<p>=] Yay Wraider! [Hugs] =]]]] Thanks for knowing what feminists want!</p>
<p>So I need where the armpit hair ladies and bra burning are coming at</p>
<p>If they make themselves look like men, maybe then they can be less submissive and be treated as men</p>
<p>Hmm interesting</p>
<p>See, for a long time I was scared of saying I'm a feminist because I thought it meant doing the whole bra burning, hate men, etc. thing. But it's not. Feminism is just equal treatment - that I believe in.
Yet, I still shave where I should. Men I do at times curse, but no more than the regular girl would. The fact I don't like children is completely out of the feminist ideal - I don't like children because they're loud and obnoxious - not for some sort of "men don't have children therefore I shouldn't either" sort of thing.
I had a friend who is an extreme feminist - we were friends for about 4 years before she became extreme. We don't talk anymore because she drove me up the wall.
So, extreme feminism = bad.
Feminism = good.</p>
<p>=] Woot I agreed with Oneiros. ;D Extreme feminism are okay. Some are pain in the ass sometimes.</p>
<p>I'm not a feminist. IN the early 20th century, it was great. But now feminism is futile and annoying. What more do you women want? Jeez.</p>
<p>women do not deserve the same treatment as males; they are not males</p>
<p>that doesn't make them "inferior"</p>
<p>Exactly videogamerx2!!! Women have virtually the same rights as men in our capitalistic society here in the US. I would be more forgiving of feminists if they were protesting equal treatment of women in certain parts of Africa or the Middle East or something. In these places, the situation is despicable. Women can't even drive cars and they don't even have full voting privileges. If a Saudi woman heard that an American woman was complaining about getting paid slightly less than their male counterparts in the workplace, she would probably respond by saying "Be grateful that you can walk out of your house without having to wear a burka wrapped over your head *****!!!""</p>
<p>In all seriousness, I strongly believe the reason that women get paid less in the workplace than men is that they are more prone to quit their job or take an extended leave due to an extenuating circumstance(maternal leave, family issue, etc.) Employers feel that for men, the job is a more permanent gig. I agree that this is not necessarily right, but women have been traditionally stereotyped and it will take a long time before this stereotype is completely squelched. Progress is being made however and a lot has changed since the 1920's, when women couldn't even vote in the US.</p>
<p>My parents are also appalled to find out about some women in their workforce who regularly who blame their lack of pay or employment on gender inequalities. Hmmm, could it just be that the man who gets paid more than you or got the job instead of you is also more qualified and has more experience than you??? The day when certain women stop blaming their shortfalls on gender inequalities and start excelling in their respected professions instead, is the day when a man and woman will truly become equal in the eyes of the employer.</p>
<p>I am confident that if Elizabeth Cady Stanton visited our 21st century society, she would be very pleased and shocked at the progress tand level of gender equality present and that she would denounce estremist feminism to the greatest extent.</p>
<p>I'm sorry if I offended many of you, but I felt that I had to put my feelings and thoughts out briefly on this issue.</p>
<p>Hmmm....1. You obviously don't know much about Saudi law :)...2. You're basically saying that women should settle for getting paid 25% less than men in most career areas...being a male, I totally support EQUALITY for women...but these nuts have a point....you're NOT men...so you don't want to be treated like men...equality is good...but similar treatment isn't...for example....if a guy hits another guy....chances are....it'll turn in to a fight....now if a girl hits a guy....it WON'T turn in to a fight...if it did...feminazis all over America would be screaming over female-battery...also...if it's such an issue to be treated exactly like men, then would you really mind using the same public restrooms?...sorry to bring this out, but a majority of females i know would feel kinda uncomfortable. Sports....a male coach can slap a male player on the ass, but damned if he ever did it to a female, it'd be sexual abuse...not to mention many girls would feel uncomfortable with that anyways....equal pay, equal preference for employment/college admission...sure...why not?...who does it hurt?....getting treated exactly like men is just unrealistic...like videogamer said...YOU'RE NOT MEN.</p>
<p>also....not wearing a bra and not shaving is a total turnoff....girls expect guys to clean up their face, we just ask for legs and underarms....which don't hurt nearly as much when they get razor burnt...:)....</p>
<p>one more thing....women are inherently different than men :)...genetically....so whoever was like "blah blah ther're male designers and whatever" is just oblivious to BIOLOGY....HELLO....there's this little tiny thing called a Y CHROMOSOME....there's this other thing (for some ppl it's tiny some ppl it's big :p) called a p-e-n-i-s [mods you cannot suspend me for this cuz it's the proper anatomical term used in secondary school and universities ;)...not to mention it's not being used to demean anyone]...women have lots more estrogen, men have lots more testosterone, which makes their personalities, instincts, emotions, and responses different....women rag...men don't....we develop at different rates...we're DIFFERENT...we respond to others' actions differently, hence we will be treated DIFFERENTLY....this isn't the "gender inequality" or the "illegitimate dominance of men"...it's NATURE...you have a problem with nature?...take it up with the lil sperm and egg that you came from....</p>
<p>Ha ha that's funny. =] Thanks for making my day!</p>
<p>Heh Saudi Arabia doesnt have elections let alone women voting rights. However, the part about women driving is true. Women don't necessarily have to wear burkas in their homes as the home is usually separated. However, yes I do agree Saudi women have something to complain: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm%5B/url%5D">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm</a> </p>
<p>Heh Feminazis, I like that!</p>
