.
Ask your sons if they think grabbing their teammates sex organs are ok. Or if they are ok if teammates grab their sex organs.
The final report of the Martin case can be googled.
Since this is the Parents Fourm.
The coach found out about incidents from a third party. He called individual teams members into his office to give their recollection of events. Maybe the answers ranged from:
Nothing or I don’t recall
We had fun
I was afraid for my life.
What would you want your student to do?
Tell the truth? It was good harmless fun? (Even thought they called a medical transport for an injured eye.)
No shady activities occurred in that room while ‘I’ was present.
This is tradition.
When my students were young I preached for them to tell the truth and pay the consequences. But as time passed, I saw money, lawyers, lies, and threats of discrimination that made my head spin.
I applaud Anthony Marcantoniofor telling his truth.
LOL Pizza, I’m there with you. dstark if you don’t think it’s common just google guys grabbing each others junk. From a female perspective it’s pretty stupid but it’s not an alien concept in the locker room set.
“Then we’re left wondering what the value of the scholarship was. Ballparking 30k/year (what’s tuition at UVA?) times 4 years is 120,000. Start there” Post #230.
I’ll bet his scholarship was not $30k per year. A D1 swim team has 9.9 scholarships per team, including diving. It would be very very rare for one freshman to get a full scholarship (Missy Franklin? Michael Phelps? Okay, yes). The UVA roster listed 25 swimmers, but that didn’t include the 6 who left, so at least 31 as there may have been others who left too. If the scholarships are divided somewhat evenly (probably aren’t), that’s about 1/3 of a scholarship per swimmer. It’s kind of hard to calculate at a state school where some pay instate rates and others OOS, but I’d guess he was receiving about $15-20k per year if he was good (his lawyer claims he’s headed to the olympics).
Guys commonly grab other guys’ junk; therefor it is ok. Common equals okay.
…Or wait…
Well the NFL says if you grab your own you lose 15 yards, the NFL, anyway, this past season fined one of the players a pretty hefty amount of money for grabbing someone else’s junk 
back to the topic at hand…
I would want my son to be reasonable and consider the consequences of what he plans to say.
Absolutely, as we were saying upthread, Marcantonio’s got to live with this and it’s important to him hopefully.
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The defendants were not the plaintiff’s employer or workplace superior, so your analogy in inapt.
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Actually, upperclassmen on a team are typically are expected to provide leadership.
It doesn’t have to be the boss doing the coercing. The analogy I used was “senior coworker/junior coworker.” That analogy is essentially correct. It’s been crystal clear for 20+ that HR doesn’t care who reports to whom, it’s enough that one implies some advantage/disadvantage to the other for just going along.
Yes, I have to think that either he was really, truly seriously mentally injured by what happened to him, or that his parents are pissed that they had to pay more for his education at NWU and want to recoup their outlay, and that is why he filed suit. If it is just a revenge suit, then wow, I don’t think I could do it. As the saying goes, “living well is the best revenge.” He should just make it to the Olympics and get his revenge that way.
50N40W,
Yes, a coach wants his players to get along, because it makes his life so much easier. But in reality, the coach doesn’t have to give a squat about what his players do (so long as it is not illegal), if they are performing well and winning meets. If he loved the plaintiff, he could have given him special treatment, fawned all over him, made the other players practice at a different time. There is no rule that says if player X can’t get along, then he is out. If he is the top performer, there is no way the coach is going to let him transfer away if he can help it.
I was able to obtain a copy of the complaint – it’s awful – all 30 pages of it. It opens with a recap of Marcantonio’s swimming career – three-time qualifier for Junior National Championships, two-time qualifier for Speedo National Championships and an Olympic Trials qualifier. He was “pursued and recruited by many of the finest academic institutions in the country with the most competitive swim teams… wanted to swim professionally after college and attempt to compete in the Olympics.” Busch made a presentation to Marcantonio and his parents making representations about the team and his teammates that convinced them it was the best fit.
The complaint continues to explain that Marcantonio arrived on campus the third week in August along with all the other “first years”. They were told they would be notified shortly about a “Welcome Week” where there would be a series of meetings, social gatherings and other fun stuff." On August 26th all the first years received the following email - -I am just providing a small sample of censored snippets:
The email is paragraph after paragraph of abuse and finally a directive to show up at the Swim House at a certain time the next day. The email concludes in part with:
The “first years” didn’t quite know what to make of it and thought perhaps it was just a joke and Mercantonio went along with the other “first years” at the appointed time.
Will provide a short summary of what the complaint alleges transpired at the Swim House in a separate post.
If the upper class swimmers implied or allowed the freshmen to infer that they (the upperclassmen) were in a position to advance or hinder the progress of the freshmen - whether or not they are in a position to do so - that is precisely the kind of coercion that is specifically called out in every treatment of others, harassment, or similar training I’ve seen since the 90’s. Maybe your work experience has been different?
That’s even before post 254 gets air time. Should be easy enough to track an email to its source.
50N40W,
I just don’t see where that idea would be relevant to the causes of action he alleged. The hazing statute doesn’t require a showing of coercion. And he didn’t claim he was harassed.
@HarvestMoon1, thanks for the report of the complaint.
That’s a heck of an email.
Looks like the accuser was a pretty good swimmer.
I don’t know how prevalent sexual organ grabbing is in college sports. I think men are capable of not grabbing each other’s body parts.
I was surprised harassment was not one of the complaints. Seems clearer than some of the complaints. We’ll just have to wait Harvest’s synopsis.
Two of the senior boys who were kicked out will be swimming at Michigan this year. Not sure what to think about that.
http://swimswam.com/luke-papendick-and-kyle-dudzinski-transfer-to-michigan/