Financial aid bitter

Paying for College
421

<p>Well worth reading. College tuition is another bubble that will burst within ten years. </p>

<p>[Amazon.com:</a> The Faculty Lounges: And Other Reasons Why You Won’t Get The College Education You Pay For (9781566638869): Naomi Schaefer Riley: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566638860?ie=UTF8&tag=washpost-opinions-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1566638860]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566638860?ie=UTF8&tag=washpost-opinions-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1566638860)</p>

422

<p>It’s not just the “teenies”. A number of Catholic schools are endangered that have had a long tradition of being desirable schools. I know one in particular that gave scholarships to a number of C students at our school, and it is on the list of schools that has openings still in May. I noticed several schools on that list that are fine schools. Just not enough people willing to pay the cost is my guess.</p>

423

<p>Are you talking about NACAC’s list? I have been glancing at it for several years. I have seen some wonderful schools on that list every year. I don’t see the list getting longer either, which I guess is interesting.</p>

424

<p>cpt-I do generally agree with a lot of the points you have been making. But, I do want to point out one solution to this statement:

</p>

<p>The Pennsylvania Higher Education system has 14 regional universities scattered throughout the state that offer 4 year degrees with tuition and fees often under $9,000 for a commuting student. So the Philly area kid could possibly go to West Chester University (approx $7522) Maybe Kutztown if they live in norther suburb ($7732) Cheney University ($7720). Or Temple (12 to 14,000 depending on degree program) Penn State Abington (approx $13672). Of course not all universities offer all majors, but selecting a regional university, even including housing is often a way to reduce costs compared to attending the flagship.</p>

425

<p>You have a city kid or a kid living right outside of the city, commuting that distance is a huge expense. Usually means getting a car which can add a couple thousand a year, probably more. I’ve lived this, you see with my H’s cousins. No way to for family to be able to drop off the kid when you are talking some of those distances as they could for CC, and not that many making the commute so that you can easily carpool as you can for the CC. So you buy the kid a car, and he needs to work to support the car which is a cheap car that isn’t cut out for such distance commutes and becomes a money pit. The gas prices these days makes it even a bigger cost issue. Temple, Pitt, and some of the Penn States running up to $15K with fees is really to much for those kids. In NY, the tuition is pretty much capped at about $5K a year. Big difference. And there are SUNYs everywhere.</p>

426

<p>*As for your personal situation, I don’t think you went to a private boarding school for K-12, or even just for high school. Why not? I already know the answer to this question. Really, the same thought process should go towards college. Why the heck should the federal government or any public funds be going towards paying for you or anyone’s sleep away college experience? If American wants you badly enough, and your family wants you to go to American badly enough, you pay for it yourself. I have absolutely no sympathy in this area in terms of government aid.
*</p>

<p>I agree. The idea that tax-payer funded grants are paying for room and board is really nuts. In Calif, the UCs are doing this and that state is broke. (And, yes, that state also needs to scale back/eliminate Cal Grants for private schools. And, it needs to consider both parents’ incomes for determining aid.)</p>

427

<p>Cpt-we’ved lived also. Sis went to Bloomsburg for one year. Came home, worked while attending local Penn State campus. Finished up last two years at Penn State Capital campus. Took her a bit longer than 4 years but she pretty much funded it all herself. (And her degree says Pennylvania State University). I went to Temple (which also give merit $$). Lots of kids there commute, some not taking full time loads to keep costs down and allow more hours working. Younger sis attended Kutztown. My niece was just accepted to Edinborough. Theses aren’t schools you hear a lot about on cc. Granted they are not as inexpensive as SUNY’s. But not all of the SUNY’s are commutable either.</p>

<p>Kids need to “keep their eye on the prize” and look at many means to reach the same end.</p>

428

<p>

</p>

<p>I totally agree. The idea that CA taxpayers are footing the bill for an L.A. resident to live in UC Berkeley’s expensive housing and eat its expensive food is ridiculous when that student can continue to live at home and attend UCLA instead.</p>

