Family Falling Apart

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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Seems like some would like some of the history and more complete picture. SIL#1 is 2 yr older than wife. SIL#2 is 11 yr younger than wife. We met in college got engaged and 1 yr after graduation we got married and lived happily ever after.

SIL#1 married a yr before us. They had first grandchild. Both parents worked and MIL watched baby 5 days a week. My D19 came 16 months later. Wife went part-time and MIL watched D19 for 16 months two days a week. Wife quit and stayed home with child. SIL#1 divorced when niece was 4 or 5. SIL#1 and niece had to move in with in-laws. Soon D23 was born. SIL#2 was progressing through HS and went to college.

Worth noting everyone went to college and we all had debt. Wife and I were able to pay off debt before having kids. We call those years living in poverty. Not 100% about the time of debt payoff of the other two. I note that because some of the debt was direct to parents.

In laws would rarely come to us but we could always bring kids to them. That meant if wife had a doctor appointment she had to drive kids to MIL drop them off and go and come back for kids. Also partly because they were watching my niece everyday.

When D23 was 3ish SIL#2 got married. When niece was around 11 SIL#1 got her own place. FIL had retired by then. FIL would help niece get to activities. D19 was a swimmer. In-laws would come once a year at most. MIL would even make comments that she wished D19 wouldn’t swim so much.

SIL#2 ended up having two girls. The In-law daycare was back in business 5 days a week. D23 started to play basketball and In-laws would never come. They did come to a couple band concerts.

My wife at times needed help and it was always a major ordeal. There were school plays that in-laws missed due to watching the others.

Also distance is not an issue.

We had a Chuck E Cheese party for D23 bday once and SIL#2 was going to be a helper with the kids. Wife was scared a bit. SIL#2 bailed for a trip. There was also another bday for D23 they missed for a hockey game. Missing family bday gatherings was a no no. They tried to make it up to her by taking her to a movie. We told them she wasn’t ready. Well we were right and she lasted 10 mins. They pivoted and to her to a ceramic place where you paint something and come back later to get it after firing. They never went back for it.

Just painting a picture of how my girls got the least amount of attention from grandparents and it was obvious.

My wife started working part-time and eventually full time. Good hours for the kids though. But one summer D19 had extra swim practices during the day. At that time the kids were home along in the summer. We asked FIL if he would come over to take D19 to practice and watch D23 during that time. It was goi g to be 8 or 9 times. He declined. I had to get a swim parent friend to do it.

So even though we had what appeared to be a good support system close to us we had virtually nothing.

As far as BIL was concerned I tried to do normal things with him. Golf a few times. Went to a game. Overall myself and my wife felt as we were not cool enough for then younger ones.

I am no saint but BIL is an a$$. My girls loathe him. One recent Xmas the girls weren’t helping enough with clean up he thought and he let them know it. Ironically the next Easter everyone is helping me with clean up no problem even his littler ones.

The dog issue came and my wife just reached her breaking point. There were many other things the played into but this is already long.

Like I said before we are tired of games.

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142

Thanks for the further background info!

FIL took niece (D of SIL1} to activities. Did he also take children of SIL2 to their activities? Also, did he and MIL insist that your wife’s sisters also take their kids to their house to watch them, or was it only your wife that had to take your girls to their house?

I may have missed this, but what (if anything) did FIL say about the dog incident at SIL2’s house? And is he demanding that the entire family get together for his birthday?

Is your wife close with her older sister? Is all the dysfunction only with this (far) younger sister of theirs?

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And one more clarification-- these are your wife’s sisters, right? Just trying to understand if she has been treated as less within in own family or within yours.

It sounds like resentment has been building for a long time. Really sorry, OP! So hard!

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144

I’m not sure the particulars are that important. Sounds like there is lots of history and lots of feelings.

They are your feelings and it sounds like protecting yourself is what’s important for your (wife’s) mental and physical health. Sounds as if there has been lots of pressure to conform. That’s difficult in itself.

This thread has made me think about my own experience. And although I certainly feel guilt in the decision I’ve made to separate myself from the crazy, I just couldn’t live with how I felt when I gave in. Conformed. Put up with the absolutely insane situations. Making boundaries helped me. I hope they help your wife.

