Fastest-Growing Ethnic Category at Great Colleges: "Race Unknown"

Applying to College
181

<p>Well, okay, it is consistent with what I said earlier to suppose that a college applicant looking for a diverse environment will look for a college that has diversity among its students. But that would be a self-sustaining form of student preference, if it is as commonplace as it is among the students I know. A college wouldn't have to have anything in the admission file indicating what ethnic group, say, a student comes from, if it can count on getting applications from every which kind of students, and if it knows that many of those students are happy to be with students from differing backgrounds. </p>

<p>Yes, we live in a neighborhood that is "integrated" in the usually meant ethnic sense. That is our consistent preference. I hear that there are still a lot of young people in the United States who grow up without neighbors of different ethnic heritage--which is their loss. If everyone from every which neighborhood is willing to apply to colleges far away of national reputation, and if those colleges admit young people with strong academic potential and good "roommate qualities," then I think students attending those colleges will not find the college tipping into representation of only one sex, or of only one or two large ethnic groups. Rather, the college will be a continuation of the situation my family already enjoys, living among people of varied background, and a new environment for young people who didn't grow up in such a neighborhood.</p>

182

<p>
[quote]
"But I reject the assumption that a college can't end up with a genuinely diverse group of students without an ethnically conscious admission process."</p>

<p>I do admire your idealism, but until we get there, I applaud colleges' efforts to increase their diversity to more closely match the general population. They do it because it works (meaning that it helps increase the mix).

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<p>I also reject this assumption. It has never made sense to me why the people who argue in favor of a race-based admission process are the same ones who claim that "diverse" students are as qualified as non-"diverse" sudents. Wouldn't that make race-based admissions pointless since "diverse" students are already as qualified? I think it does, but obviously others don't see it that way.</p>

<p>Why does everything have to "closely match" the general population? Isn't that a quota? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, quotas are illegal because of Bakke. But, apparently, "closely matched populations" aren't illegal. Interesting indeed.</p>

183

<p>I hesitate to join in here but I can't help but saying how pleased I am that there has been a significant increase in the applicant pool of African american /URM applicants to UC Santa Barbara and UC Davis. I think my D could go a lot of places but at this point a school with a better than 3 percent mix of African Americans , especially at that price and modicum of rigor will make a better fit. If UC Santa Barbara becomes the "place to be" for kids looking for more "diversity" in the UC sytem, good on them...</p>

184

<p>A race-blind admissions process can result in a racially-diverse student population only if 17-year-olds are somehow able to evenly distribute their applications and acceptances across all universities in a racially diverse manner. Otherwise, the admissions office must help them do it.</p>

185

<p>Private colleges do not (all) admit the most qualified (whatever that means); they admit those they want the most. Race is one factor they use, along with many others. They do not insure that admitted classes closely match the general population; it is, at best, a goal, what we would have if we had a truly color-blind society.</p>

186

<p>A couple side notes.</p>

<p>The difference between wanting well represented populations and a quota is that a quota requires a hard number and a consequence for not reaching that number. In which case adcoms would count up minority students and if they didn't hit that number they would admit more minorities until they did. If this was the case evidence would show in a practically identical number of minorities every year. (which is not the case as it fluctuates)</p>

<p>Second, the intent of state school AA programs, Before schools came to recognize the value of diversity in a student body, was a kind of forced integration/reconstruction. It ultimately forced schools to look in areas they wouldn't look before to find strong minority students, or face consequences. </p>

<p>What we are seeing now is that so many schools have become so competitive and are competing for the minority students, that the pool of highly competitive minorities is running out. </p>

<p>There are two paths that can be taken at this point. People revolt and seek to overturn AA. Or the state education systems are forced to overhaul themselves in order to produce more competitive minority students.</p>

<p>In a sense, the fact that the UC system is one of the only state systems with race blind admissions is in the long run good for the state, as long as all private universities are allowed to keep there programs. Because as we are seeing, the top minority students who are qualified to attend UCLA and UCB are turning those schools down because of the lack of diversity and scholarships they can offer targeted to them to schools like Stanford and the like. Ultimately this will result in the system pressuring the state to improve education in minority concentrated areas, which tend to have the poorest schools. </p>

