FA at Boston University

Paying for College
81

<p>My point was simply that I didn’t leave the private school for financial reasons or because there were too many kids with much more means than I had.</p>

<p>I agree with Sybbie in that this OP already has significant financial obstacles…the reasons for choosing a less expensive alternative, in my opinion, have MORE to do with the lack of ability to easily pay for the college than the fact that there might be other students there who have more ready cash than she will have. This student will be facing an uphill climb to make ends meet…that needs to be addressed first.</p>

82

<p>***The truth is that it can be very stressful to attend a school where you see the glaring differences between students from high and low income families. Sometimes low income students are left feeling that they are not able to take in all that the college offers because they cannot afford to participate. This is also compounded if the student attends school in a high cost of living area, NYC, Boston etc. **</p>

<p>This is not only the plight of the low-income but the middle income as well because many are paying full freight for tuition-room and board and it also leaves limited money for discretionary spending. </p>

<p>BU like NYU doesn’t have a college campus in the traditional sense, so there is a lot of “travel” around the city when it comes to having a social life. What happens if the friends want to go out to a club, hop in a cab where the student thought they were going in the neighborhood for pizza and doesn’t have the money for this kind of outing, or if they have the money, this kind of outing will put a major crimp in their budget for the next week/weeks.*</p>

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<p>Sybbie…I completely agree. </p>

<p>And, as Sylvan wrote, those visceral responses are hard to explain… And, they may not be totally rational…but they’re there.</p>

<p>My mom grew up poor. She went to a private high school with many affluent girls, who were not mean or anything. But, over the 4 years, various subjects would come up (summer vacations in Europe, Christmas vacations spent skiing, etc) and my mom felt like she didn’t have anything exciting to add in that area. For the rest of her life, my mom would have this uncomfortable feeling anytime people talked about their travels…even tho as an adult, we weren’t poor at all. (I could post a link to the home I grew up in since it’s on the market right now.) </p>

<p>My point about forced integration bussing wasn’t a political policy statement, nor was it a commentary on a college’s desire to have economic diversity. My point was that when you mix haves and have-nots, sometimes the have-nots are going to be bothered by the constant reminders of what they lack.</p>

<p>My sister’s kids attend pricey elites. Both kids have very poor roommates. Are my nephews mean or cruel? Absolutely not…they are very sweet young men. Thoughtful and do not have pockets of cash. Yet, their poor roomies have to struggle with everything. Pizza out with the pals once a month? Nope, no money for that. A class requires a certain pricey graphing calculator, nope, no money for that. But, their roomies can’t help but notice that my nephews don’t have to sweat those things…either their part-time jobs fund those things or Christmas money from relatives, or whatever. So, while no one is saying mean things to these poor kids, they are feeling what they are lacking. </p>

<p>And…for those who are comparing our own college days, there’s no comparison…there weren’t the laptops, iPads, cell phones, iPads, that exist today.</p>

83

<p>

Of course you can compare. Why wouldn’t you?? The “toys” of each generation may differ, but so what. Comparing/drawing from your personal experiences, or those of your parents is exactly what most of you are doing. Which is where you get your experience base. Otherwise you are just guessing at what others might feel and presenting it as fact.</p>

<p>** I remember, amongst other things, oogling over a friend’s $100 casio calculator when we were seniors. It did the basic 4 functions.</p>

84

<p>I have to apologize for my comment about Brown. I based that on a very good friend that grew up near the school and knew many people who went there, and the stories she would hear about how the students acted, and also, Emma Watson, how she was teased when she started at the school…and some other pretty awful stories, from people that I know about the school…but, that was wrong of me to assume everyone at the school is like that, so I’m sorry, I should not have said that.</p>

85

<p>I think we’re ready for a compromise. But first:
Dig around the web and you can see where these tales about Emma Watson being teased originated- and etc.
I knew a young gal on her floor, first year, and she said the normal treatment of Emma was remarkable. And, that Emma was friendly and integrated herself on campus.</p>

86

<p>I think it’s true some terribly poor kids can naturally feel out of place when surrounded by rich kids or when they need to head off for their student job but others are planning something more fun. I think we should allow that there are cases where a student might feel more capable, more empowered, when he or she goes to a state school, which might have more socioeconomic breadth. Of course, he/she could still land with a privileged roomie, who brings 'round his/her privileged friends.</p>

<p>I also think that, we are influenced by our parents’ experiences, sure. My mother steered me to a smaller college because she hated the large auditorium classes, hundreds of kids, in her experience at Cornell (eons ago.) She had ideas of what student jobs would haunt me, socially. But, things evolve! At schools where 30-50-plus % of kids are on aid, there is always someone headed for that job, hoping for take out pizza. We have to be careful that experiences in our day or our parents’ don’t lead us to assume.</p>

