My first child was a URM with a 35 ACT, perfect 5 scores on every one of six AP’s, high GPA (top 10% at an excellent private high school), state champion rower, ridiculous EC’s, etc. Rejected at every Ivy except Cornell. Eventually matriculated elsewhere. Now going through the same thing with my last child. Again, a URM with a 35 on ACT, good but not great GPA (A- average, top 20% in class at same HS), excellent AP scores, ridiculous EC’s, etc. This time not sure that it even makes sense to apply to any Ivy League schools. Don’t want to set another child up for disappointment. Just so sick of the madness of this process. Acceptance rates at the top schools seem to be shrinking every year, and the pressure on our children is becoming truly insane. Makes me long for the old days as the first in my family to go to college instead of the steel mill. My personal essay to Boston College was handwritten and unedited by any parent, guidance counselor or consultant. The SAT was a one-time event, and there were no prep classes. Wish it were that simple today.
I agree that the process is out of hand but disagree that every top student should be shooting for an Ivy. There are lots of great schools out there. If your DC wants to apply to 1 or 2 Ivies, go for it, but a balanced list and realistic expectations is the best way to avoid disappointment.
Yes, who cares about those silly Ivies who aren’t smart enough to admit your child!? Their loss!
Agree that there are lots of great schools out there. None of my kids have ever fixated on Ivies in particular. Really just needed to rant about the obvious: how intensely competitive the process has become. My own scores would not have opened any doors in the top 30 schools in the country. But the numbers game is so much crazier today.
It can be that simple. No one is forcing you to have ridiculous EC’s, tons of APs, and tutors/consultants to help write/edit essays. Just saying, let the kids be kids - they’ll find their way in life.
Judge- was it better in the old days when Harvard admitted a high percentage of its class by fielding phone calls from the headmasters at Groton and Exeter and just taking the men who were recommended? Was it better in the old days when it was easier to get into Princeton or Dartmouth- because literally half the planet (women) weren’t even eligible to apply?
I share the frustration you write about, but nostalgia for the good old days means nostalgia for something which was pretty pernicious when you think about it. I recently met two women who had graduated from the women’s college of an Ivy League university back in the 1950’s. They were put “on the floor” freshman year- the notorious floor. The pairings on this floor were patently obvious- there were a handful of Jewish women admitted- and they all got assigned to live 'on the floor", with another Jewish woman as a roommate. There were a handful of Af-Am women- again, paired off with each other, and put “on the floor”. There were four “international” students- which was hilarious, since three of them were American citizens, but they were “women of color” whose parents were from elsewhere, which got them tagged “international” and yup- got them assigned to “the floor”.
This was the system that made it easier (statistically) for a white 18 year old man with good grades to get into an Ivy League college. Admit a tiny percentage of “strivers” (which is what the women I met clearly were… superior students in every possible way, despite being first Gen, being “on scholarship”, and graduates of public high schools). It’s kind of hard to long for those days, no?
The good news is that there are dozens of colleges which were barely “on the map” outside their own region back then which have every bit the academic chops of the Ivy League. And many of these colleges would be over the moon to admit your son!
Judgejohn, I can understand the frustration. On a practical note, assuming that your second child might want to apply to the tops schools as well, might it be helpful to apply strategically? For example, a social science prospect might have a slight advantage, based on numbers, over an applicant in STEM majors. Also were you able to find out or guess what were deemed insufficient in your first child’s applications to the Ivies? Since grades, test scores, ECs and LORs are basically all set in place for the 2019-2020 application cycles, the only other element of the application that is still in your child’s hands is the crafting of the essays and short answers. Objective evaluation of the essays from a good essay service might be helpful.
Why sweat the Ivies? With so many great colleges and such evidence that students achieve great outcomes at all manner of schools, Ivy League is fine but not worth the psychological toll on you and your kid. Hopefully your kid enjoyed the academics and EC’s for themselves, not as a golden ticket to the Ivy League.
You are in the same situation as most parents of high achieving children. It’s a tough realization that it’s not good enough to donall rhe “right” things if you are shooting for highly selective goals. By their very nature, and definition , many who try for them will be turned down.
I’ve noticed in the past decade, maybe more, that “hooks” not necessarily catching as much. Used to be legacy, and a great resume would mean a certain in. I’ve seen many legacy students, even double legacy get turned down when they are right up there in their academic and ECs. Recruited Athletes? Depends upon the sport, how important it is to the college, how good the athlete is, and also the academic record. It’s not an auto admit just because of your athlete status. A coach will drop advocacy in a heartbeat if something a lot better comes along. URM? Yes, it helps in over all accept rates, absolutely. But that hook is only as good as the underrepresentation. I’m seeing that these candidates need double hooks along with sterling academic resumes to gain admittance.
