<p>I am in love with many aspects of Harvard and I'm almost ready to enroll. However, there are a few things that still really concern me. First, I don't at all like the sound of final clubs. I don't mean to offend anyone who is a member, but I've read some pretty awful things about them (elitism, accusations of date rape, etc). How prominent are they on campus and to what extent (if any) do they dominate in the social scene? Are there a lot of people who avoid them altogether? Second, I'm worried that at a place like Harvard there might be a lot of snobby/pretentious kids or uber-competitive kids that care only about themselves. How common is this?</p>
<p>I had a few similar thoughts when I was considering Harvard.</p>
<p>I have two friends that attend now, and I asked them about the presence of elitism on campus. They said they know about it and have heard it is there; however, they both have yet to encounter it (though they’re both only first years). Some older students they know also said it’s not even necessary to make the effort to avoid it on campus, and if it is necessary, it’s not difficult. I also read a student blog that said something similar to that (I can’t find it at the moment). I never asked specifically about finals clubs.</p>
<p>I never really worried about it, and would suggest you do the same. If you think about the percentage of class that would even be considered part of the ‘old money’, it’s less than 1/5 of the class. Out of that number, not ALL would be arrogant about alleged social status. Even from there, there would be the number that knew they got in with low scores compared to the ‘merited’ proportion. These people would mostly keep to themselves. Obviously these people-types are only suspected, but if you think about the setting (in a city) and the fact that there is an interview aspect (which, as it appears to me, does a good job of suspecting possible ‘snobby’ types), you should not be worried of encountering many people and having them dominate you four years there. </p>
<p>Besides, even if the school was dominated by these types, Kafka once said, unless we make the effort to read and do things that put us in an uncomfortable state of mind, it’s impossible to ‘break the ice’ within ourselves.</p>
<p>thanks, Dayman! That was really reassuring :). Are you going to Harvard?</p>
<p>Most likely, or, at least, about 95% sure. I’m visiting prior to the ‘official’ weekend, and as long as that doesn’t reveal to me signs of insane behavior amongst the student body (and of course smooth over a bit of financials), I’ll be attending.</p>
<p>final clubs are truly a small portion of campus life. not even close to, say princeton’s eating clubs. i would say 10% or less participate either directly or indirectly (via partying there) with final clubs. yes, a large majority avoid them altogether.</p>
<p>“uber-competition” is rare here. quite frankly, if you’re throwing people under buses in order to achieve some goal of yours, you will likely not have many friends and will be looked down upon by the rest of the community.</p>
<p>yay!! I’m so glad to hear that. Some people have told me that final clubs are more prominent than that but still totally avoidable – either way, it’s good to know that they won’t have to have any effect on my life.</p>
<p>These ramblings are nothing but a reflection of ignorance. It always amazes me how people who know so little about a topic seem to have the strongest opinions about same.</p>
<p>First off there is a very real chance that none of you will be punched for a final club. In which case you don’t have to worry about it as it will not impact your life in the least unless…unless YOU allow it to.</p>
<p>Second. Generalizations about old money families are just that; generalizations. Not really worthy of an intellect capable of going to Harvard. The reality is that when you meet people from TRULY old-money families you would never know they had money. Grand displays of wealth are the hallmark of new money, ALWAYS.</p>
<p>Third. The scions of old money tend to be very, very intelligent. It is main stream media that attempts to portray them as dopes. Dynastic families that have over centuries created the economic/academic foundation of the United States are not stupid. People enjoy portraying legacies as unworthy but that is most certainly not the case.</p>
<p>Go to Harvard to LEARN “a posteriori”.</p>
<p>That said if you are insecure you are better off at another school. Harvard will hand you your head.</p>
<p>I never implied anything bad about old money families, nor did I imply that I was insecure, so I have no idea what you’re talking about. I simply asked about how apparent the presence of final clubs and snobbishness are on campus because I am uncomfortable with those things.</p>
<p>@eliana, in a very real way, BBUB gave you an answer(by example). Of course, you’d have to give his rant the weight a newbie with 5 posts deserves …</p>
<p>Hahaha. “Hand you your head”? What a ridiculous thing to say.</p>
<p>Seriously, don’t worry about the snobby people at Harvard… I get the hunch that they like to isolate themselves from the “ignorant” masses when they can, so I doubt you have to worry about their culture being too prominent around campus. The college experience is what you make of it, and if you’re looking to form a circle of genuine friends at any college - Harvard included - you’ll be able to do just that with extreme ease. =)</p>
<p>HAHA. Yes the eating clubs are very pretentious and people are snobby. Having said that are you going to reject Harvard’s offer? NO! of course not. So why pretend?</p>
<p>^ Harvard does not have eating clubs. That’s Princeton!</p>
<p>D is completing her freshman year. I’ll answer your question according to my daughter’s life at Harvard. Best I know, she has not met any of those “old money” or snobby people, or if so they made so little impact that it has never been worth commenting upon. With regard to people, she has never been happier than this year. She has more friends than she ever has and spends much of her time in social settings - even studying if often in the company of friends.</p>
