Went to a great performance at Ds performing arts magnet school last night. These kids are all amazing. Many will pursue a career in theater. Several just came back from unifieds and solo auditions. Heard one girl describe her audition at Ithaca (1800 kids for 8 spots) and started thinking. I realize these BFA programs are incredibly competitive. Yes there are likely the same kids auditioning at many of the same schools. 8 get in here, 20 get in there. It’s not like it’s a whole different set of kids per school. Still, the numbers are pretty bleak.
For those of you who have been though it, what’s next when your kid is in the vast majority of kids who don’t get in? D is very talented and driven. It’s all she want to do. She may get in but the numbers suggest she won’t. What do they end up doing; a plan B if you will?
She (only a sophomore but wants to start looking at schools now) tells me there’s no point in going to college if she doesn’t get in. Of course that’s crazy but she feels her time would be better spent just auditioning full time (because that’s what matters anyway). Of course she’d need a job (clever little bugger asked if we’d give her the college fund money to live on for a few yrs).
She’ll go to college and hopefully get a English minor (or major depending). I’ve told her many times there are lots of ways to participate in theater; writing, directing, etc. Actually very good at that too (teaches workshops to younger kids).
At the end of the day, what do all these kids do? Be interested in hearing perspectives.
The key is a) to have a wide range of schools on the list, not just the tippy-top super-prestigious ones, and b) to have a non-auditioned safety.
If you look through the forum, there are threads about less-selective schools (which still have excellent training, but draw from a more regional applicant pool, not a national pool, so the odds of acceptance are higher), and safety schools that you don’t have to audition for.
One of the most inspiring stories on CC for me was that of @KaMaMom : her D had a rough audition season (she actually broke her foot during one of the dance calls!) and didn’t get into any of her choices, but CCers suggested a bunch of schools that still had late audition slots open, so she was able to schedule some additional last-minute auditions. Her D got into Nebraska Wesleyan’s MT program, which she attends, and she absolutely LOVES it and is thriving there and it’s perfect for her.
Does anyone know the true numbers? How many kids apply for MT nationally vs. # slots available nationally? I realize that this number may not mean anything if that spot is in a BA program that your kid isn’t interested in etc… but it may Be our closest gauge to competitiveness and those that need to “pursue other interests”.
I know that I am in the minority but I actually agree with your D that if she doesn’t get into a BFA program taking a year off to audition is a good option. If performing as a professional is her goal, then auditioning for a year is a great way to see if it is feasible. Many working actors did not go to college. If at the end of the year, she isn’t working then she can try auditioning again for schools if that is what she still wants to pursue. But if she does end up working steadily then you just saved yourself college tuition! Gap years are not uncommon at all today and taking a gap year to pursue her dreams professionally is not a bad option. (This is the choice I gave my D when she was going through the process. She did end up getting accepted into a great BFA program, but she still did seriously consider taking the gap year).
My kid was one who got in nowhere (until she came off a waitlist). Our list was ALL wrong and we did not use a coach. If you choose to not use a coach (this was our big mistake but we didn’t know they existed) and your list is too narrow the chances are quite high your child will not get into college. My child ended up LOVING her safety and will graduate in May with her BA instead of a BFA. She is incredibly happy and has received top notch training in all aspects of theatre. Acting, directing, playwriting and stage managing. The huge amounts of money we saved because of scholarships she attending a 7 week acting intensive with an equity theatre company. She feels she will graduate ready to begin her journey into this crazy field of auditions and does not regret not getting into any of the BFA programs she applied. No plan B for her. The only thing we did right was make sure she had a safety school that she would be happy to attend if things did not work out. Because she knew she would need some extra training in acting and singing, she took classes in the professional community instead of college. My daughter has already worked 3 professional equity gigs as a stage manager and has received points towards her equity card. This is audition season so she is auditioning in NYC while sending out resumes to different theatre companies for SM positions. There is so much out there that your child can do in the business. Mine happens to love more than one aspect and is good at several things so hopefully this will afford her some success.
