<p>My D took the CC placement tests after her soph yr of HS. She did poorly on the math due to having to take it on the computer and because she was not allowed a calculator. Due to LD her math facts recall is slow and it definitely hurt her.
It sounds like your S did not take his placement exams in a timely manor and was not prepared. Check if the CC has a testing office and see if they can tell you how lose he was to passing. Some schools will allow one retest.</p>
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<p>Lots of high schools are poor enough quality that students who got A and B grades in high school “college preparatory” courses are often placed into remedial English and math courses in college. It would not be surprising if most college freshmen needed some remedial course work (even if one looks only at the subset attending four year schools as freshmen).</p>
<p>To the extent that public high schools are involved, it is a tremendous waste of public / government resources to teach the same subject twice (once in high school and then once in the community college or state university that most college bound students go). But the problem is not limited to public high schools – one very long thread around here involves an engineering student who was placed into remedial precalculus as a freshman after getting good grades in math at a private high school.</p>
<p>But at least your student is doing this remedial work at an inexpensive community college instead of a more expensive four year school.</p>
<p>" But at least your student is doing this remedial work at an inexpensive community college instead of a more expensive four year school."</p>
<p>^ I’LL say! Pm me f you want details about the kid in the long thread.</p>
<p>I think it’s well worth exploring your retest options first; if follow up proves that these test results are valid by all means take the remedial course work. It doesn’t seem from your description that he was in a good frame of mind to take the test when he did. Some kids are willing to put off any testing until the last possible moment, not good for their test scores of course, but it’s not uncommon behavior among 17 year olds.</p>
<p>Discussed this. He said that it wasn’t that big of a deal anymore and that he will just work harder & take summer courses also to play catch-up. He also had to do it on the computer with a piece of paper and a pencil with no calculator. Called for a retest and explain and they said no can do. Watcha gonna do? & he wants to be some sort of engineer, not precisely mechanical, probably civil engineer for the long run is what he thought.</p>
<p>I seriously can’t imagine being an engineer and failing a math test. I got a near perfect score on my math SAT (although my math 2 SAT subject test was not nearly as good), and I don’t think my math skills are up to par to be an engineer. Just keep in mind that algebra is not that hard compared to calculus and above.</p>
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<p>I’ve heard from some students that there are profs and math classes out there (generally for math heavy majors) where calculators are not allowed in the earlier math classes. The reason is that so many students have learned how to push buttons, but don’t really know the math they need. It’s good to get used to doing the math by hand - just in case.</p>
<p>If he’s going to be any sort of engineer, being strong in math is a must. It’s annoying that he needs to learn what should have been covered in high school, but again, it’s not unusual. The school I was talking about earlier (our local school) tests right around average for the nation. There are many schools like it out there, and a fair number that are worse.</p>
<p>If he has a good work ethic, he can still reach his dreams. Being from a subpar high school doesn’t end the world, but it can be a shock and require a quick mental adjustment to the “real” academic world when one reaches college. Make sure he knows it’s not “bad” nor does it make him “stupid” if he needs to use your school’s tutoring center due to the speed of the class. It actually makes him “smart” IME.</p>
<p>A good math understanding/foundation ought to get him started well with just a minor delay. Not having one will derail his engineering dreams.</p>
<p>what math and english classes did your child take in HS? What was the math series, and what level? Any AP english, and how many years of english?</p>
<p>A failed placement test is not a bad outcome. </p>
<p>The real bad outcome is if a student goes into a course that he’s not prepared for. </p>
<p>The quality of high school courses varies, and even if a course is well taught, sometimes students may earn good grades despite a shaky understanding of some of the material. In such cases, taking the same subject over in college may be very wise. Placement tests are designed to detect such situations so that students can correct them.</p>
<p>My son, who had taken AB Calculus in high school, took the math placement test for his university and was told that he would have to take precalculus over. He also needed to take first-semester calculus over because he had only gotten a 3 on the AB test. So he spent his entire freshman year retaking math courses that he had taken in high school. </p>
<p>In an ideal world, of course, he would have truly mastered the content of those courses in high school, and taking them over would not have been necessary. </p>
<p>But we don’t live in an ideal world. In the real world, his understanding of both precalculus and first-semester calculus was shaky. </p>
<p>He retook the courses and went on to successfully complete a computer science major, with honors, to get a master’s degree in computer science, and to start a career as a software engineer. I don’t think any of this would have happened if he hadn’t had that second chance to fully learn some fundamental math.</p>
<p>Getting an A or B in an easy class doesn’t mean much. People confuse getting good grades with getting a good education. What did he get on his ACT/SAT tests, how well did he do on his AP exams? Since that is the only benchmark we have nationally to compare college preparation in high schools, it’s a good indicator of how well your high school prepared the kids for college or how well your child will do in college. Most kids would be much better off with a B in a very challenging class than an A in an easy class, however parents don’t get that so schools dish out A’s to satisfy parents.</p>
<p>My son attends a well known private college and is a business major.