429

<p>

</p>

<p>Top schools? Nah, won’t happen in our lifetime. HYPSM could charge $100k today for tuition alone, and thousands would be lined up at their doors to pay it. Cal-Berkeley could double its price and the same thing would happen; indeed, it’s happening today as thousands of OOS’ers apply to pay $55k to attend. The market exists and for top schools it is extremely inelastic.</p>

<p>And yes, the health care analogy doesn’t work. With the tax exemptions, and Medicare/Medicaid, the feds/states pay ~2/3rds of all health care costs, unlike college education…</p>

<p>OTOH, I do think that there is a law/grad school bubble, bcos again, the feds pay (thru loan guarantees) the bulk of the costs to attend. If the feds did not guarantee $200k in loans, new law schools would not be opening every years bcos there would be no market for them.</p>

430

<p>CA is really over the top as it is now going to extend fin aid benefits to undocumented students as well, from what I read. No wonder the system is broke. It’s a shame because the university model it has is terrific and one that I’d like to see replicated in other states.</p>

431

<p>Natl Conf of State Legislatures, 5/2011 (abridged)
“Since 2001, 12 states have enacted legislation granting undocumented students who meet specific requirements in-state tuition rates at public postsecondary institutions. California and Texas were the first states to enact legislation in 2001. In 2002, New York and Utah…2003 and 2004 Washington, Oklahoma, Illinois and Kansas all passed such laws. In 2005 and 2006, New Mexico and Nebraska signed undocumented student tuition legislation into law, and Wisconsin enacted a similar law in 2009. In May 2011, Maryland’s governor signed a law allowing undocumented students meeting the specified requirements to pay in-state tuition at community colleges.” Connecticut’s law is pending. And, I think RI is next.</p>

<p>“New Mexico and Texas currently allow undocumented students to receive financial aid.”</p>

432

<p>blueby I think time will prove you wrong. So we’ll bet a lunch on it. But keep in mind I never said that Harvard won’t have enough students willing to pay but rather that most professional parent families won’t be able to afford the tutition. When you do the math over the next 10-15 years it won’t be possible for families in the 200-300k income range to afford to pay for more than one child. These now young familes often have school debt to pay and do not have anywhere near the earning potential of 20 years ago in most professions. With school debt, mortgage payments, and retirements to fund there just isn’t enough money to spend 500k on a college degree that by itself has little value. So unless things change the elite schools will either be composed of full FA students and the true wealthy or the schools will have to give FA far above the current income levels.</p>

433

<p>I know of at least 10 students this year from my high school that moved to California to live with relatives to establish residency to “go to college for free…” </p>

<p>I live in a midwestern state.</p>

434

<p>Say, I’ve been wrong numerous times before. :)</p>

<p>But there are a limited number of “top” colleges, and plenty of really wealthy people worldwide. That ain’t gonna change. The wealth is just being redistributed (right now to China). HYP could easily fill their class with full payors today, and tomorrow and a decade from now. Indeed, one of our posters on cc, mini, has frequently asked why HYP did not raise their fees to $100k today. They would easily get it.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>But that is true today. Before HYP decided that salary levels of $180k were in “need”, 50% of its students were full pay. But what is important to remember, is that many private colleges right below the top ~15 are 65% full pay today. Fine colleges all, and obviously worth $55k to those that have it in their pockets. There is no reason to believe that there won’t be enough wealth for such colleges to continue.</p>

435

<p>*CA is really over the top as it is now going to extend fin aid benefits to undocumented students as well, from what I read. No wonder the system is broke. It’s a shame because the university model it has is terrific and one that I’d like to see replicated in other states. *</p>

<p>Calif is really nuts. It shouldn’t be giving FA to undocumented students.</p>

<p>Also…it needs to go back to the idea that kids should go to their local Cal State or UC…and FA should reflect that. There can be some exceptions for students who live in rural areas or who are majoring in something unusual (but if they change their major, they lose any additional funding). </p>

<p>Instead, the state has enabled the mentality where kids eschew their local schools (cuz everyone I know goes there, and I’m too special for that), and they think that the tax payer should fund their luxury dreams of “going away”…that’s just crazy!</p>

