<p>Even if you don’t get money as an undergrad, there are tons of merit-based scholarships for Graduate Students.</p>
<p>Another plausible option is considering Canada. Yes it is colder here, but I’m currently studying math at the University of Waterloo and my tuition is $2,615 per term. Its more for international students, but still quite reasonable. And any follower of the Putnam will know that Waterloo regularly places quite well, 5th in north america this year. While that’s by no means sufficient evidence to demonstrate the quality of the program, it certainly helps.
Other schools worth considering are McGill, university of toronto and university of british columbia.</p>
<p>You know, I faced about the same situation over 30 years ago. After I began applying to private colleges, my dad said he’d pay for a public university only. My younger brothers, however, went to private colleges! It might be hard now not to feel like you are missing out, but all these years later, I believe that public universities create better people and citizens. I think they create better scholars for graduate school because they coddle their students less. </p>
<p>This is probably little or no consolation to you now and is just more annoying noise from an old person. It took me decades to reach this spot. Congratulations on UCSB! I look forward to reading about the astonishing array of graduate or professional schools you are accepted to.</p>
<p>Paying for college in today’s economy - no matter how wealthy or financially stable one’s parents are - is no easy feat. As a mother of two very small children of my own, I am already concerned about how to save/plan ahead as the costs of higher education continue to rise. But I will say this: my husband’s parents were quite well-off and did not pay for his college education. He was responsible for handling his own expenses and loans. He was not a stellar high school student, but knowing he would have to bear the weight of this financial burden, he worked hard in college to figure out ways to lessen his tuition expense. He became an RA and after graduating with his BA, he worked for his college while obtaining his master’s degree. Since he was an employee, his tuition was covered. There are ways to make things work, and while it is always nice to have your parents front the money, it is not always possible. Consider this an opportunity to apply yourself in ways you never thought possible and make the best of it! Good luck :)</p>
<p>It really does suck when parents won’t pay and they can afford it. My friend’s parents assured him they would pay for his college if, and only if, he went to one of HYPSM. So he worked really hard throughout high school, and managed to get into one of those schools. At which point his parents–who have just bought a new house and a Lexus, and make 200,000+/year–essentially said “Just Kidding! You actually are on your own; we aren’t paying anything for you to go to college.” But of course financial aid doesn’t cover this, and the kid is on his own.</p>
<p>I’m just going to throw something out there. You could always, with your parents, petition for emancipation. Ta Da! You’re now a broke, independent student with no job and an EFC of 0. Or you could join the military, have a kid, adopt a kid, or any of the myriad of other means to achieve independency. Emancipation couldn’t hurt. #justsayin</p>
<p>I looked up PLUS criteria, and, yes, a parent can get a co-signer for PLUS. If deemed credit worthy, the loan can go that route.</p>
<p>However, any family in such dire financial straits that they cannot qualify for PLUS unless it is an exceptional situation that will work itself out in certainty, should not be borrowing. Going to an expensive college is not the “be all, end all” situation. Borrowing huge amounts just to get what one wants without looking at the long and short term ramifications for the whole family is unwise and can be catastrophic. We have seen in these past years that many average families can lose their homes, go bankrupt, lose it all. It can happen and has happened. Just because you can get the money out of a bank or a parent or a co signer does not mean that the repayment of that money is not going to be painless. And these loans cannot be discharged as others can. </p>
<p>The down side has to be carefully examined. The upside is obvious buoyed with the joys of immediate gratification.</p>
<p>The original person asking the question never indicated WHY his/her parents aren’t willing to offer any financial support. Is it because they are opposed to your choice of major or are there other factors involved? Without more info, we are left to guess. For some of the other more recent comments on this post, I think is very reasonable to set a ceiling on how much parents are willing to pay towards college, regardless of their financial means. HS students can also work at part time jobs or even have some income while in college and help do their part. I think it is nonsense to imply that only those attending ‘prestigious’ colleges (however you define that) will have successful careers upon graduation. You will find people with a wide range of skills/ability and eventually future success at every college.</p>
<p>The problem here is that unless you have a very unusual job your income will never keep up with the tuition increases. Moreover saving for college for the most part actually works against you quite often. The current FA system operates as a sort of income/wealth tax on the affluent class making over 200k but far from rich who end up with zero FA while people making 120-160k who spent every dime on materialistic things/travel and saved nothing will get nice FA from the top schools especially if they have more than one in college. It also can pay for one spouse to retire or work par-time to stay below the income threshold. The current system soon will collapse when even familes making 250-300k can’t afford tuition.</p>
<p>This is an excellent discussion. Bravo CC participants.