The university gives its own math placement tests to all students with less than a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam.</p>
<p>My son’s advisor seemed very frazzled when we ran into him at Starbucks later in the day (he recognized my son and came over to say hello, and then sat with us). He said that about half of the students he had met with that day of orientation had not placed into the required calculus course, and that a good number of students had not even placed into the class immediately beneath that class…meaning that a good number of students were effectively going to be a full year behind in their curriculum because calculus was a co-requisite or pre-requisite for a good number of the required courses. </p>
<p>He had met with a lot of very upset students…and then with their parents. These were all top students in high school with excellent grades and test scores.</p>
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<p>A shame on the high schools for failing to teach the needed college preparatory material. A student who did well in the expected precalculus course in high school should be ready for calculus in college.</p>
<p>Perhaps colleges should post math and English placement test results by high school. I.e. what percentage of freshmen from each high school placed into remedial course work. Perhaps more finer grained for larger high schools, divide it up by highest math and English course completed in high school and what grade received there. Then publicize the results so that parents can ask the high schools questions like “why are students getting A grades in precalculus at this high school having to retake the same course in college?”.</p>
<p>I would have him take the remedial courses only if he really bombed the placement tests. I was only off by 1 point and had to take the remedial english course before starting college. I was not a what I needed. It did not bridge the gap for me between college and high school. My teacher did not understand why I was in the course because I understood all the material he was teaching already. </p>
<p>I was told to take the remedial math too because I score 1/2 point off(not sure how they got the test score). I told them no that I was not going to take remedial math. That the remedial english was a waste of time. I took college algebra instead and I received an A in the class. </p>
<p>You kid should make the call.</p>
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<p>By “college algebra”, do you mean a remedial course equivalent to high school algebra 2, or abstract algebra for math majors proving things about groups, rings, and fields?</p>
<p>^ I think you know the answer to that UCB.</p>
<p>This year we had 3 students who got a 4 on the Calc AB exam and As with a tough calc teacher place into Pre-calculus at Purdue. It is a blow to them, but they are all going for math-intensive programs and are willing to make sure they have the foundations for success. I have to wonder about the placement test though.</p>
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Amen! I’ve been there, and have the dunce cap to prove it. Unless the test is an anomaly, don’t encourage him to push himself into a more difficult course.</p>
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<p>At my school the only thing that students (and parents) worried about was taking AP Calc. If a student got less than a B in any math class, their parents would complain and demand extra credit. I think the real shame is on colleges for valuing the “name” of a math class instead of actual knowledge. It was just a game.</p>
<p>Are these binding or just recommended? If he refuses to take these and just starts in Freshman level English and Calc 1 will he be given a diploma eventually? My school can recommend you start with remedial chemistry and remedial math based on placement test scores, but you can just ignore it and start with whatever you want. Does this school operate differently? If so can he ask to retake the placement tests, do some studying and/or show up well slept?</p>
<p>In our school we have students who get As in Calculus yet test into PreCalc (same class as College Alg BTW) at college. We don’t offer AP any longer - rarely had a student who could score a 2 - 3 (AB), much less higher (a few did, but not many - we were lucky if we got one 4 or 5 in any given year). But now, they can get college credit for the course since it’s a dual enrollment agreement (IF the college they are going to accepts the credit).</p>
<p>There are two different types of As out there. The one that is good means the student knows/understands the material. The other means the student has either been good at memorizing enough for tests, then cleans their memory for the next chapter, and/or the material being tested is subpar for college, but they know the subpar info good enough. The former means one is well prepared for college. The latter just gets good grades in HS.</p>
<p>I think colleges who use math placement tests are smart personally. It helps distinguish between students. Yes, there may be a false test here or there, but I suspect in general it does far more good than bad.</p>