FA at Boston University

Paying for College
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<p>Lerkin, I guess we just have different views on what is an appropriate way to celebrate a child’s birthday. We have wealthy friends and neighbors and certainly for an engagement or graduation party there is sometimes a dance floor installed in the yard and live music or a dj. This would be to mark the celebration of a major life event. To do it for a child’s party seems a little like conspicuous consumption to me. But perhaps that is because of where I live.</p>

<p>I think the thread has morphed into a discussion of the earlier comment to the OP that " It’s mostly the rich kids who get to attend their dream schools, and hate to say it, but with a family with the income of yours, you would always be an outsider, even if you did get in."</p>

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<p>I think the thread has morphed into a discussion of the earlier comment to the OP that " It’s mostly the rich kids who get to attend their dream schools, and hate to say it, but with a family with the income of yours, you would always be an outsider, even if you did get in."</p>

<p>Very true. And, while some of the sentiment may be true at some rich kid schools, it could have been stated better.</p>

<p>And…when I use the words “rich kid schools”…I don’t necessarily mean actual rich kids…but a school where many families are either paying full freight, near full freight, etc…even if the families aren’t rich, but can afford to pay for most/all of the costs. Like I said earlier, I would NEVER recommend a certain private to a low income student…the school is full of affluent kids, pricey Greek life dominates, and a child on a very, very, very tight budget with poor parents may feel a bit odd.</p>

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<p>

I mentioned earlier (post #39) that I was raised in poverty and that I was uncomfortable at the “rich kids” school, feeling like I didn’t fit in. Others have made the point that their kids didn’t have a problem fitting in, to which you suggested that perhaps it comes down to parenting. I would infer that my discomfort was the result of bad parenting, however, since I don’t feel like I had much in the way of any parenting, I would be less inclined to take offense, really.</p>

<p>mom2ck is right in that there is a serious difference between being more or less middle class and being raised on welfare or in severe poverty and dysfunction. It is true to this day that I feel extremely self-conscious and vaguely uncomfortable in a room full of people where I can smell the money. Some scars apparently last a lifetime.</p>

<p>Fortunately, H and I are solidly middle class and S and D have spent time in various economic circles so likely will not have these problems.</p>

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<p>But there are a few kids who can handle that kind of pressure with grace and to assume that the OP could not was insulting. And even at those “rich kid schools” there are still some kind, down to earth kids who would not judge her and then dismiss her based on her family’s income.</p>

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<p>Off topic now, yes, but a whole can of worms has been opened, and you can’t help but talk about it now. </p>

<p>I somewhat agree with lerkin about middle class families spoiling their kids so much so that they can keep up with their rich friends…BINGO!! Yes! I see this, so much! My daughter’s former best friend, who dumped her to hang around with the “A” crowd that said friend really did not fit into but shoved her way along any way, and her parents paid the big $$$ to send her on the expensive church trips (church is more of a wealthy teen social group…no actual church related things really happen at this church), buy her a gas guzzler car, don’t make her work a job because she is “just too busy”, the kid is a complete spoiled brat, expects everything, does nothing for it, is not appreciative to her parents one bit…in fact she is often angry with them that her car is just a 99 Explorer, when all the friends have new VW’s…yes, Lerkin, you are on to something there! Middle class spoiled brats having to keep up with their rich friends! I see it every day. My hubby’s (very upper) middle class uncle bought a condo for his kids to go to UGA, new cars, didn’t make them work a job…he took out HUGE loans to do all of this for his kids, now he is telling my husband we need to do the same for our daughter. Sorry! She got a good scholarship offer to a decent local school, 20 minutes away, but she won’t be able to live on campus, uncle is telling us how “scarred” she will be and not make friends and not fit in because we won’t do this for her. Unreal! This attitude! But have always been the sensible ones, we do what we can, we still go into debt for many things in general so our kids can have some things, but we do not go over the top like some who jsut hand it out to their kids and expect nothing…not even kindness in return. Luckily, my daughter sounds like Thumper’s daughter…she will go to a rich kids school, and even now in high school, she has many rich friends…and in her circle, it means nothing. Some of her friends live in Islesworth (Shaquille O-neal has a house there and many NBA players), some live in apts and some live in a halfway ok neighborhood like we do and it means nothing to her circle. Now, her former best friends circle…oh yeah, it makes ALL the difference, but it’s what you make of it. </p>

<p>So, to the OP, if you are able to work it all out and you are the kind of person who can deal with the ones who feel they are better than you because they have more and you can find the ones who will like you for who you are, and you don’t mind working a part time job to pay for your own phone and computer…you will be fine. You will find people just like you. I was on my own at 17, no car, but a decent job, and no one knew that I was destitute and had to pay my own way for EVERYTHING I had. Don’t let people convince you that you are going to stick out like a sore thumb because your parents make $17,000 a year, instead, work your butt off, find a little part time job, even if it’s not BU, wherever you go, you will do fine, it is what you make it. </p>

