<p>For those who have been through the process we know that the odds of getting into the top programs is very low and that getting accepted into any BFA is very tough. My S had a wonderful audition season yet he did not get into every program or his first choice school. I think it would be helpful to
see where kids applied, where they were accepted and rejected.<br>
Accepted:BW, OCU, CSUF, BoCo, Penn State
Waitlisted:Indiana, Michigan
Rejected:CCM, CMU, NYU, Ithaca
Final: Penn State</p>
<p>I think this is a great idea, jacksdad. It will be quite helpful for those of us auditioning this upcoming year. I hope more will post...thanks!</p>
<p>Great idea! I too will be going through this next year and this would be great information. Thanks!</p>
<p>While I can understand and appreciate the enthusiasm for sharing this type of information, the utility of the information should be viewed with caution. As has been discussed on many threads, there is often little apparent rhyme or reason that a student is accepted at 1 school but rejected at another and often a student can be accepted at school A and rejected at school B while another student with similar academic credentials, talent, performance training and experience is accepted at school B but rejected at school A. The subjective nature of the process, the almost idiosyncratic matching of particular individuals to particular schools, is so elusive of objective "markers" that seeing where 1 student (or even many) was accepted/rejected/waitlisted has little to no instructive value as to where your kid should apply and what the anticipated outcome should be. For example, looking at jacksdad's posting, I bet there is no one who can cogently explain why his son was rejected by NYU and Ithaca while being accepted by Penn State. By all objective measures, if he was qualified to to be accepted at Penn State's small (in numbers only) selective program, he should have been qualified to be accepted at Ithaca and NYU. And I bet that there were students accepted at Ithaca and NYU who were rejected by Penn State.</p>
<p>Simply put, there are no patterns of where students are accepted and rejected that will be predictive for another student and should used to shape where a student applies. As has been discussed on several other threads, what's important is to come up with a well balanced list of schools that includes a diverse mix of larger programs, smaller programs, schools that draw nationally, some more regional, some where academics are weighed, some where they are not - and throw in some BA theatre programs that are non -audition where you are a strong academic match. Research the heck out of schools to find a manageable but diverse list of 8 -10 schools max that seem to be a good match.</p>
<p>I tend to agree Michael that one would have to look at such results with caution as there is little rhyme or reason with the results to be analyzed or that would be helpful in predicting outcomes for anyone else. Perhaps what would be just as useful is simply something like: "number of BFA programs applied to and number of BA programs applied to and number of acceptances, wait lists, and denials" to get a sense of the odds. Reading the names of the schools is definitely interesting but shouldn't be analyzed. Like you say, and I can give you lots of examples, one kid gets into X but not Y and the other kid of similar credentials gets into Y but not X. But it is useful for those coming into this process for next year to see the odds and how many schools others applied to (breakdown BFA and BA) and how many they got in and didn't. So, I am not sure if the names of the schools are truly needed. People can list what they wish but hopefully prospective students listen to the wise caution when viewing such lists that you provided.</p>
<p>MNK-that is exactly my point. It is remarkable that our kids have wonderful choices of schools to attend and that many factors do come into play. My S was not academically competitive at NYU and had a great audition and he did not send in the required audio DVD at Ithaca as he was not encouraged about the program after attending the introduction at Unifieds. Stiil, those schools are extremely selective and may have not chosen him even if those conditions were different. We know one very talented girl who applied only at the best MT programs and was accepted at none, and we know margianlly talented kids who applied to a range of schools and ended up with very good choices. I just want to share our experiences in an open, transparent way to aid the next years class as they begin to create their list of schools.</p>
<p>Soozivt-we crossposted but I believe that you can't have too much information-people should take this data and process it in helping to make their school choices and to shape their philosophies about the audition season. Of course, you can't take one persons results and directly to apply them to another student as there are so many variables involved.</p>
<p>jacksdad, I agree that the list is interesting to view and would support people continuing it. I'm simply also agreeing with Michael about the caution in analyzing such a list that prospective families need to have.</p>
<p>jacksdad - The info in your post #6 about NYU is exactly the type of info that next years applicants need to have. In putting together a smart list of schools, it's important to know that NYU requires even its MT applicants to meet the normal L.A. academic admissions requirements. It's also important to know that the academic requirements for MT students at NYU are more stringent than at Penn State. (I had mistakenly assumed that the academic requirements to get up to Penn State's Main Campus were comparable to those that NYU would demand for Tisch applicants, but obviously I was wrong.)</p>
<p>To follow up soozie's post: my daughter applied to 5 BFA MT programs and 1 non-audition BA program (but did optional audition for talent scholarship purposes). Was accepted at 2 BFA MT programs and the BA program, was rejected outright at 1 BFA program, rejected for MT at another but asked if she would be interested in vocal performance (she wasn't), and accepted academically at the last but offered another major, not MT (which she declined). One other thing worth mentioning is that regardless of the weight given to academics for admissions purposes, academics play an important role in merit scholarship money. My daughter got significant scholarships at all 3 schools and her academics were an important part of that, even though the schools reflected a diverse range of academic criteria for admissions.</p>
<p>In my opinion, perhaps the fact that the admissions and decision process and results ARE sometimes so arbitrary may be exactly what is instructive in posting who applied where and what the results were. Those of us who have been around CC for any length of time know that there are countless kids (and parents) who don't compile an adequate list of schools at which to apply. And it isn't just those who do not have the benefit of gaining valuable information from CC. I don't think that it can be said often enough that it is vital to have a 'good' and realistic list of schools. If a thread like this assists in convincing someone of that, either simply by showing the vagaries of decisions or by providing residual information like jacksdad did about the academic component, then I think it's a worthwhile effort. </p>