<p>You want to watch for hearsay and, as another poster noted, stereotyping.</p>

87

<p>

I wish I could convey a sense of the idea that it can be much more complex and subtle than that.</p>

88

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</p>

<p>So, what’s the solution? That the have-nots should not go to pricey privates populated by the affluent? They should stick to community college or state colleges? </p>

<p>My family was poor and I went to an expensive private school on financial aid. I didn’t realize how poor we were until I met some of the truly rich and even the just well-off. And I also met people even poorer than me (I’ll never forget going to dinner with a friend on a day the school cafeteria was closed, and he said he “wasn’t hungry” and got the side salad – because he only had 50 cents to his name. And my other friend who took 3 classes one semester because she couldn’t afford the books.) </p>

<p>So yes, I totally understand what it feels like to be poor surrounded by the wealthy. And as college costs increase and financial aid for middle class families decline, this is becoming a greater issue.</p>

<p>But if a poor kid gets a great financial aid package, should s/he NOT go to college for this reason? Heck, poor kids can see people with iPhones and iPads and designer clothing just by watching TV.</p>

<p>Now, the OP is in a totally different situation. She didn’t get the aid she needs, clearly cannot afford BU, and should not go. If she had gotten into a school that met full need, that’s an entirely different story.</p>

89

<p>Quote:</p>

<h1>But the fact that they’re walking around with their regalia is what often bothers the “have-nots.”</h1>

<h1>So, what’s the solution? That the have-nots should not go to pricey privates populated by the affluent? They should stick to community college or state colleges? </h1>

<p>No. There’s much less of an issue at pricey privates that meet need. Those schools will probably have more low income and middle income kids. </p>

<p>My concern has been with attending pricey privates that don’t meet need because those schools will often have a large number of very affluent kids…otherwise who is paying the tuition/gaps? (I mentioned a certain private that I would never suggest to a low income kid.) Yes, those schools meet need for some (how hard is it to “meet need” to someone with a $45k EFC…throw him a student loan. The same with the few high stats students who’ve been awarded a large merit scholarship). Those “average need met” stats are bogus because they only include those who enroll. They don’t include those who were accepted and were given huge gaps. So, that suggests that most of those who enrolled had the means to pay. </p>

<p>No one is saying that the poor should just go to CCs and state schools. And no one is saying that there’s a way for a low income kid to completely avoid feeling what he may feel. A lot of the discussion has simply been about whether such feelings exist and why they exist. Some seem to think that the feelings don’t exist. </p>

<p>And, frankly, since many/most flagships don’t meet need, those schools can also become bastians of well-heeled students. Most lowish income kids don’t get enough FA to attend.</p>

<p>My point about affluent kids today having many more ways/opportunities to show wealth is true (and I’m not talking about these kids being rude or anything like that.) That doesn’t mean that years ago there weren’t any ways to show wealth. Sure, many of us may have been a little green when a richer friend showed up with a nicer car or went on a fab summer vacation. But, there wasn’t this constant show of pricey stuff that’s out there now. Few had mani/pedis when I was in high school or college (don’t know anyone who did this), no one had designer purses, etc. Yes, some had nicer cars and maybe an item or toy or two that was expensive, but it was NOTHING like today with phones, laptops, iPads, mani/pedis, spray tans, highlighted hair, designer clothes, purses, shoes, boots, and jewelry.</p>

90

<p>The distinction between student’s family wealth in the public vs. private schools is an artificial one. Looking at Kiplinger’s list of the best value public and private schools, once you get past the first 5 or so privates with the very best aid, the average debt at graduation for the publics and privates starts to look almost the same [Best</a> Values in Public Colleges, 2011-12](<a href=“http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/colleges/]Best”>Best College Values, 2019 | Kiplinger) [Best</a> Values in Private Colleges, 2011-12](<a href=“http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/privatecolleges/]Best”>Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts) There are kids from all financial strata at both publics and privates. There are many more wealthy families than can fit their kids into the tippy top schools, or that can qualify for entrance into these schools. With admissions rates in the 5-15% at many of these schools, <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14155721-post26.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14155721-post26.html&lt;/a&gt; 85+ % of these kids go somewhere else, public or private. There are lots of wealthy kids at our state Flagship. We have a generous merit /tuition scholarship and some families send their kids there and then buy them a luxury car (ridiculous, as far as I am concerned).</p>

<p>The bottom line is that people may feel uncomfortable if they are around people with whom they may feel they have little in common, or where they may feel in the minority. But this is true for lots of things, not just financial means. Does not matter one iota about the “number” of toys or luxuries a person has. Kids nowadays have more “tools” (mostly electronics) but they aren’t usually flashy about it. The people that flash their wealth are the ones that may make others uncomfortable. I wonder if it has anything to do with schools that have or don’t have greek systems. Just a thought. </p>