Good luck!
If a kid doesn’t get admitted to a BFA in MT program, it is not as if they have to consider other majors or not going to college at all. There are many wonderful BA programs that can lead to a successful career in MT. I know some students who were competitive for BFA in MT programs, but who chose to apply to BA schools instead, and are now being cast on Broadway, leads on tour, leads in well regarded regional theaters and so on. While my own kid only wanted a BFA program, please realize that a BA program in this field is also a very viable path to a career in MT/Theater.
I’m working (as a college counselor) with a student in this year’s admissions cycle who only wants a BA degree program and is pursuing MT.
D took a class this Fall where the very first assignment was planning your gap year. It gave me heart palpitations but was a very useful exercise. The kids were instructed to plan what type of work they would do, where they would live and how they would approach the upcoming year, complete with a fully-researched budget. Here’s hoping and praying she doesn’t have to use it.
@jbtcat, Don’t think that is a bad idea at all. At the end of the day, for the performers, the only thing that matters is the audition. A director really won’t care where or if she attended college. From a performance standpoint, lots of ways to continue training without college.
Fortunately, D is a good writer and understands the directing side fairly well. Not sure if she’s got that certain something there or it’s just a function of being immersed since 1st grade. Probably a bit of both.
Just can’t imagine how they choose talent at auditions. Her high school has many that just blow you away (fortunately she’s one of them). But that’s just one school. There must be thousands of these incredible kids. After awhile, they must all look / sound alike.
Casting a wide net makes a lot of sense. Sh’s focused on the NYUs, CMUs of the world. We definitely need to broaden her horizons.
Also interested in feedback regarding the importance of GPA and test scores for admissions i to BFA programs. I know they care about the audition but I would think the school cares about the overall student. Fortunately D is a good student but not off the charts. We’re an academic focused family. Have always stressed the importance of education, doing your best, etc. (in everything actually).
That said, she’s not interested in taking the APs that her brother did (or the extra foreign language, science, etc.) She is basing things on the minimums to graduate. I keep on telling her she’s automatically eliminating many schools that want to see more.
Curious to know how it actually works for BFA programs (my guess is BA programs work like any other major for admissions purposes).
Test scores, GPA and academic rigor are very important at schools that have a dual admission (academic and artistic) requirement (eg, NYU, Michigan). For schools where admission is based mostly on audition, GPA and test scores are important for merit money.
@rickle1 - the answer to the question of academics is… it depends. Just to use a couple of schools you mentioned in post #7 - CMU does not applicants to anything CLOSE to the normal academic standards of the University - for them the audition is everything - and BFA kids won’t be taking classes outside of their major (CMU is a conservatory type program). Other schools, like NYU - weight academics and audition equally… so you could have someone really talented who doesn’t pass the academic bar, b/c you will take 60% theater classes and 40% regular academic classes. Every school is different - but a few of the BFAs that seem to care MOST about academics are NYU, Michigan, Penn State and Syracuse. And since you mention NYU as a school your D is interested in - I would STRONGLY recommend a few AP classes junior/senior year to up the academic game, both b/c NYU is an academically competitive school (which will want to see “rigor” on her HS transcript) and b/c NYU academic classes are intense.
@artskids, and @toowonderful, thanks, sounds like it’s all over the place. We would always err on the side of more APs and rigor (just in our DNA - maybe not Ds). Good to know about Penn State and Syracuse as they are on her radar. Singing coach has already recommended Penn St (because she went there) and knows the program well.
What is the general feeling of AMDA within the CC community? I know they have a 2 yr and 4 yr program. Seems more like organized coaching lessons vs. actually going to college.
You mention back up plan…While my kid did not have a back up plan and went for it 100%, I believe that a college education in itself is a sort of back up, because a college education serves you well in life. So, I would not encourage the “go directly to work” path, though gap years are good.
As an aside, I think an 18 year auditioning in the professional world is going to be up against those who are more seasoned and it will be difficult.