436

<p>I don’t think any FA should go to illegal immigrants either.</p>

<p>But I differ on not extending FA to citizens who are accepted to a UC that is not in their geographic area. You’d keep poorer but outstanding students who live in the Central Valley or the Inland Empire from attending any school other than UC Merced or UC Riverside.</p>

437

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t think that is so bad. One of the reasons those two campuses are not ranked as highly is because the outstanding students get siphoned off to Cal and UCLA.</p>

<p>The goal shouldn’t be to equalize educational opportunities using the richest students as the common denominator. A free ride to UC Riverside or Merced is an excellent opportunity.</p>

438

<p>Much of what CA does is wacky.<br>
Don’t forget that NM and TX are giving aid to undocumenteds. It may relate to the large numbers of transient workers. It’s meant to be “fair” to kids brought in by their parents, but qualified for that school and willing to apply for legal status. Many feel that these kids, who did not consciously or purposely “immigrate,” should not be blocked. </p>

<p>The Cal State system is overloaded- and does apply some geographic definitions to schools, in part to manage numbers. UCB is considering upping the oos %, for the additional fees and it and UCLA are considering the feasibility of becoming “national universities” to break out of the CA system crises.</p>

439

<p>So, Bay, a kid who needs FA and lives in Red Bluff or Tule Lake or any other city that is not commuting distance to a UC would get FA to attend any UC, but those who live within commuting distance of a UC would not. What is commuting distance anyway? Is Bakersfield commuting distance to UCLA? I know kids who live in the Valley who can’t commute to UCLA because of the traffic. They’d spend most of the day on the road. </p>

<p>I do agree that illegals should not get any financial assistance at all. In fact, I think they should only be admitted under the criteria used for international students. The state of California gets no benefit from educating a kid who cannot get a legal job when he gets out of college. And with the job market so tight for college graduates, there is no reason to create more competition for citizens to get jobs.</p>

440

<p>*Quote:
You’d keep poorer but outstanding students who live in the Central Valley or the Inland Empire from attending any school other than UC Merced or UC Riverside.</p>

<p>========================================</p>

<p>I don’t think that is so bad. One of the reasons those two campuses are not ranked as highly is because the outstanding students get siphoned off to Cal and UCLA.</p>

<p>The goal shouldn’t be to equalize educational opportunities using the richest students as the common denominator. A free ride to UC Riverside or Merced is an excellent opportunity.*</p>

<p>I agree with that second quote. those other UCs would quickly get better. And it’s not like UCM or UCR are crappy schools. </p>

<p>And…it’s not the gov’ts’ job to equalize these things. If UCLA and Cal want to use donor money to give housing/meal scholarships to these smart kids, that’s their business…but don’t use tax-payer money. </p>

<p>and…these high stats kids do have other opportunities…they can get accepted to top schools that give need based aid or other schools that give merit money.</p>

<p>If it’s the gov’ts job to equalize, then it would be the gov’ts job to move very smart kids to better schools/districts for K-12…which the gov’t doesn’t do. </p>

<p>Besides, if Calif were to issue extra need-based FA based on super high stats, that would cause hoots and hollers as well. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that many tax-payers don’t have the money to send their own kids to these “sleep-away” UCs or CSUs, so why should they be paying for some other person’s child’s room and board??? How crazy is it to tell a family who earns $85k per year that their taxes are going to pay for some other kids sleep away experience, while their OWN kids have to commute to the local CC, CSU, or UC.</p>

<p>*Is Bakersfield commuting distance to UCLA? I know kids who live in the Valley who can’t commute to UCLA because of the traffic. They’d spend most of the day on the road. *</p>

<p>Obviously, there would be mileage rules that take traffic into account. Someone who lives in Bakersfield has CSU Bakersfield in their area. UCSB is the closest UC, but is still probably too far.</p>

<p>For those who live in a city with a CSU, but no UC nearby, could go to the CSU for 2 years, and then transfer to a UC for a unique major and get aid for that (if they qualify for aid - which I think should have a GPA component as well.).</p>