<p>So while i don't agree with abolishing AA on principle, if it happens very very slowly (like one state every 5 years) and only in public universities, it could have the positive effect that AA intends to accomplish, which is forcing state school systems to improve public education and produce stronger minority students.</p>

<p>I also think that federal funding linked to meeting minority performance requirements would help speed up that change, but the supreme court ruled "quotas" unconstitutional, even though they aren't when it comes to education.</p>

<p>Though, the thing i dislike is when people who oppose AA, i can see what grounds they would oppose it on (equal vs. fair), fail to provide an alternative solution to the problem and also disagree that that alternative should be set up before AA is taken away (socioeconomic AA is not a solution, do some research).</p>

187

<p>
[quote]
<a href="#179">url=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1059721152-post179.html&lt;/a&gt;I do admire your idealism, but until we get there, I applaud colleges' efforts to increase their diversity to more closely match the general population. They do it because it works (meaning that it helps increase the mix).

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<p>vossron:</p>

<p>When will "we get there"? It was misinformation that got our society 'here'. Couldn't we use the antidote (information) to get us 'there'? A case can be made (is being made) that "getting there" will be accelerated by declining to "self-identify": </p>

<p>That very act of not self-identifying (which tokenadult documents is</a> as high as 15% at some schools) is a message from future stakeholders. Their message..."We want to be part of an institution that doesn't look us through a 'prisim' that segments and classifies." Furthermore, by declining to self-indentify they are discarding the 'prisim' and in effect "getting there" faster than the institution can with all its 'good' intentions.</p>

<p>The recommendation, to applicants/students reading this thread, that they decline to self-indentify has more merit than the bureaucratic</a> classification mechanism suggested by the Census Bureau. It will bring us all closer to the 'race inconscious' society that the 'The</a> Fastest-Growing Ethnic Category at Great Colleges' seeks.</p>

<p>**An appeal to all students/applicants: </p>

<p>Decline to self-identify and know that you contributed to Dr</a>. King's dream of being judged by the content of your character, rather than the color of your skin.**</p>

188

<p>Oooh! Playing the "Dr. King's Dream" Card....</p>

189

<p>Tyler,</p>

<p>Let’s use your description of the difference. A quota uses a hard number. A “well-represented” population does not use a hard number but rather is proportional to the general population. Proportional to what? A hard number. That this number may fluctuate annually does not change that for a given time point, it is fixed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Though, the thing i dislike is when people who oppose AA, i can see what grounds they would oppose it on (equal vs. fair), fail to provide an alternative solution to the problem and also disagree that that alternative should be set up before AA is taken away (socioeconomic AA is not a solution, do some research).

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<p>You mentioned California as an example of the good that happens when racial preferences are abolished. Educational institutions are forced to actually do work to solve problems as opposed to magically engineering classes that “closely match” the general population.</p>

190

<p>
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Oooh! Playing the "Dr. King's Dream" Card....

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<p>It's the ace of spades, as it should be.</p>

191

<p>
[quote]
That very act of not self-identifying (which tokenadult documents is as high as 15% at some schools) is a message from future stakeholders. Their message..."We want to be part of an institution that doesn't look us through a 'prisim' that segments and classifies.

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<p>Unfortunately, it is more likely 17 and 18 year old caucasians and Asians thinking they'll have a better shot at getting in if they don't self-identify. A purely selfish, rather than altruistic motive.</p>

192

<p>"It's the ace of spades, as it should be..."</p>

<p>Can I act like I know what he'd think too? Naw. I could never try that.</p>

193

<p>Affirmative Action is racist and unjust. I checked Caucasian on most of my applications for fear that if I checked "unknown" I would be grouped with the Asians.</p>

194

<p>
[quote]
A race-blind admissions process can result in a racially-diverse student population only if 17-year-olds are somehow able to evenly distribute their applications and acceptances across all universities in a racially diverse manner.