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145

A gift link to a good answer by Carolyn Hax: https://wapo.st/3UPPVXw

The letter writer was sure she was in the right in the situation.

Carolyn’s conclusion: "Here’s what you can control: you. You can recognize your niecely anger as the catchall for your distress. You can choose to release it. You can apologize to everyone, unstintingly. You can likewise forgive everyone, niece first.

You can borrow her goal, if not her methods, and act inclusively, hereafter, without fail. Being right won’t get your family back, but being humble just might."

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146

I read it - and I completely disagreed with Carolyn! I mean, I obviously get her point, but I think she’s wrong. No way would I just go and apologize. A meet up to discuss - yes.

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So it sounds like your wife has some middle child syndrome issues, aka feels invisible, but also wants to, and/or is expected to, be the peacemaker. I’m that person, and I had a lot of issues with it in high school. I’m mostly over it, but oh yes… I have my hot buttons…

I was the kid who did everything right… My parents didn’t play favorites, per se… but I often felt ignored. I once tried to gently bring it up as an adult, and my mom (defensively said) that it seems I was fine, so she left me alone. I could obviously take care of myself, so she focused on taking care of the others. Could it be that maybe her parents were the same way?

But ignoring the grandkids is hard… Fortunately, we haven’t had that really. One grandkid is obvious the favorite, but IMO they kind of deserve it. They like to spend time with them. And OTOH while it seems my parents never make a fuss about mine, another grandkid mentioned that that’s all he hears about - how wonderful mine are. So I guess you never know.

Nevertheless, it doesn’t sound like Dad has been the model father to your W for a long time. I can see why she’s resentful. If she needs a year away from the whole group gathering thing, so be it. Focus on you two, and maybe down the road she will be in a better place.

@oldmom4896 has some fabulous posts BTW!!!

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148

I couldn’t disagree more with Carolyn.

The problem with toxic people is that you can conform. You can relent. You can even apologize.

But then the next issue comes up. And the next. And the apology is weaponized against you. You are the weak link and they can now capitalize on that.

You the person wronged (and the poster absolutely had the right to move in her own time) will be marked as being too emotional. Too triggered. Too overreacting.

Maybe not every situation is like this. Not every family member. But a toxic person will work and manipulate against you.

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149

Yeah, there’s a whole lot to unpack there. Realistically, none of your family’s hurt is ever going to be acknowledged or healed.

So it was never really about SIL2’s dog. It was about all the other stuff. The dog was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Choose your family’s boundaries. Regularly reinforce them. People like your ILs won’t ever understand why you have the boundaries that you do.

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150

There was a lot of family hurt in my family. Lots of boundaries that needed to be set out of self protection. Outsiders have no idea what happened behind closed doors and there was a lot of judgement. I’m all for people doing what they need to do to stay emotionally and physically safe .

Hopefully your wife can find a way to protect herself while still maintaining a relationship with her family. There are ways to do both, but it’s not easy.

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151

If it was me, I would not plan on going to the sister and jerk brother-in-law’s house with the dog again. No need for that.

But I would not cut off the rest of my family and miss important events that are held elsewhere over it.

I would reduce the number of times I see people. I would only go for the most important events — a parent’s birthday being one of those. Other important events might be a graduation or maybe a holiday meal not at Sis and BIL’s.

And honestly I dread getting family invitations to stuff because I hate parties and find it all very stressful but I go once or twice a year to keep up the relationships. If my dad was still alive and I was invited to his birthday party you can bet I would go even if I was fighting with my sister or brother.

Also comparing only leads to hurt feelings. You can only control your actions, not those of others. Take what is freely given, be grateful for it, and get on with your own lives.

I had almost no help from in-laws or family when my kids were little. They didn’t live in the same town and weren’t in good health. My grandparents were even farther away when I was little. I think your wife and you have had an expectation that your in laws would provide free baby-sitting for you and have compared with the other sisters too much. Nothing good comes from that.