<p>And the lady who made the comment about her not fitting in…I wish you would just disappear form this conversation because you are not even sorry for being so nasty and saying such a mean thing. EVEN IF that is truly what you believe, you could have been WAY more tactful about the way you said it.</p>

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</p>

<p>Didn’t you recently start a thread requesting that people not be so harsh?Your comment requesting someone to leave a thread on an open forum is not only a bit harsh, it is rude. Pot meet kettle.</p>

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<p>I agree with mom2ck so much that I almost wasn’t going to post but I will add this. It also depends on the school. One of my kids attends a top lac and, yes, it is an issue there but the interesting thing is that there are racial overtones: white kids who are poor can cover it up a bit more while lots of people assume the Hispanic/ Black kids on campus are poor. I believe this has to do not just with the school but that it pulls a lot of kids from Boston, where I think there are still racial divisions. (I intend no offence to Bostonians-- just that I think that’s the frame of mind that the kids have when they enter the school.) Another of my kids attended a “rich kid” university in a more racially integrated city and that wasn’t present. </p>

<p>I think this is easier for boys. I think this is hardest for minorities. But I think that reality is that the students at top colleges are from wealthier families than the average U.S. population. When you’re talking top, top schools, you also face the random ridiculously rich person: the children of heads of state from foreign countries, the descendants of founders of companies that are everyday names/ movie stars/people whose grandparents control the economies of 3rd world countries etc. Part of education is learning to deal with everyone and mix in all groups. Maybe the kid who is snotty as a freshman turns out to be the NICEST kid a year or two later, when her world grows a bit. There are reasons that these schools have holistic admissions and try to gather students from all corners, all backgrounds, all races, etc. It can be a growth experience.</p>

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<p>Sylvan,</p>

<p>I understand your point of view, though I don’t completely agree with you. </p>

<p>As a first generation immigrant I know perfectly well what it is like to be poor. However, I always viewed my situation as temporary, because I believed through higher education and hard work I can become much better off. I don’t know why you felt discomfort around rich or better off people, but I never felt this way. While I question motives of my father (it is a long story), he raised me to believe in myself and that everything is possible if I work for it…</p>

<p>When I talked about bad parenting, I mostly was talking about spoiled brats, who are result of poor parenting. This mostly happens in families with higher than poverty level incomes.</p>

<p>I also never felt anger towards those who were/are better off than me. And I see a lot of anger from many kids on these forums. I also see many kids feeling that they entitled to certain level of education regardless of their parents ability to pay. This is also result of bad parenting in my opinion.</p>

69

<p>LOL re pot meet kettle.
Personally, I don’t think the poster meant anything other than worried concern in her comment, which she made perfectly clear by sharing her own story. It is something to consider; and not meant to be cruel.</p>

<p>However, I do think that “socioeconomically diverse” college settings are to be valued for a number of reasons. There’s already far too much economic partitioning in our society – how will we ever establish sensible social policy as a country if we never have the opportunity to befriend each other? Look at all the advantages College Confidential enjoys as a resource due to the very very broad experiences and perspectives brought by its community!!!</p>

<p>It’s also been my experience through my own son that many students at many schools are truly “wealth-blind.” </p>

<p>And frankly, even where they’re not, there’s a lot to learn from living with and exchanging ideas with the wealthy/poor/middling et al :wink: It’s also a valuable networking experience.</p>

<p>So to the OP – don’t let all this talk dissuade you from attending the most rigorous educational environment available to you. You will just need to set the trends, not follow them :wink: In life, most situations flow from “who you’re being about it” rather than “what others perceive about it”!</p>

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<p>But there are a few kids who can handle that kind of pressure with grace and to assume that the OP could not was insulting. And even at those “rich kid schools” there are still some kind, down to earth kids who would not judge her and then dismiss her based on her family’s income.</p>

<p>I think there’s some confusion about what the point is…</p>

<p>I don’t think the point is that affluent kids are mean to the poor. I really don’t think that goes on in college. I think it’s more of the “poor kids” just noticing and “feeling the pinch” of being a “have not” amongst a bunch of “haves.” </p>

<p>And, I don’t think the point is that “this middle class kid” (or upper-middle class kid) who didn’t wear fancy duds had no issues adjusting. Such a kid may have had NO INTEREST is such finer things. lol Such a kid may have to earn his own pocket money or even contribute something towards college, but he’s not in the same boat as the child whose parents are so low income that the child can’t ever turn to the parent for emergency cash, bus-fare home, or whatever. Poor kids don’t have the resources that children of professional parents have…even if the professional families are cutting back to afford college. The professional family can turn to a Parent Plus loan, a credit card, or whatever in a cash-flow crunch.</p>

