<p>The Honor System worked quite nicely when I was at UVA. I know I never cheated, never saw anyone cheat, never heard of anyone cheating (other than the published violations). It just wasn't done. It was culturally unacceptable.</p>
<p>Last night, I had a talk with a UVA undergrad who felt that the system is "pretty much dead."</p>
<p>I'm interested in feedback from current students.</p>
<p>Tarhunt- my experience was the same as yours, albeit just about 30 years ago when I was at the Law School.</p>
<p>Well, I don't know anyone personally who cheats, and many of my professors still give take home tests because they know we won't cheat. I'm not involved with honor but I know many people are very anti single sanction. I personally think it needs to stay single sanction because if there are multiple sanctions it pretty much encourages cheating, and if you cheat you should leave UVA, because you're ruining our community of trust. There are many arguments for and against, so let's not make this forum a single sanction debate please. Especially since basically Honor at UVA has become one big debate about pro/anti single sanction instead of actually focusing on cheating.</p>
<p>there was an editorial in the cavdaily about this. basicly the honor code only worked when UVa was small. think of it this way. </p>
<p>say your taking a econ 201 final. 500 people are in the room. you're leaving and you see someone staring at someone elses paper. You have no idea who this person is. How are you going to report them other than saying infront of the entire class "excuse me, whats your name? i need it so i can file an honor offense against you." you can guess how many times thats happened. sure the honor code is a nice thing to have, but its about as effective as burning people at the stake for committing sodomy in the middle ages. cheaters arn't going to stop cheating because a few people got kicked out.</p>
<p>Actually, jags, there were a few classes of 500 back in my day, as well, so I don't think that's necessarily the issue. And I don't think that the chance of getting reported was ever the issue. We just didn't do it. It wasn't OK. I would no more have cheated than I would have robbed a bank.</p>
<p>But was that just at UVa, I wonder, or a more widespread cultural trend? I'm just wondering. I think...how to put this...people are more likely to look out for themselves today at the expense of others than they were several decades ago. Of course I'm sure there were always people like that. </p>
<p>But you have to admit today that we see a lot of "whatever it takes." I would say there are a few reasons for this. One of the major ones is that as far as I'm aware, in the last years that the current generation of college students was raised in, people tended to have less kids. They poured more time and resources into fewer kids. There you have the rise of soccer moms. When I started gymnastics, the lowest level did two meets at our home gym. In the last few years, that lowest level was traveling from VA to Fl, PA, NC, etc all in one year and no one even questioned it, even though to be honest most of those kids will quit within the next few years. But everyone wants to buy into their kid being some sort of national champion. </p>
<p>I honestly think that a lot of people are learning that it's more important to watch out for yourself and do whatever it takes to get ahead, whether it's honest or not. When I started gymnastics, the lower level wasn't too cutthroat. People were legitimately that level. Now some gyms will hold girls back in one level for three years so they dominate competitions. It's not exactly "cheating", no...but it's not exactly honest or in the spirit of fair competition in my opinion either. But some people somewhere have convinced themselves they need to go to whatever lengths possible so they can say they won, even if it's fairly disingenuous.</p>
<p>the uva honor code was started to prevent students from cheating because there was a cheating problem at the school. It wasn't because of the dying words of a professor or any other story you've heard.</p>
<p>good grades equal better money and life. Example, people who get good grades get into law/med/elite school and make a crapload of money. UVA is just a tiny place on the planet in a tiny amount of time in a universe so huge you can't even imagine it. What's wrong with bending a few rules to make your life a little better?</p>
<p>I'm all for the honor system and don't cheat because I realize I'm just cheating myself in the long run. But with the pressures put on students, many of them will do anything to get ahead and this is why people have cheated, do cheat and will continue to cheat.</p>
<p>I'm sad. Princedog, I really do think UVA was special this way. Maybe cheating was less rampant in an earlier day. I don't know. But I would bet a lot of money that behavior at UVA was special.</p>
<p>uvawannabe, all I can say is ... I'm sorry you feel this way. I'm glad you don't cheat, but the idea that living a nonethical life is the way to live ...</p>
<p>I hope you change your mind.</p>
<p>uvawannabe,</p>
<p>actually the honor code was started when a uva professor was shot and no one fessed up to it. its actually a true story. they weren't his dying words, however ;-). Over the years, the honor code has changed - it wasn't "don't lie cheat or steal" in 1850.</p>
<p>tarhunt,</p>
<p>i was actually reiterating what the editorial said. i didn't mean it as my own opinion - although i do agree with the author.</p>
<p>I love all the ridiculous Honor code origin stories. I took the history of UVA last semester and wasn't it something about some coup d'etat by the students or something about not being able to do rifle practice? I remember it was just the most ridiculous thing ever and much better than the shooting a professor bit, student initiated version that everyone usually tells.</p>
<p>I am dismayed to read some of the posts about the perceived state of the Honor Code these days. As was previously stated, violating the Honor Code was simply not done in my day. It was not done not because of a fear of getting caught but rather because it diminished you as a person to violate the Code--(ie. in a silly analogy--sort of like cheating on your golf score when playing alone). Also, I believe that if you cheat to get into a better professional school, you will cheat once there to get better grades for a better job, and then cheat again on your job to get a better raise. I also do not accept the pretext that cheating is somehow more acceptable today because of the assertion that there is more pressure on students today to get better grades than at any other time in the past. Even if true, and I contend it is not, more pressure means more work not shortcuts like cheating. Most importantly, from my perspective, my D will starting in the Fall and I have told her on more than one occasion that going to UVA and being a part of the Honor Code will be a life altering experience for her. I sure hope that is still true because it was the best part of going to law school there for me.</p>
<p>A little history lesson, courtesy of the website.