<p>As for final clubs, frats, and sororities, she may have attended one party for one of those in the fall (not sure which) but was unimpressed and though she attends other parties chose to not return to these. If you are looking for non-final-frat-sorority parties, there are probably more than you can actually attend. D mainly hangs out with friends associated with her dorm or the ballroom team (which she joined in the fall).</p>
<p>As for competitive kids, I guess they are there. D’s friends are all very willing to help/support each other academically. </p>
<p>All in all, if your reservations are about the students at Harvard, my opinion is you should not be concerned.</p>
<p>Hi eliana,</p>
<p>I’m finishing my senior year at Harvard now, and hope I can shed some light on your questions.</p>
<p>1) Finals clubs are a VERY small part of campus social life- they bear absolutely no resemblance to fraternities in schools such as (say) Duke, where nearly everyone is expected to participate. I don’t know the percentage of Harvard students that are in finals clubs, but know it is quite low, and that, if you aren’t interested in them, you can easily have a complete and fulfilling four years without ever setting foot in one. I do have a few good friends in finals clubs, and have gone to a few (enjoyable) parties at them, but the vast, vast majority of social life and parties have nothing at all to do with finals clubs, and I would never say they have a noticeable “presence” on campus.</p>
<p>2) The second issue, that of “snobbiness,” is a very common and incredibly unfounded perception of Harvard. I cannot express in strong enough terms that this is NOT my experience. In my four years here I have never met anyone I would characterize as “snobby” or “pretentious.” Furthermore, I’ve never, ever heard Harvard students complain that they found the atmosphere too snobby or pretentious.</p>
<p>In fact it’s rather difficult to be snobby at Harvard even if you tried :)- when you are regularly surrounded by such extraordinary people, it’s basically impossible to think you’re better than everyone. (I certainly knew quite a few more snobs in HS than I do here). Harvard tends to instill quite a bit more humility than it does egotism.</p>
<p>This is related, though not identical, to the impression that Harvard is largely made up of “blue blood” students. This is even more demonstrably false- even a glimpse at the school’s demographic statistics is enough to disprove it. Furthermore, the students on campus who do come from rich families, which is not a disturbingly high percentage by any means, don’t change the social atmosphere at all. They’re just like any other students.</p>
<p>You’re also concerned about uber-competitiveness, and I also have to note that this has not been my experience. I’ve posted on this at length before, so please forgive me for referring to two previous posts:</p>
<p><a href=“Anyone have questions? - Harvard University - College Confidential Forums”>Anyone have questions? - Harvard University - College Confidential Forums;
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/485971-harvard-cut-throat.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/485971-harvard-cut-throat.html</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So in summary- Harvard is not easy, but is almost NEVER competitive at a social level. Off the top of my head I can’t think of anyone I would be comfortable describing as “uber-competitive kids that care only about themselves.”</p>
<p>Please let me know, by PM if you want, if you want to discuss further. I hope I was helpful, and I especially hope you make the right choice for you!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I really try to avoid calling out other posters, but this post is so unfortunately misinformed that I felt compelled to respond. Indeed, virtually every word is at best misinformed and at worst malicious.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As was helpfully noted by smoda61, there are no such thing as eating clubs at Harvard, and as for “pretentious,” I would refer you to my previous post. Furthermore, this is an important decision on eliana’s part and there is no call to laugh at it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’d refer you to my previous post, but also note that gedion9324 has neither evidence nor personal experience to support this statement. People who ask advice on College Confidential deserve a much higher standard of response.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Baseless disrespect of Harvard bugs me a little, but disrespect of another poster’s right to choose his or her college is deeply offensive. There may be many good reasons to choose a school other than Harvard. Harvard isn’t right for everyone, and no one could correctly promise otherwise. The best anyone on CC can do is provide helpful information and a useful perspective, as I hope I’ve done.</p>
<p>Admiral - Wonderful post. Everything you wrote is reflective of my daughter’s freshman year experience. You used the word “humbling”. That is a word that my daughter and I have used frequently this year. She is a very bright, talented, hardworking young lady who has learned what it is like to be average. I have also recently begun stating that I may strike (yes, only an expression) the next person who repeats the statement that “the hardest part of Harvard is getting in”. My daughter has never worked so hard in her entire life and stressed academically. While at the same time, she has never been so happy socially.</p>
<p>You’re wise and respectful Admiral. I bow down in shame. And then get up and still tell you that the OP is going to choose Harvard. As for my comments about the final clubs being pretentious, I was being sarcastic. I understand you’re trying to be helpful but humor never hurt anyone.</p>
<p>I apologize to the OP if I came off as being arrogant or disrespectful.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Gedion9324, I likely took your post too seriously, and not in the spirit it was intended.</p>
<p>Good luck in college!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I call BS. There are definitely some, just a minority.</p>
<p>thanks so much, admiral and smoda! those were some really informative and reassuring posts :). </p>
<p>gedion, please don’t make any baseless presumptions about my college choices. i will go where i want to go and i’m not currently any more inclined toward harvard than i am toward some of my other equally excellent choices.</p>