Years ago, while applying for FA to an expensive private HS, we learned the dirty little secret of the way it is allocated: frugal and consciences families who save- are given little. Those who live with no such concerns are given aid, even when all else is more-or-less equal.
Our kids went to a public high school, thank you very much. How fortunate we were to have a good one as an option.
“But,” we were told, “This changes when it comes to FA at the university level. There’s so much out there, and you will not be penalized for having (very) modest retirement accounts.”
Once again our child attempted both the private and the public route, and the FA at the excellent private colleges he got into came up so painfully short. It would have been funny if it were a movie about someone else, starring a good comedian. (“You don’t have money, Dahhling? Borrow a fortune and owe even more!”)
And once again, the best public universities in the country showed their immense value.
And now I read on this forum that this all changes when it comes to …Ta-da! Graduate School~~~
Don’t hold your breath. Working hard and saving and being responsible about both spending and borrowing are values that will serve you your whole life, but they have NOTHING to do with financing private education.
Can we ask ourselves, in this great country of ours, what exactly we do, really and truly, honestly and sincerely value?
Because private colleges encouraging irresponsible and even obscene borrowing can never be called “educational.”</p>
<p>The original OP had a different problem. When parents not only can help, but can do so without becoming a burden on their kids only a few short years down the line, this is an internal family issue, and not one that affects too many in the public forum. In such a case emancipation could be in order.</p>
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<p>Yes, a credit-worthy co-signer can agree to be liable for a PLUS loan. Even though students can get a Stafford loan if their parents are denied a PLUS, the maximum amount they receive is often not enough to cover what they need. With PLUS, however, they can borrow up to the cost of attendance (minus any other aid they are getting). I don’t necessarily endorse taking that path (i.e., getting a co-signer and borrowing a lot) but for some students it is an option that seems to work.</p>
<p>"Can we ask ourselves, in this great country of ours, what exactly we do, really and truly, honestly and sincerely value?
Because private colleges encouraging irresponsible and even obscene borrowing can never be called educational. "</p>
<p>I think what we have is today’s politicians. Obscene spending and no remorse over it!</p>
<p>Many financial advisors tell parents of college-age children not to put retirement savings at risk in order to finance a college education. In other words, don’t borrow from your 401k and don’t forego saving for retirement. The rationale is that you can borrow easily for college but it would be nearly impossible to borrow for retirement. </p>
<p>Many parents (mine included) choose not to help with college costs at all. My parents were very middle class (they always told me that they had jobs, not careers), in the true sense of overall financial picture, but I’m sure they could have afforded to give me a couple of thousand dollars a year. That said, today, they are secure in their retirement and I don’t have to worry about my parents financially whatsoever. </p>
<p>While I was upset with my parents when I had to fully finance college by myself, I chose a reasonably priced school over others to which I had been accepted (in fact, cost was the single most important decision in my choice), I took a couple of jobs and made my way through and now, as an adult, I am happy that my parents made the choice that they made. </p>
<p>In some circumstances, refusing to finance a college education can be a rational, though painful, choice for parents.</p>
<p>This was my situation. My EFC would have been far more than my parents were willing to pay. As a result, I’ve tried many of the choices that one has to make the best of this situation.</p>
<p>Your best option is challenging but probably possible. (It’s also the one with which I don’t really have first-hand experience.) If you are a very strong student, you have a decent shot at merit aid at good universities. Since you’re a sophomore, most of your high school career is still up to you. So you can work very hard to make yourself a stronger candidate for scholarships. In doing so, don’t neglect extracurricular activities which will make you a more well-rounded candidate.</p>
<p>If you can’t earn a merit scholarship at a good four-year university, can you obtain the necessary pre-med courses at a community college? I started at a community college. The academics were surprisingly strong. Even the college experience wasn’t entirely lacking; it was possible to get involved in student organizations. Many community colleges are surprisingly strong academically despite being less expensive than four-year public universities. The advantage of starting at a community college is that you only have to pay for 2-3 years instead of 4-5 years at the school from which you ultimately graduate. So even if the amount you have to borrow per year at the transfer school is high, this is multiplied by a lower number of years. This strategy can make it possible to at least attend the school you want for some time and to earn a degree from that school.</p>