<p>I think the point is that whether he’d like a few nicer clothes or not, he can’t have them…while his classmates can (if they want them).</p>

<p>Another case in point, my younger son is pre-med, so his pre-med pre-req grades are super-important. It’s very little skin off our nose to tell our child, “hey, don’t work much during the semesters that you’re taking OChem…we’ll give you money.” The poor kid won’t have parents who can offer that relief.</p>

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<p>

Those sorts of visceral responses often defy explanation, lerkin. Or explanation would involve digging into things better left buried. We are a complex compilation of our life experiences. </p>

<p>But people here talk a lot about “fit” when it comes to colleges. And while fit involves having appropriate majors, location, size, urban/suburban, buildings, etc. it also involves the people who will be one’s potential friends and classmates. And how we feel about such matters is as subjective as whether we feel hungry or not - and there is no “right” answer. Whether op will have any issues at BU (or where ever she ends up) we can’t know. Hopefully not.</p>

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<p>One of the first people I met freshmen year in college was incredibly rich, and to my surprise, she was really nice and knew the value of money. I learned something that day – that it’s not a good idea to stereotype anyone.</p>

<p>A major goal of financial aid at schools that only give need-based aid is to make their excellent education available to disadvantaged low-income kids. Suggesting that someone not go to an excellent school just because their classmates will be rich defeats the purpose of the financial aid system. Yes, it can be incredibly difficult. But that doesn’t mean kids shouldn’t go for it.</p>

<p>My daughter never had to worry about money, but she is incredibly frugal. She buys everything at yard sales and thrift stores or on sale. Her crowd at college was a mixed socio-economic group – kids on financial aid on up – but they never pressured anyone to eat expensive dinners out or wear fancy clothing. She could have eaten out, but opted for cafeteria meals because those were already paid for – and her social life didn’t suffer.</p>

<p>And, surprise! howsefrau – she went to Brown, that place with “one of the worst crowds of pompous a$$ snobs on the planet.” Maybe that was just said to make this waitlisted student feel better, but I think it was uncalled for, and simply not true.</p>

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<p>I went to a very rich-kid college and as I got to know some of these kids from tremendous wealth, I found many to be genuinely nice. It’s not the money, it’s the parenting- and poor parenting crosses all socioeconomic lines. </p>

<p>You have to realize that nowadays, at many, many top colleges, the percentage of kids on aid, even substantial aid, is huge. Look at the figures for the Ivies.</p>

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<p>but they never pressured anyone to eat expensive dinners out or wear fancy clothing</p>

<p>Again…NO ONE is saying that those with more money “pressure” anyone or even ever SAY anything bad to other kids. </p>

<p>I have a couple of very wealthy friends. They never say things like, “hey, how come you don’t buy a private jet like we have?” lol…but, if many of my friends had such jets and were frequently (but without any attitude) and casually mentioning things like, “We flew to Bermuda last weekend,” or “It just snowed in Colorado, so we’re heading to Aspen tomorrow the skiing will be awesome,” I’d start to feel a little wishful (not much, cuz I’m an old lady…lol…but if I were young, I might be feeling green.")</p>

<p>These more affluent kids aren’t saying, “hey, why don’t you have a purse like mine?” or “let me know when you’re free and I’ll make you a mani/pedi appt with my manicurist.” No, these kids aren’t insensitive morons. But the fact that they’re walking around with their regalia is what often bothers the “have-nots.”</p>

<p>Maybe some of you don’t remember some of the problems high schools had with “bussing”. Experts thought that by bussing low-income kids (for hours sometimes) to “better schools” that lower income kids would be so much happier. In the end, so many of these kids hated being amongst kids who had more than they did. At their old schools, they all were have-nots…but now the affluence was “in their faces” everyday.</p>

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<p>You have to realize that nowadays, at many, many top colleges, the percentage of kids on aid, even substantial aid, is huge. Look at the figures for the Ivies.</p>

<p>Yes, at schools that meet need, that is true. However, at pricey schools that don’t meet need, a student typically needs to come from some affluence in order to afford to attend (to cover gaps, and such). </p>

<p>Again…no one is suggesting that the affluent are mean…most have probably been raised VERY WELL with excellent manners. It’s not what THEY are saying, it’s what the low-income are FEELING.</p>

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<p>The truth is that it can be very stressful to attend a school where you see the glaring differences between students from high and low income families. Sometimes low income students are left feeling that they are not able to take in all that the college offers because they cannot afford to participate. This is also compounded if the student attends school in a high cost of living area, NYC, Boston etc. </p>