[QUOTE]
The Code of Honor</p>
<p>In the early years, most University of Virginia students came from plantations of the middle Atlantic and Southern states. Independent and often cocksure, these students lived a rowdy life, bound to provoke disciplinary action. The University's Board of Visitors, in those first months led by Jefferson himself, began articulating laws limiting student behavior—an action Jefferson regretted, revering instead the ideal of student self-government.</p>
<p>On the night of November 12, 1840, a masked student shot and killed John A. G. Davis, beloved professor of law. Sobered students agreed to a plan whereby students "vouched" for one another, agreeing to report misbehavior. In the same spirit, University faculty established an "honor pledge" on examinations, agreeing to trust students when they pledged that they had "neither received nor given assistance" on their schoolwork. Over the years students at the University of Virginia stepped up to the ideals held by Jefferson. According to the rules of the nation's oldest student-run Honor System, students must pledge not to lie, cheat, or steal, and must agree to report anyone doing so to a court of their peers. Today that same Honor System is alive and well at the University of Virginia, frequently coming under scrutiny by both student leaders and the full student body, always affirmed in its reliability and importance through results of student referenda.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>dean j,</p>
<p>thank you for verifying my story :-). although i must say, Mr. Davis couldn't have been that beloved if he got gunned down ehehehe.</p>
<p>I believe its also verified in much more detail in Dabney's History of UVa. If any of you ever step into special collections you can check it out.</p>
<p>Yea everyone always says the shooting was the direct cause of the honor system but really the profs not the students made the honor system, and the creation of the honor system followed the shooting by a few years.</p>
<p>By the way, there's a short story about what faculty think of the Honor Code in this season's UVa Magazine (it has a photo of The Corner on it). I think all alumni get it in the mail, so keep an eye out for it.</p>
<p>EDIT: I</a> just found the article online.</p>
<p>Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.</p>
<p>I really feel for those of you who didn't get a chance to attend UVA when the Honor System really worked. It was simply amazing. I once left an expensive tennis raquet (about the best thing I owned) in Necomb Hall for four days before realizing I'd left it. I went to look for it and ... there it was. Untouched. My best friend's father died when I was a first-year, so I would have missed a history exam, but the prof told me to take it along, do it in two hours by timing myself, and mail it to him.</p>
<p>I'm so sorry.</p>
<p>I worked for a school with a rock solid one. People would leave money out in the lounges and it wouldn't go anywhere. I don't think any exam happened in class. Most of the kids took them in the wee hours of the night. Definitely one of the most positive learning environments I've seen.</p>
<p>Took my niece to UVA last fall. She left her IPOD some where in Newcomb Hall. I told her not to worry and explained to her the UVA Honor system. She gave me that look with rolling eyes. We stopped by lost and found. Some UVA student found it and brought to lost and found.</p>
<p>On an unfortunate opposite note, I investigated a case back in September which involved the theft of an iPod. The accused was found guilty to my knowlege.</p>
<p>My son's a student at UVA, and he said his friends don't worry about their things being stolen. One friend lost her cell phone, and the person who found it started calling numbers until he located her. He also hasn't seen or heard of anyone cheating. Of course, he and his friends might have just been lucky too.</p>