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<p>What's your definition of "racially diverse" here? I disagree with the statement as you have made it, but show me your work and maybe I'll change my mind.</p>

195

<p>
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it is more likely 17 and 18 year old caucasians and Asians

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<p>What is the evidence for this? It's very troubling to be in a discussion about an important public policy issue when facts are assumed rather than demonstrated.</p>

196

<p>How about "racially diverse" as "similar to the racial makeup of the country"?</p>

197

<p>If vossron's definition of "racially diverse" is agreeable to Bay, then my contention will be that a college can, and many colleges will, have a racially diverse group of enrolled students each year even if the college does not gather ethnicity information as part of the admission process. </p>

<p>If Bay has a different definition, I will respond to that in turn. I don't see any strict necessity for colleges to gather ethnic information from applicants to bring about what I agree is a desirable goal, a college enrolling all the various ethnicities in the country (if the college has a national draw) or in the state (if the college has a statewide draw). As this thread percolates, I'll tell a story about an experience I had with a teacher who was a freedom rider about how underrepresented minorities can be well served by a system of not asking about ethnic affiliations.</p>

198

<p>
[quote]
<a href="#191">url=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1059722477-post191.html&lt;/a> Unfortunately, it is more likely 17 and 18 year old caucasians and Asians thinking they'll have a better shot at getting in if they don't self-identify. A purely selfish, rather than altruistic motive.

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<p>If you look closesly at your assertion, you're saying that **"17 and 18 year old caucasians and Asians"<a href="your%20characterization">/b</a> are fearful of being discriminated against. If one accepts your argument, it's all the more reason to tear-down a system that engenders such fears. </p>

<p>As to selfish/altruistic motives, an applicant can have a selfish desire to be evaluated solely on merit and also be simultaneously conscious of the societal benefits of such a policy. So motives aren't necessarily dichotomous.</p>

<p>Additional Food</a> for thought :</p>

<p>
[quote]
...Why are so many more students declining to check a box? Theories abound, but the ACE researchers said that they really didn’t know. However, the data do cast doubt on some of the theories.</p>

<p>For example, some admissions officers who have noticed this trend in recent years have blamed the debate over affirmative action. Some white students, they speculate, may think that they stand a better chance of admission by not checking white. Or minority students, fearful that stereotypes may hurt their chances of admission, want to be vague about their status.</p>

<p>But Eugene L. Anderson of ACE’s Center for Policy Analysis, a co-author of the report, said that a third of the “no race” students are at community colleges, where open admissions means that there is no edge to be gained by being a minority or white student. And well over 500,000 “no race” students are enrolled at colleges that admit at least 75 percent of applicants — so there isn’t much of an admissions gain to be had...

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<p>And in some students</a>' own words:</p>

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[quote]
...Vivek A. Rudrapatna [Harvard] ’06 said that the belief that race is used as an admissions factor influenced his decision not to provide ethnic information on the medical school applications that he has been submitting this year. </p>

<p>“I’m of Indian ethnicity and we’re over-represented in the medical profession,” he said. “I wanted them to judge me on meritocratic grounds alone.” </p>

<p>On the other end of the scale, Charles J. Swanson [Harvard] ’08, who is “equal parts” white and African American, said he did not want to be the victim of positive discrimination. </p>

<p>“I didn’t want to get in just because I’m African American,” he said, “so I thought checking ‘other’ might be more appropriate in that respect as well.”...

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<p>If you're a student self-indentifying as 'unknown', please share your motive(s) here.</p>

199

<p>The latest version of the Minorities in Higher Education Report </p>

<p><a href="http://www.acenet.edu/AM/Template.cfm?Section=CAREE&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23716%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.acenet.edu/AM/Template.cfm?Section=CAREE&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23716&lt;/a> </p>

<p>has a lot of detailed numbers (all based on reports colleges make to the federal government) about the growth in college enrollment in all the reported ethnic groups, and the growth of the group "race unknown."</p>

200

<p>
[quote]
Decline to self-identify and know that you contributed to Dr. King's dream of being judged by the content of your character, rather than the color of your skin.

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</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's the ace of spades, as it should be.

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</p>

<p>Dr. King supported affirmative action, so if you are going to use the MLK card as the "Ace of Spades", it means you support affirmative action.</p>

<p>You can't say that someone is the ace of spades and then selectively support half of their opinion.</p>