<p>LOL Mahras. =] Feminazis lol awesome word. =] Poor guys.</p>
<p>Rush Limbaugh has been lambasted by the liberal newspapers for coining that term. I agree with nahrafsfa when it comes to women not shaving being a total turnoff, but as for not wearing bras, that is a total turn on! I will digress now for fear of banishment.</p>
<p>I think that women in America have a lot more freedom than women living in many of the countries in the world. It's disgusting to witness the abuse that is tolerated against foreign women, such as female genital mutilation, sex trade/forced prostitution, pedaphilia, spousal/domestic abuse, rape/molestation, brutal murders, etc. If I am considered a feminist for disagreeing with such violence, then let it be so. I'm not intimidated by the name calling, but I am frustrated that in the 21st century men partake in and allow these acts of violence as much as they did in early civilization. I am even more disturbed that women still tolerate these kinds of abuse. </p>
<p>As much as I consider American women to be more privileged than most, there remains much progress to be made. Man<em>of</em>fire, you mentioned that women are paid less because of liability on the job, but that you believe in equality. The fact that employers hold these stereotypes, such as leave-of-absence, that they assume will affect the work of all women is absurd. Just because a woman is a mother doesn't mean she will not be as valuable on the job in terms of productivity. Also, I doubt that ALL complaints from women and STATISTICS are based on women who are not as qualified as their male peers, anyways. Of course, such cases exist but not as prevelantly as you make them out to be.</p>
<p>Of course women and men are not the same physically. Its silly to think otherwise. I think it universally understood that there are innate physical differences between the two sexes and thus, social inequalities. For instance, as nahrafsfa accurately noted,</p>
<p>"if a guy hits another guy....chances are....it'll turn in to a fight....now if a girl hits a guy....it WON'T turn in to a fight" and that "a male coach can slap a male player on the ass, but damned if he ever did it to a female, it'd be sexual abuse" </p>
<p>I suppose the only problem is that all those who agree with the article misinterpret the concept of feminism. Webster dictionary states it as--></p>
<p>Feminism: 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests</p>
<p>Under the subject of feminism, EncartaEnclycopedia (2004 edition) says that women's rights are "rights that establish the same social, economic, and political status for women as for men. Womens rights guarantee that women will not face discrimination on the basis of their sex." </p>
<p>Indeed, referring back to nahrafsfa's statements, people oftentimes confuse equality with the literal meaning of same or similar treatment. When your a female, getting slapped on the ass by your male coach is DEMEANING. Moreover, because men are techichnically stronger than women physically, that is why in most cases it is UNFAIR when a man beats a women. </p>
<p>Feminism is not about being a "[feminatz]" "armpit hair [lady] and bra burning", as one poster described. It's about women wanting an equal playing field as men have, which they don't if "women have a median income that is just 3/4 that of men" (encarta2004). </p>
<p>Feminism is about TREATING women EQUALLY in the sense of giving them EQUAL FAIR treatment like men. Do NOT confuse that with being merely TREATED SIMILARLY or the SAME. </p>
<p>Agreeably, the realization of women's rights have progressed throughout the years. This progress doesn't change the fact that women do not have "political, economic, and social equality" as men do. And yes, perhaps they never will. But who said striving toward an ideal is a bad thing?</p>
<p>If Civil Rights activists and Women Suffragist had accepted the unfair status quo of their respective eras, nothing would have been accomplished.</p>
<p>Thus, I understand the need for feminism; there still is a need for feminism.</p>
<p>Sorry if I came off a little strong. X_X It just angered me that people perceive feminists as these crazy-superliberal-hairy-braless-angry women but that isn't what feminism is about, particularly today (different story during the late 60s/early 70s, of course). Today's feminists are considered--what has been coined--neofeminists. They don't mind they are women (in fact they embrace it!) and understand they cannot (and probably don't want to (jkjk)) be men.</p>
<p>Great posts, El Padrino.</p>
<p>As for the last one - ever seen Legally Blonde? Women can be smart and themselves. A lot of the feminist movement is towards ensuring that women don't have to be men to be successful. As Ellen Goodman said, "Girls who just wanna have fun can make Law Review. It's possible to do hair and torts."</p>
<p>I don't disagree that women don't necessarily need men to be successful, but if they want to start a family, they need a man in their life.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't disagree that women don't necessarily need men to be successful, but if they want to start a family, they need a man in their life.
[/quote]
That's false...
well..at least in my opinion...</p>
<p>I think the bottom line is that we cannot expect men and women to be the same, but they should be treated equally when they pursue the same things. For example, it doesn't bother me that there are more men in the sciences and in business, because I am willing to accept that, whether culturally or biologically (which one is, to me, a moot point), men and women are inclined towards different fields, and maybe even more apt at different things. On the other hand, it does bother me that often women are given unfair treatment when they attempt to enter these fields.</p>
<p>Feuler - there is a reason that I was a successful engineer, love the sciences, and left. </p>
<p>IMO, it's not inclination, unless you mean inclination for macho punishment. A lot of male-dominated fields are increasingly more macho (for example, consider the increasingly long tenure tracks and partner tracks, and longer hours worked), which is often a method to discourage women from getting into and staying in those fields.</p>
<p>I know quite a few women who are really enjoy business, law, and the sciences, but ended up leaving because the environment was so hostile to them and they were not being treated equally as men (i.e. promotions, raises, salary, etc).</p>