<p>However, you need to be absolutely certain that your local community college offers the courses you need for a pre-med track. Also, community colleges vary widely in quality. Many are underrated. However, some may not meet your needs academically. It’s important to investigate your local community college as carefully as you would any four-year school.</p>
<p>This also begs the question of where to go when you’re done with community college. If you weren’t awarded sufficient merit aid as a first-year applicant, it’s going to be even tougher as a transfer applicant. This is because merit aid is generally more available to first-year applicants than transfer applicants. At this point, your best option is to look at good four-year universities which are relatively affordable even without financial aid. This doesn’t have to mean your in-state public universities. Some states, notably Minnesota and New York, have relatively low out-of-state tuition at their public universities. As previously noted, you could also study in Canada. It’s actually cheaper to be an international student in Canada than to be an out-of-state student at many public universities in the USA. I attended McGill and found the academics to be excellent. And I found the campus culture to be enjoyable, with many campus organizations one could join. I also found the university to be very inclusive.</p>
<p>Some students in your situation just attend their in-state universities by default without a thorough investigation. After all, if one feels (albeit erroneously) that there are no other real options, why bother investigating? This approach is extremely dangerous. I attended an in-state flagship university which purportedly was strong in my major. Despite this, it wasn’t what I was looking for academically. And the social environment was downright toxic.</p>
<p>Also, you may have to be at the top of the applicant pool in order to qualify for good merit aid. However, there’s a limit to how much academic quality and name recognition you should sacrifice for merit aid. I eventually graduated from a private university which offered a merit scholarship but which was more or less average academically. If you’re really a top-tier student, you’re likely to be bored at universities that are academically average or below average. Also, it’s very important to attend a university which has a national reputation. Otherwise, if you leave the region, people will not have heard of your school, and you will have little support from alumni networks. This may make it difficult to get precisely the kinds of jobs you’re going to school for. Partly for these reasons, I’m a self-employed IT professional who generally pursues positions which don’t absolutely require a four-year degree. Put another way, I might as well not have earned the degree, because I’d be working at the same types of positions without the degree.</p>
<p>Also, not everyone who studies pre-med eventually attends medical school. It’s important to choose a school which is right for you even if you don’t eventually go to medical school. Thus, attending a lower-tier school with the hopes of getting into medical school is risky. If you aren’t admitted (or don’t attend for any other reason), all you have is a degree from a lower-tier school. You should also get frank advice about whether attending a lower-tier school is going to work against you for admissions to medical school. (Medical school admissions isn’t my area of specialty.)</p>
<p>In your situation, waiting until age 24 to start a four-year degree is worth considering if you cannot afford to attend a university which meets your needs. Once you earn any Bachelor’s degree, financial aid for further undergraduate study is extremely limited. Thus, earning a Bachelor’s degree which doesn’t meet your needs can actually prevent you from attending a school which does meet your needs once you’re finally old enough to be considered independent for financial aid purposes. This fact is hindering me from changing careers.</p>
<p>There are worthwhile things to do with your life even if you don’t have a degree. If you have a skill, you can make money using that skill. This is especially possible if you’re willing to be self-employed, admittedly a high-risk path but also a high-reward path if successful. I started computer programming professionally before earning my degree. Another interesting possibility is teaching English in foreign countries. Some countries will issue a work visa for you to do this even if you don’t have a four-year degree.</p>