I don’t know the situation as well as you but I can see where some grandparents would be overwhelmed to have a daughter and granddaughter move back home and to be asked to do even more childcare for another daughter who was married with a good husband would just be too much.

BTW, were your own parents able to provide any childcare for your kids?

Also BTW, I agree with Carolyn Hax in the Washington Post today. The letter writer made it all about herself but it was really about her daughter she gave up.

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152

I definitely think comparison is the thief of joy.

But this isn’t about the dog, or the baby sitting inequities or any specific swim meet attended.

Fundamentally, it seems clear that OP’s wife doesn’t feel she or her children have been valued or cared for by her larger family, specifically the younger sister and the parents. It doesn’t matter if any of us would feel differently under the same scenarios. It doesn’t matter if we could shrug it off or if we would cut the family off without further interaction.

She is in pain and trying her best to figure out how to move forward. OP, I wish you and your wife the best as you both figure this out.

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153

If we were to ask the toxic sister and the (presumably deceased?) grandma, we’d be getting an entirely different narrative I suspect- which is why role-playing can be so helpful in these situations.

Grandma and grandpa saw a daughter with a toxic marriage and then a single parent situation. Perhaps they feel guilty for not pointing out to the D all the reasons why she shouldn’t marry the guy? And it ended up in their lap anyway. So do you kick out your grandchild?

Grandma and grandpa saw a daughter (the OP’s wife) with a supportive husband and concluded “we did right by that one!”

Grandma and grandpa tried to show up for swim meets, performances, etc. Maybe OP’s kid ignored them- they felt hurt that when they did there best to “be there” the kid nodded and that was it? They were used to the parade and confetti they got from the other grandchildren?

Etc. None of us know. But ask any family therapist- these situations are usually not one kid getting iced out just because the parents are mean SOB’s (the mean ones are terrible to ALL the children and grandchildren-- they’d have told the divorced sister 'go figure it out on your own" when she asked to move in.) There is usually misinterpretation, a random careless comment which sets the drama in motion.

OP- you sound like a gem and your wife is lucky to have you in her corner.

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154

I agree, I’ve seen this situation so often that I think I’m going to beg my children (who don’t have children yet) to please don’t keep score. Our oldest has already expressed that it wasn’t fair that we were stricter with her than #4/#5. We were older, I think we were actually better parents who learned what worked and what didn’t. I know my parents tried so hard to be far with the grandkids, but we lived a 2 minute drive vs. a 2 hour flight, so it could never be equal. My IL’s love a hour away, rarely came to games or shows (and there were TONS), never babysat, and that’s fine, it was their choice, they are 95 and there is zero resentment, although I do think they have regrets based on things they’ve said.

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155

When we had our first we planned for my wife to go part-time immediately and we both knew she would eventually stay home. MIL watched our first for about 16 months 2 days a week. We were never looking for free daycare. Free daycare is what the other two sisters got and that ended up being at the expense of my kids having a closer relationship with their grandparents.

By the time SIL#1 divorced my wife had started to stay home.

After college I moved away from my family for work. We are 800 miles from my family.

I know time/attention is never going to be split evenly by grandparents with three children, but being on the short end of the stick for 20+ years is a tough pill to sallow. Especially when there were some times we could have used a hand it was met with either a no because of the others or it blew up into a big ordeal.

Some of the best days of our lives was when the kids could stay home alone for extended times or when they were old enough to get themselves to their activities. Basically when we no longer needed a hand/help from others whether it was family in a huge pinch or having to deal with carpools with friends. Eventually there would be a let down from friends or family made you feel terrible for asking. We had gotten past that part of our life for awhile now. Life was more calm. My wife even went back and got her Masters somewhat recently and progressed in her job.

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My heart breaks for you and your wife- lots of sadness here.

But again- try role playing this-- your wife had the luxury of first going part time, then staying at home full time, then getting a Master’s degree. That means a certain amount of financial flexibility (i.e. being married to a guy-- YOU-- with a stable income). Don’t you think your sister-in-law ever looked over at her sister and thought- “Why does she get to stay home with her kids while I am grinding out at work?”

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157

This.