<p>In addition to that, it can be a kind of database for this year's prospectives to contact individuals and inquire about their experiences auditioning at a particular school or to engage in a discussion as to how their final decision was made. And, of course, the general interest in where kids apply and where they're accepted is also there.</p>
<p>AlwaysAMom, that's so true that by viewing such a tally can demonstrate the subjective, unpredicatable and sometimes arbitrary outcome and that would be helpful for those who are starting this process to see. I think this discussion on this thread is good because those who have been through it are discussing what to consider and look for and be cautioned about when viewing such lists. It definitely can demonstrate the difficult odds because almost every kid will get several rejections, even those admitted to top programs. And one of the BIGGEST problems and concerns that I come across in my work is those who do not have an appropriate college list. Everything in the admissions process follows from the list. You could do everything right on your applications but if the list is not appropriate to you or balanced, it won't matter. Soooo much thought needs to go into building the right list and a realistic one for each individual. I see a lot of people who just look for "schools that offer MT" without regard to their own qualifications, the odds, and so forth. I have had several clients who did not get into the schools they had originally put on their lists but got into the schools I had encouraged them to add to the list and thankfully so as that is where they are headed and may have had NO school had they not added these appropriate and good schools for them. Also, the odds are so difficult as many of us know. But also there are some who are not realistic about their qualifications in addition to the odds of getting in.</p>
<p>It also rubs salt in the wounds of those less successful, even if it helps them become more successful the next go-around... Like the talented girl who applied to only top schools and got in none - I can't imagine she would feel great to read about all the kids who got into multiple schools and had the luxury to choose... 'specially if they are the schools to which she applied!!! It sort of sounds like boasting or even gloating. And please don't say they shouldn't look at the thread... most of the parents and kids read all the threads...</p>
<p>I know there are a lot of lurkers who feel uncomfortable responding to a thread like this to this kind of post, but I know they are out there feeling this way. Just wanted to say my piece for my peace!!! :)</p>
<p>snoggie, that is one fear I had in reading the thread. I have a feeling that there will be some who will not post their tally if their tally is something like this:</p>
<p>Applied to 10 BFAs, admitted to one. (though frankly, you can only go to one and so SUCCESS!!!!)</p>
<p>While it would be so helpful to have those posts included in this tally, I realize there are going to be members who for emotional reasons, likely won't post such tallies. It can be a sensitive subject.</p>
<p>Soozievt, I appreciate your thoughts. And it really is too bad, because that info is soooo important. When kids applying see how many schools kids are accepted to and DON"T see the ones who are less successful, (Let's face it, there are also plenty of kids who had poor lists and are accepted to none, like my D) then they're idea about percentages is not accurate.</p>
<p>Having said that, we came to CC late, and if we had had half of the info we have gotten now, we would probably be adding to the above list!!! :)</p>
<p>I know that as well and If so this thread will die like so many others. Like so many parents who have thrown themselves into this process to help their children find success, I have spent countless hours piecing together this acceptance/rejection/final dec data from threads from 2005-2007. It did influence our opinion of the schools and how to approach the process. My S and I agreed to spread out the auditions starting in the fall and ending at Unifieds to try and avoid illness disasters (we did not-he was sick at Unifieds). We also chose his safety school-Fullerton-based on this board. My desire is completely honorable, although I am not sure I would be here if my child had no acceptances as it would be very painful. That being said, I think there is useful information and guidance that can be passed on to the next class of MTers. If others are hesitant to post, please make yourself available to the next class by email or PM to share your experiences.</p>
<p>Jacksdad, I do think you are trying to be helpful to those who come next. I also think the discussion here is hopefully helpful to those folks too. And like you say, there will be some who are hesitant to post such tallies for themselves and so we're only going to get tallies from those who feel comfortable sharing such information. So for those who are reading, please realize that the tallies are from a self selected group of people who are willing to share such results.</p>
<p>Snoggie, I didn't see your post 14 when I just posted. But it would be nice if those with results like your D or the many others who have had less acceptances DO post results as that would be a FAR more accurate picture of the overall BFA process for the population of those who apply. I hope some will post, but I know from experience that some may be reluctant.</p>
<p>Soozievt,</p>
<p>My D applied to Pace, Wagner, Elon, Hartt and IU. She got into 4 schools academically, but not the MT programs. The thing that makes her stats a little different is that she applied as a transfer from another program. As hard as it is to know why/how freshmen are accepted, I think it is even harder to know why/how transfers are accepted.</p>
<p>Again, and I can't state this too much, if we had been knowledgable, had known about CC in September instead of February, I think things for her might have been different.</p>
<p>snoggie....it is helpful and brave of you to post your D's results. It is definitely harder to get into a BFA as a transfer! So, that is important to share. I obviously know nothing about your D or her qualifications or where she was transferring from but the odds for anyone are going to be tough and she also had just five programs, making the odds even tougher. It is hard to know what you could have done differently without knowing your daughter and what she did do on her applications and auditions but thank you for sharing as it demonstrates the difficult odds. Is she transferring to one fo these academically or staying where she is now?</p>
<p>Since my cup seems to be half full most of the time, I don't see listing your results as boa****l or hurtful. In fact it could be the opposite. I think I would be uplifted if I were rejected from school X, but I see that your student was accepted to Great school Y and Top school Z (so you must be talented), but was also rejected from school X. That would make me think that even extremely talented kids were rejected from the same school I was, so that does not mean I am not talented. It just means I did not have the right list. Does that make sense?</p>