<p>Sally, our D will likely have to take out a Parent Plus loan for several thousand dollars with us, her parents, as co-signers. In 4 years, who will be receiving the bill ( or the coupon book!) in the mail to make monthly payments? Will it come to us as parents? Or will it be addressed to her? She fully intends to pay it back on her own, as she has younger siblings who we will be putting through college at that time. We could help her at that point if she needs help, but all involved are clear that student loans will be the student’s responsibility, first and foremost.</p>
<p>Something not mentioned in this thread is the GI bill. Our government is extremely generous on paying for education after service in the military. I believe you can qualify for the GI bill after three years of service, which would put you independently in school by age 21, not 24.</p>
<p>Sally, I will tell you what I did coming from a similar situation. I am now a junior transfer student at Cal Poly SLO.</p>
<p>My parents had planned to help me with school. I graduated high school thinking I had plenty of money in a trust fund and that they would help me with the expenses. I moved across the country and found out the hard way that the money was gone. This was the tail end of 2008 when the financial crisis started hitting really hard. All my trust fund money evaporated over night and my parents could no longer help me. I didn’t have a way to pay for the school that I had moved 3000 miles to attend.</p>
<p>I was devastated because I didn’t get to have the “typical college experience” like the rest of my friends, but really, things have worked out for the best. I moved home and attended my local community college for two years. I now have two years of college under my belt and no debt. I even managed to work full-time and attend school full-time so I could live on my own for one year out of the two years. I kept my grades up (3.94 GPA) and found a new dream school. The highly competitive nature of transfer spots at Cal Poly provided me with the drive to make it all happen for myself. Cal Poly is in my home state and tuition is about $2500 a quarter. I was offered enough stafford loans to cover tuition ($7500) and I found an apartment off-campus. I have to work to afford living expenses and I may have about $15000 in debt when I graduate if I don’t receive any more scholarships or aid. I consider it a necessary move. It is incredibly unfair that my parents can’t help and I still don’t receive financial aid while other friends receive nearly full financial aid with grants and work study, but I can’t do anything about it so I’m trying to make the best of a bad situation. I may wait until I’m 24 to get my Master’s and attend law school so that I can receive more aid as an independent student but I think things will work out in the end and I know I’ll be a stronger person because of all the crud I had to go through to get my education.</p>
<p>It blows, but try to make the best of your situation. Apply for scholarships. Make friends with your professors if you go to community college because they will be the best candidates to write you letters of recommendation for scholarships. As long as the end game is the same, does it really matter how you get there? You may even feel more pride like I do because you have to do it on your own.</p>
<p>I was in the same situation two years ago. I worked my butt off in high school and ended up getting a full ride to Washington and Lee University. But there are a lot of state schools that will give full rides to NMF as well. Perhaps one of those could be an option?</p>
<p>Parents need to talk with their kids right off the back about what they’re willing to pay. Seriously, it just hurts more if you set your heart on a place you can’t afford.
My parents told me before I even started looking for colleges what they would be willing to pay. No, I’m not going to any prestigious university even though I’m ranked a lot higher than my peers at my high school. I chose a small LAC in NY because it fit what I was looking for. Because I was ranked higher than the average students at their school I got a pretty hefty set of scholarships AND the opportunity to study abroad my first year of college. Now, I know that isn’t for everybody, but it was something that really appealed to me.
Don’t get set on just the top schools if you know that you’ll go broke just trying to attend classes. Besides, if you’re going to grad school it’s a great idea to do what I’m doing. My GPA will certainly benefit from going to this smaller school where my SAT scores were higher than the majority of the student body. Recommendation letters will be more personal because I’ll have more contact with the professors than I would have if I’d gone to study at a larger research university. I’ll no doubt have plenty of leadership positions on different student activities. So many opportunities! Plus, these’ll help you nab paid internships and scholarships so that you will be able to afford the grad school of your dreams.</p>
<p>I would just like to note that it makes lots of sense for parents to set a cap on what they can spend, based on a sensible review of their finances. But I have little respect for parents who set an *arbitrary *cap that has nothing to do with their actual financial situation.</p>