<p>This is not only the plight of the low-income but the middle income as well because many are paying full freight for tuition-room and board and it also leaves limited money for discretionary spending. </p>

<p>BU like NYU doesn’t have a college campus in the traditional sense, so there is a lot of “travel” around the city when it comes to having a social life. What happens if the friends want to go out to a club, hop in a cab where the student thought they were going in the neighborhood for pizza and doesn’t have the money for this kind of outing, or if they have the money, this kind of outing will put a major crimp in their budget for the next week/weeks.</p>

<p>BU has a cost of attendance set at $59,100
[Cost</a> of Education for Undergraduates Financial Assistance | Boston University](<a href=“http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/]Cost”>http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/)</p>

<p>the direct charges that OP would have to either pay or get covered by financial aid are </p>

<p>Tuition $42,400
Fees $594
Room & Board (most plans) $13,190</p>

<p>total 56,184</p>

<p>at this stage the only thing that the student is guaranteed with her 0 EFC is </p>

<p>5550 Pell
5500 Stafford loan</p>

<p>total 11,050
Lets give her work study that is the equivalent to her incidentals, </p>

<p>$1100</p>

<p>Even if she should get the 31k that she believes that she is entitled to this comes to $42,050. She will still have a 17k short fall which is the equivalent to her parents yearly income.</p>

<p>For kicks and giggles, she some how gets this 17k.</p>

<p>Student will have to get some kind of job to come up with some start up money, maybe about $2000 (probably more) because</p>

<p>[ul][li]Out of this $$ she’s gotta buy books and have incidental $ to hold her over until first paycheck. A job is not automatically waiting for student when she arrives on campus because even with work study there is still an application process, which takes time. Even when student does get w/s job it takes 2 weeks for initial check and they get paid every 2 weeks.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]We haven’t even calculated the cost of setting up the Room before they even get to campus. Need to purchase those XL sheets, comforters, and other basics. Where does this money come from?</p>[/li]
<p>[li]What if she needs a new computer for school (this is not out of the ordinary for a low income student who is probably using the family computer at home if that). Probably will take another loan to cover this expense.</p>[/li]
<p>[li] What happens if she is sick at school? They can go to student health but any prescriptions written must be paid out of pocket by student.[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>And clearly if a student wanted more travel $ (for local trips, for example), he/she could earn a little more to make more money available for the entire package of expenses.</p>

<p>The family of the low income student is probably using every resource they have available (including extended family, church etc) just to make the basics happen because for them this is a dream come true for the student. </p>

<p>This kid is literally going to be a hamster on a wheel trying to keep everything going. So even with all of the generous FA, this can still be a financial burden to the family.</p>

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<p>

Where is the evidence for this belief? And to compare the diverse socioeconomic representation at colleges and universities to forced integration or other bussing is, IMO, off the mark.</p>

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<p>I WAS a low income student. I attended an expensive private school my freshman year. I LOVED it there…and my reason for transfering had to do with my intended major…they didn’t have it.</p>

<p>My freshman year roommate’s family owned an OIL COMPANY. She never mentioned money at all…I’m not sure how I even found out what her family did. She was very down to earth. She had beautiful things and lots of money. I was a waitress in the dining hall…and had very little.</p>

<p>Sophomore year I transfered to a state school in my home state. I was self supporting. My roommate there was more wealthy than the first…something I really didn’t know until about 8 years after we graduated from college when I attended her society wedding. I had been to her house numerous times and her family was wonderful. </p>

<p>There were many things these friends were able to do that I could not do. One got an extended trip to Europe for college graduation. I was offered a job waiting tables for a relative. I was thrilled to have some money. She was thrilled to go on her trip and I still have the beautiful gifts she brought back for me.</p>

<p>I do think some kids will feel left out, or feel they can’t do some of the more pricey things…but really, they will find friends with whom to socialize who LIKE to do the things they like to do.</p>

<p>We are comfortable financially, but my DD’s favorite weekend activity was watching a movie with friends in the house or dorm. Sure, she went out…but she also stayed in. She wasn’t the only one.</p>

<p>Even now, I have friends who are much more financially solvent than I am. They are still my friends. Our friendships are not based on what we have…or don’t have.</p>

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<p>Someone else may need more than you do. His/her income may be less than yours and may also have better score? The FA takes a lot of thing into consideration.</p>

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<p>

I’m not sure what your point is, other than it worked ok for you. And it may well be fine for the op - I think no one should discourage her from trying if it’s what she wants. At the same time, I don’t think it’s wrong to point out that sometimes the reality is not what we perhaps expected.</p>