<p>I went to a school with people with the last name of Roosevelt and Kennedy and Kellogg and Newhouse, and, coming from a middle class family, I certainly was not in their financial class nor run in their social circles, but they typically wore jeans and hiking boots and tshirts like the rest of us (this was the 70’s). They didn’t run around in the dress they wore to their cotillion or debutante ball. Occasionally you’d spot a blazer or a signet ring, but they weren’t tacky about flashing wealth or their picture on the society page of the NY Times. Except for the one girl who drove her MG onto the sidewalk. But thats another story.</p>

<p>So back to the OP (who seems to have left the thread)-- go to a school you can afford. Its a shame if you missed a filing deadline, but things happen. If you have financially affordable schools that you like, then end of discussion.</p>

91

<p>This thread should really be split into one of a different topic that has some relevant debating points.</p>

92

<p>Ohh- M2 you mean where the gapping kills the kid? I thought this was just about the class difference thing. (You won’t like the snootiness; they’ll have more than you do.) Now I think you mean literally a school the kid cannot afford. Not just whether his rich roomie has a Mercedes and a Mac and can fly home (or better) on breaks. And, I was confused because the kids who have the coveted goodies at D1’s school are both richer- and poorer- than we are. No, a kid should not go to a school he can’t reasonably afford. But, without knowing his aid package, we can 't assume that by his socioeconimic status. K? </p>

<p>It’s not a light subject. And, my far above comment about poor parenting was aimed at parents who produce brats. Not parents who have to restrict their kids’ choices because of their own situations.</p>

93

<p>

One of the obstacles to discussion is that “the poor” are not a monolithic homogeneous group. Politicians often refer to them as such, we hear a lot about “the poor” this year in the candidate comments and speeches. Statisticians attempt to outline the boundaries and extent of “the poor”. It has, in fact, become rather politically incorrect to make any type of critical comment or statement about “the poor” (any of them or all of them). </p>

<p>But the fact is that there are many degrees/levels of poor and many problems and issues associated with poverty that do or don’t affect various groups and individuals. So for someone simply to say “we were poor” doesn’t really tell us much about the problems and issues they had as a result. We can’t extract general principals from one person’s experience alone.</p>

94

<p>

</p>

<p>Back to the original story:</p>

<p>Op applied and was accepted to BU. She was late in submitting her FA paperwork and as a result **received no FA from the school with the exception of federal aid (Pell ad Stafford loans). </p>

<p>The family has a 0 EFC and makes 17k a year**. </p>

<p>OP beleives that the school should have given her 31k in financial aid. </p>

<p>Before the thread morphed into something else, the conversation was about how BU was not a financially feasible option for this student because they do not meet 100% demonstrated need and** her parents are not in the postition to borrow neither the COA as a result of her not receiving any institutional ai or the 17k gap that would be left on the table even if she had received the 31k in institutional aid<a href=“that%20the%20OP%20thought%20she%20deserved”>/b</a>.
I wrote in post # 76

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<p>Where the discussion turned, was when teachandmom wrote in post # 19</p>

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</p>

<p>then the thread went on another tanget. back to our regularly scheduled programming ;)</p>

95

<p>Threads do tend to morph, expecially when we’ve already said, over and over, that the numbers won’t add up. And the OP has left the building. I don’t know why the comment that ignited all this is quoted in 164. It’s gas on the fire.</p>

96

<p>The distinction between student’s family wealth in the public vs. private schools is an artificial one. Looking at Kiplinger’s list of the best value public and private schools, once you get past the first 5 or so privates with the very best aid, the average debt at graduation for the publics and privates starts to look almost the same Best Values in Public Colleges, 2011-12 Best Values in Private Colleges, 2011-12 ** There are kids from all financial strata at both publics and privates**</p>

<p>I agree. I wrote:</p>

<p>And, frankly, since many/most flagships don’t meet need, those schools can also become bastians of well-heeled students. Most lowish income kids don’t get enough FA to attend.</p>

<p>The issue seems to more depend on whether the school is great with aid or not.</p>

<p>*Ohh- M2 you mean where the gapping kills the kid? I thought this was just about the class difference thing. (You won’t like the snootiness; they’ll have more than you do.) Now I think you mean literally a school the kid cannot afford. Not just whether his rich roomie has a Mercedes and a Mac and can fly home (or better) on breaks. And, I was confused because the kids who have the coveted goodies at D1’s school are both richer- and poorer- than we are. No, a kid should not go to a school he can’t reasonably afford. But, without knowing his aid package, we can 't assume that by his socioeconimic status. K? *</p>

<p>Yes… at pricey schools where kids with low EFCs tend to be largely gapped, the student body tends to be more affluent (not mean, just affluent).</p>