And this.

So many expectations of others that weren’t met. No one has any obligation to meet your expectations, not parents, not siblings. Sounds to me like the butt-hurt is due to expecting treatment that experience has shown will never come. Wise up. Move on.

(I’ve read every post. I want to be sympathetic but I’ve experienced much worse than what the OP describes and learned to ignore and move on. It only takes one instance with me, I don’t care who you are. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)

OP has gotten enough advice here for a book. Share with your wife, let her decide which path she wants to take that doesn’t include any apologies or changed behavior from others, take it, and don’t look back.

Yes, I’m a hardass.

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Again comparison is the thief of joy. It sounds like y’all could not stop comparing with the other sisters. If it makes you feel any better (I doubt it will) you had way more help than I or many other people ever had from either set of grandparents.

But that is all in the past. You need a plan of action moving forward.

First let go of that resentment. No one can go back in time and measure it out equally now. You only have the present and the plan for your actions in the future (which is another kind of present). Recognize this foremost.

It sounds like the brother-in-law was a real jerk, but take a tip from Michelle Obama and when they go low, you go high. That does not mean rolling over and not setting boundaries, just means being clear and calm. Consider these two made up scenarios.

(After asking again for the dog to be put away at the sister’s house)

Brother in law (angrily): “If you don’t like it you can just leave!!”

Wife: (now also angry): “Fine! We will!”

vs

Brother in law (angrily): “If you don’t like it you can just leave!!”

Wife: (now also angry, but taking a minute, to remain polite and calm): “Okay. Well, thanks for asking us to come over. I’m sorry that we couldn’t stay longer, but maybe next time we can see everybody somewhere else.”

You can still set boundaries without burning bridges.

Going forward if it was me I would go to the birthday party for Dad at a neutral location. If Jerk Brother-in-law brings up the dog I would maintain that “sorry we couldn’t stay longer” line.

If he or the sister or the Dad bring up something about “It’s so stupid to be scared of dogs. Fluffy just barks and growls and jumps a little. You should really get help for that. You’re dumb to be scared of dogs. Nobody else is!,” just maintain the cool, and say “It’s so nice to meet here at the restaurant so we don’t have to worry about the dog affecting me or Daughter’s allergies.”

On the other hand, if your wife feels like she just won’t be able to keep her cool and is liable to lash out, then maybe skipping the party is for the best, but that would be a last resort for me because it will layer on the resentment from the others. I would try to go, make a brief appearance, and come prepared with an excuse to leave early if you have to.

If you don’t go to the party you need to send regrets in advance. ‘Sorry Dad we can’t make it this year, but just wanted to wish you a happy birthday and hope we can get together another time.’

Build some boundaries by being clear and calm and polite. You can’t go back in time and make things “fair” or even. Only now, and plans for the future.

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One thing my mom said to my sister and I, before even had kids, was that she was looking forward to being a grandmother, wanted to spend a lot of time with future grandkids, but even if she wasn’t employed, she would never be their regular caretaker. He wanted to enjoy them, not be a babysitter. It all worked out (I was a SAHM mom), and she would get insulted when we discovered the joys of paying teenagers to watch our kids sometimes (my mom really liked to go to bed no later than 10 pm). We were so happy to be able to stay out late! I feel the same way, I’d watch my grandkids for a short term period if necessary but do not want to be the regular childcare.

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OP- at the stage of life where you were getting childcare twice a week for 16 months, I had responsibility for medical decision making AND financial assistance for elderly in-laws. Childcare? I would have been thrilled if another family member had stepped in to say “Hey, let me pay this month’s rent for mom and dad, you guys have been doing everything else”.

It’s all relative when it comes to family, no?

But life is not a pity party. I’ve got a friend who buried two parents when she was in her 30’s… one died of Huntington’s, the other ALS. Sure kept me from kvetching about how expensive/time-consuming etc. my family obligations were. Imagine knowing that you are in a high risk pool for a terrifying disease just when you have young kids of your own?

Hugs to you. Sounds like you are both comfortable not seeing the SIL and BIL for now and it’s great you are on the same page.

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