Extremely Strict Honor Code!

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
1

<p>First off, before I say anything, I don't plan to cheat or beat the system in any unfair way so don't start blasting me with "well cheating is wrong and you shouldn't do it..."</p>

<p>Well my sis goes to UVA and she started telling me about the extremely strict honor code. So I didn't really care because I'm not planning to do that stuff anyway but now its starting to bug me a little. A kid who was a Rodman scholar just recently got expelled for something that in my opinion wasn't even cheating. He was supposed to turn in a test for regrading but accidentally spilled stuff all over it so he made a copy of the pages and wrote down exactly what was on the original copy and turned it in. Well the TA suspected something so he asked if all the answers were the same and of course the kid said yes. So the kid got scared and emailed the professor explaining everything. The next day he got a letter about a trial. He explained everything at the trial and was still expelled because he lied to the TA which he didn't. I think this is taking it overboard. This kid was extremely smart and will not be able to get into other good schools because of what happened. I think they should have just given him a 0 for the test or even the class but not kick him out.</p>

2

<p>Here's an article about that honor trial in the Cavalier Daily.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26471&pid=1420%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26471&pid=1420&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

3

<p>The case is a little bit more involved than what you were told. This guy allegedly spilled liquid over his test after receiving it back, and wanted to regrade. He said he believed the teacher&TA didn't add up the points correctly. He covered up the answers and the points given to each question, since they were supposedly wet, scanned it into his computer, and then printed out a new copy. He says he copied the answers and points directly as they were in the original test, but the teacher and the TA remember him receiving 0 points on the last question, rather than the credit he received on the this one. Additionally, Gilday turned this new copy of the test in without telling the teacher at all what had happened. Instead, he says that because they were not supposed to discuss 'changes' due to the strict regrading policy, he didn't approach her about the fact that it wasn't even the original test. Also, he says he threw away the original test. </p>

<p>When the teacher asked him about her suspicions, he got defensive and asked her if she was questioning his honor, while denying he changed the paper. A few hours later, he finally emailed her detailing everything that had truly happened, because he 'felt guilty'. The jury believed that this did not count as a conscientious retraction (which it isn't) and that Gilday had deliberately lied to his professor about the test to preserve whatever grade had appeared on his submitted regrade test and to hide the fact that the test wasn't even the original copy. </p>

<p>Many students who are thrown out on honor charges will be able to get into another good school, provided their credentials are worthy. If this wasn't the case, then there would be no controversey because then ALL schools would have such a strict honor policy. Rather, schools with less strict honor policies will be more accepting. The majority of the university, as evidenced by attempts to change the system, believe in the single sanction, and many professors and TAs use it extensively in their classes.</p>

4

<p>wow..that sounds exremely irrational.</p>

<p>Just from what I read in the article, I think a suspension would have been the logical consequence. I heard of a student at another school w/a similar situation, and his accusation was more clear-cut..he actually changed his answers. He got a suspension for a semester. An expulsion for a lesser offense, to me, does not seem rational.</p>

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<p>In the Honor system, there is no 'lesser offense'. Everything guilty results in expulsion, as long as it meets the criteria of act, intent, and seriousness/triviality, as decided by the jury</p>

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<p>from the link and the description by sv3a, this seems well deserved.</p>

<p>I agree with teh decision that was made. All he had to do was submit the wet/ruined test.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Galloway had a strict policy of only accepting written requests for re-grades and not discussing changes, which Gilday cited as the reason he did not approach Galloway about the problem in the first place.

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<p>this is an extremely lame reason. This is a policy so you can't argue about your test, not explain special circumstances.</p>

7

<p>Yeah, that along with the 'throwing away' the original test, getting very defensive once asked about why the test seemed different (and, of course, lying), 'feeling guilty' once he knew he was being suspected, and so on all give considerably suspicion to Gilday's true intentions. </p>

<p>On a side note, Gilday was actually a Jefferson Scholar as well...</p>

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<p>Wow, a jeff scholar? Hmm...</p>

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<p>Man, that sucks.</p>

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<p>I understand, but that doesn't mean I have to agree w/it. No question, the student was rightfully found guilty, but I think the Honor Code is way too harsh.</p>

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<p>Not really, tigerlilly. You still have to meet intent and seriousness criteria, meaning you can't get kicked out for trivial offenses. Other schools that have no honor codes still have provisions for kicking out cheaters, so don't think UVA is unique.</p>

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<p>He is also the Rodman President.</p>

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<p>I disagree. You can argue about your test, you just need to submit your argument in writing. This professor may have gotten tired of students being rude and indignant and hoping to bully/charm their way into a better grade. Why bother with that sort of nonsense?</p>

14

<p>that's dumb
at harvard and yale they don't care. most politicians lie cheat steal anyway :D ;)</p>

15

<p>Well that article does change things. That kid shouldn't have changed something on the test and he should have kept the ruined copy. I guess he does deserve it for changing the test because he knew about the policy. Thats all they talk about at UVA. The honor code is everywhere so there is no reason for him not to know what the consequences would be if he cheated.</p>

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<p>Check on the second story of that day:
<a href="http://www.cavalierdaily.com/news.asp?pid=1420%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cavalierdaily.com/news.asp?pid=1420&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Gilday might get expelled for one unfortunate lie while a rapist was able to graduate from UVa. </p>

<p>Check out what someone I know wrote as a Letter to the Editor of the Cavalier Daily:</p>

<hr>

<p>Honor Support Officers have never lied, cheated, or stolen</p>

<p>I am an honor advisor and I have just lied. The statement above is not true.</p>

<p>There have been many opinions in the past either praising or criticizing the Honor Committee. I would like to discuss an aspect of Honor that seems to be invisible in the public eye: the students who run Honor.</p>

<p>Parents of the students I have advised have often asked me about the fairness of students expelling other students when both sides may have made equally immoral, unethical, or academically flawed choices at some point in their lives.</p>

<p>I do not know every single support officer in Honor, but I do know that some of our actions have made the forbidden cross over the often ambiguous line between honesty and dishonesty, and have certainly stretched seemingly rigid definitions of Honor offenses.</p>

<p>As surveys have implied, the accusations brought forth represent only a small fraction of all honor offenses. If this is true, then statistically, sooner or later there will be a juror or honor support officer who will judge a fellow student guilty of a personally familiar offense. </p>

<p>All this begs the question: how fair is our system? Isn't it ironic that while a student might be expelled from the University for one lie, a rapist was allowed to graduate years before? Is everyone held to the same standards?</p>

<p>Without any inherent system of checks and balances, the fairness is debatable when flawed students judge and expel other students for similar flaws. Therefore, I suggest the involvement of moderators (non-student types) in Honor events.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
I disagree. You can argue about your test, you just need to submit your argument in writing. This professor may have gotten tired of students being rude and indignant and hoping to bully/charm their way into a better grade. Why bother with that sort of nonsense?

[/quote]
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<p>What I was trying to say was, you can state your case, but there's no back and forth between you and the professor. You can give your view, and then the professor can decide if they think your argument has merit. I agree with everything you said =)</p>

18

<p>"Other schools that have no honor codes still have provisions for kicking out cheaters, so don't think UVA is unique."</p>

<p>To go along with that, other schools with no formal honor code don't have as structured a system. Therefore it's easier for problems to occur and for rulings where the defendant may actually be innocent. There are many failsafes and such in the UVA honor system that it's a very fair procedure, with many options and criteria. Virginia state courts have upheld the UVA honor system several times on this basis.</p>