It’s up you you and your student, particularly your student , as to whether to play this lottery or not I alway advise getting those safer schools secured early and then shoot for the stars, if you want.
It’s rare I read a subject and agree with all the responses but I agree with everyone ^. If you choose to have your child pursue the most exclusive schools in the country, be prepared for them to be excluded. You know what you’re signing up for, it’s not a surprise. There are tons of great schools suitable for a well-prepared, bright and motivated kids and if people would just stop thinking of everything in terms of “got into an Ivy / didn’t get into an Ivy” there would be far less frustration on the part of both parents and students.
I interview for a living (manage recruiting for a very large, global company) and in the last cycle, I met young grads who I thought were absolutely off the charts who had gone to colleges as varied as Albright, Rhodes, Earlham, Santa Clara, and Holy Cross, in addition to the list you would expect. I’ve met superstars from UT, U Alabama, UIUC, Pitt, Rutgers in addition to the allegedly “top” public flagships of Berkeley, Michigan and UVA.
It’s taken me decades to realize that the “top” 20 colleges in America is likely a list of 50-60 “top” colleges, and the list of “top flagship” state U’s is a lot more than three or four very famous public U’s which are expensive and impossible to get into from out of state.
I don’t think hankering for academic rigor is a bad thing- in fact, it was the core priority when my own kids were applying. But so much of what people are looking for has nothing to do with academics. And that sets off an arms race of its own.
I think it’s helpful for your kid if you can come up with pairs-- a kid who loves X college will also love Y college (where X is the reach and Y is the much easier admit). And we required our kids to find something to love about every single college we visited- even if it was only the ice cream in the dining hall. It created a halo effect around a whole bunch of schools which might have been tainted with “safety school syndrome”.
Am I misreading OP’s first post that says the oldest DID get into an Ivy?
“If you choose to have your child pursue the most exclusive schools in the country, be prepared for them to be excluded. You know what you’re signing up for, it’s not a surprise.”
For those who have followed CC it isn’t but for many parents it is. Some haven’t considered college since they applied. Since that time a lot has changed. A few in particular are a huge rise in the number of students applying, the common app and consequently students applying to a far larger number of schools. Add in grade inflation, test preparation and you have far more students who are perceived to be academically qualified. If you are evaluating college admission by old standards it’s easy to be disappointed.
I think it shows that affirmative action has worked over the years. URM used to get in if all the other stats were tops because the schools were focused on diversifying. They are where they want to be so no longer is the URM an automatic entry. There are also a lot more minorities applying to schools, many more students marking ‘2 or more races’ on their applications, second or third generation students whose parents graduated from college and who went to top suburban high schools and had the opportunity to have ‘crazy good EC’s.’
There are also far more students who have 35 ACTs or 1550 SATs than there used to be. Harvard could take an entire class of near perfect scores if it wanted to.
It’s a parent vent that many parents have when they misunderstand how the college process works. Many have kids being told how terrific those kids are, they are going to go to Harvard on a full scholarship. Colleges gonna be standing in line to get him to go there with full rides , ?
We know better From athletic recruiting to top students getting into most selective schools , to financial aid, to merit money, there are myths galore.
Cousins in our family finally have a decent student. Kid has a 3.5 and 1300 SATs. They/he being inundated with booklets, flyers , emails. Every school in the country wants him. They loftily wave away my offers to help them through this because he’s gonna get a free ride anywhere he wants. Right? Well , we know better but they don’t and they’ll be bitterly ranting when they realize that the only affordable options are commuting to cc or state U, which will be the case if they don’t really focus on getting some out of the box options.
So it happens a lot.
@OHMomof2 Yes, the OP’s first child “only” got into 1 Ivy.
What’s disappointing about getting into Cornell? I hear it’s a very good school.
Ivy League Cornell a disappointment!? Sheesh…please come back down to planet earth!?
Yup, just look at the increasing numbers of apps to tippy tops, versus the relatively stable number of seats available…and you get increasing competition.
And, as families only know their own high schools, they assume top performers there, even at an “excellent private school,” should have some given advantage.
Meanwhile, top colleges are looking for more than just top stats and what you think are great ECs. There’s a long app to fill out, usually a supp, and assuming is the downfall of many kids. It takes some work to figure one’s match and make the right presentation. People forget. They think it should be a slam dunk.
When we were at this, I saw the comment, about non-tippy tops: Where do you think top kids go, when they don’t get into a Top 20? Well, they go to all those colleges many think are beneath their kids. Those colleges are now populated by great, strong, driven top performers who raise the bar. Look beyond the obvious prestige names. Look at the programs they offer. Be wise.
The only person I ever worked with who got fired was the Harvard grad. I always share that with kids who are stressed and not feeling enough.