I echo the BA route. D15 decided late she wanted Drama/MT. She had applied to mostly academic schools as pre-med. No way she was getting in the MT BFA programs. She applied last minute to USCal for BA Drama, was admitted and it turned out great. The key is to pick a school with a vibrant theatre community where the BFA number is small, so they do not dominate the opportunities. D15 acts, has written a play and seen it performed, has directed plays, has produced many plays and also marketed many. She has seen that there are many ways to work in the field she loves, while also continuing to act and sing. If your child is not admitted as a BFA somewhere, you might check with the school to see if there is a viable BA option.
Regarding AP classes - please be aware that many schools use an unweighted GPA for your core classes when reviewing applications. So there were times when D would have been better off having an A in a regular class versus a B in an AP class. I also thought senior year that the stress level could have been minimized by not taking as many AP classes. But I am sure taking the AP classes was looked upon favorably by certain schools. If we had to do it over again we would have perhaps reduced the number of AP classes she took her senior year just to try to minimize some stress. C
Also, check admissions policies at the schools in which you are interested. I believe some schools required 4 years of a language, 4 years of math, etc… so you want to make sure you will meet the requirements for any schools in which you are interested.
Most importantly, listen to your child and understand their reasoning. They may need to be pushed to take some classes to make them competitive for admissions in certain schools. . But, depending on the schools in which they are interested, if they want to be an actor, should we push them to take AP Calc? Looking back, I would say no.
We do know a number of kids who are thriving in their acting careers after receiving BAs in a wide variety of subjects. So a BFA is not the only way to prepare for the profession.
Agree @vvnstar on the APs. D is an excellent student but just did not get along with one of the AP teachers last year. She is the only teacher of the second AP in the sequence this year; D opted to take the course as college credit plus rather than AP and she is much more relaxed. She feels the AP class would probably have been more rigorous but she would have been miserable and stressed. She is out of school all next week - with the possible exception of Friday.
@vvnstar - I agree UW GPA can end up higher w/o AP’s and that can translate into merit $$. BUT - the more academically selective a college is, the more they will be looking at they types of classes taken - for the GC to check the “most rigorous” box. That doesn’t mean a kid has to take APs in EVERY subject, but you may want at least a smattering.
I also want to mention - b/c as a teacher I have seen this bite a BUNCH of my high achieving students in the backside dual enrollment and college credit plus classes are not necessarily accepted by private colleges, or public colleges outside the state. A former student of mine (nothing to do with theater) decided to spend all of senior year doing dual enrollment - only to find out that NONE of that would transfer to his eventual college of choice. If he had decided to take APs (he is an excellent student, I have not doubt he would have scored) he would have had 5 more things out of the way. (he chose a neighboring state flagship). This is NOT meant to diminish dual credits- they can be great - BUT, the fact that AP is a national system, means that it has the broadest recognition.
^^^all of son’s dual enrollment classes transferred. He attends a private university in the same state. D doesn’t really care since she’s only taking one and could not see herself in that particular AP class. I was not necessarily in favor of her switching and not taking the AP course - she was certainly capable - but I’m not the one in the classroom every day.
@rickle1 I always wanted to understand and look at the numbers. I caution against this. You never know how everything shakes out. Schools are looking for a diverse student population. For example you wouldn’t want 10 kids from the same performing arts high school all at the same college. Different programs might be looking for different strengths. Some schools tend to like dancers, some singers and some actors. Grades are important. Sometimes they give you an edge. Only going for top tier schools can be risky but I think it helps if your student has an all in attitude. Our back up plan was gap year. I’m glad it didn’t go that way for us. Good luck. It’s a great ride.
Thanks all. Just trying to get my ducks in a row as I know the time will fly by. It certainly did w my son. I like the idea of reach BFAs (all of them are by definition due to the auditions) and BA with good theater programs in match / safety academic schools. She’s all in so don’t see the point of reach academic school without a strong theater program (she would go to average X school with a good BA in theater vs. strong academic school with less prominent theater).
It’s all she’s ever wanted to do and it’s all she does (a lot of it within and outside of school)