Ok so in anyone’s experience that had a child accepted to a large well known program (a reach school like CMU or NYU or another of the top schools expense wise) , is there any chance of getting a lot of aid from these schools? Like can anyone give figures even ballpark of aid $ they got ( not massive need based because we won’t qualify for much of that I bet) the reason I ask is I know my D would like to apply to at least one expensive (50000 a year +) school and I think it’s just a waste of time if she were to get accepted and then only offer like 10000 or so in merit and talent aid. We couldn’t afford it still.
I know people who have gotten massive aid from both of those schools-nearly full rides and full rides, but it is very much so need based. From what I understand CMU is need blind if accepted in the first round (as opposed to accepted from the waitlist).
I PMed you, @theaterwork …
I was waitlisted at CMU, but waitlisted applicants still receive an aid estimate. I would have been offered a LOT of money - but it was all need-based grants, and there was no guarantee that they could be renewed all four years. As an applicant who needs a lot of aid to make school feasible, I am much more comfortable with the offer I received from DePaul, which took need into account but which was presented as a guaranteed renewable scholarship.
It would almost certainly be need based, but need based doesn’t mean you’re destitute. You can be middle class and get large need based grants. It depends on the college, the size of its endowment, its policies on giving aid, how much they want you (a lot of need is actually a combination of need/merit), whether the theatre department has autonomy, etc. All of my kids have gotten sizable need based grants that are in some cases also connected to merit. As far as their being renewable–the need based is guaranteed unless your financial situation drastically changes.
You can’t really predict what schools will give what, although it’s easier in a large state university since they often have it published. You can’t know how much they’ll want you, for one. However, one way I’ve gauged is to look at their endowment and their stats on meeting need (not by loans). Each school publishes this info.
I think it’s fine to apply to a financial reach as long as you explain to your kid that they have two hurdles–getting in, and affording it. I’ve told this before, but to use a non-theatre example: years back, my older daughter had to turn down RISD (Rhode Island School of Design) when they would not give her any need based grants, only loans. So it was like, “Congratulations, you can borrow $250,000!” No. She was disappointed, but that’s life. The same year she got a sizable grant from MICA (another top art school); they even increased it slightly when we appealed. You just don’t know how much they can give and how much they’ll want you. My son got a gigantic grant from Tisch (nearly full ride) some time ago, at the same time people were saying, like now, that Tisch ‘never’ gives out grants.
I wouldn’t apply to all such colleges though. I’d have a range of reach, safety and matches, and that includes financial reaches too.
I told my daughter she could apply to perhaps one or two expensive schools that she has her heart set on. One of them seems to be Pace because of that blasted NYC address
The good news with Pace is that they seem to be generous with aide. I think every person I have known accepted there (and academic acceptance is rolling/ has come quickly for most people I have known who applied) has gotten significant aide
@toowonderful good news on aid at Pace. Not sure on admittance numbers for them I seem to remember that being a hard school to get into. I know the girl just chosen for the Sound of Music tour is a junior there! My D will tell me this info as soon as she sees it today lol
Pace is for sure a big artistic reach. Also, they are legendary for frequent contact After academic but BEFORE artistic admission- calls, emails, letters etc that start with “congratulations” a but aren’t about the news you actually waiting to hear. :-SS
Pace offered my d a large scholarship based only on her grades, but then she was not accepted into the BFA program. They did send and call us lots of times, even after I told them she wasn’t going to attend.
Pace misplaced everything we sent to them over and over, claiming they never received it. We sent ACT scores 3 times, transcripts 4 times, and even hand delivered them to the admissions advisor and she still misplaced them! It was the most unorganized admissions department that we dealt with. In April after all acceptances were in, I called the Director of Admissions and the Theatre department to let them know the problems. We still have not received an acceptance or rejection from Pace, only an apology for their incompetence when I called. Luckily, Pace was not a top choice for my kid and hopefully something like this will not happen to a kid that has his/her heart set on Pace.
^^^ That was Wright for us. Montclair also had some issues with this, but not as bad. Actually, we had to send transcripts to UArts twice, too, and that is where D is attending in the fall. It was very frustrating, especially at Wright, where D was waitlisted. I always wondered if her incomplete application status (even into the middle of May, although we had sent things numerous times and in numerous ways) had anything to do with her waitlist status. Probably not, but it was an added stress at the time. It’s a good thing D was good about calling schools to see if her applications were complete; a couple of these schools (Montclair, Wright) would say they were, only to say they weren’t a few weeks later. Sometimes, the admissions person just hadn’t checked off a box (like for ACT test scores received or whatever), and didn’t realize it until D called.
@theaterwork NYU will offer a package that will be reflective of how much they want you. On average in the past year or so they have met about 70% of need and have gapped people for the rest. So it is important for you to have a basic idea of what your EFC is and assume that you will get about 70% of the difference between that and the cost of attending on average. If they really like someone, they will come closer to meeting full need. If they are on the fence, they might give you less. If your EFC (based on the FAFSA/ CSS Profile) shows that you do not have need, NYU Steinhardt (Vocal Performance with MT concentration) does give talent merit aid. I do not believe Tisch does at this time.
D rec’d $11K a year from Steinhardt in talent merit aid (no need) a few years ago. Good luck!
Huh? This implies that anyone at NYU who is a full pay student, NYU doesn’t want nearly as much as those they offer assistance to. I’d venture that there are plenty of full pay students at NYU that they really want. Without them, there would little aid to go around for anyone else.
NYU Steinhardt has some merit or talent money that they award independent of need and @uskoolfish’s daughter is a good example. However, Tisch’s merit and talent money, as Tisch says in every meeting, and on their website, is targeted to need eligible students. So if you are not considered need-eligible, no matter how academically capable or talented you are, you should expect to be a full pay student. I suppose it is possible that once you are in the need-eligible bucket, how much Tisch may award you could be a function of how much they want you vs. how much your need is but I’m not sure how anyone, other than someone in the admissions committee would know that is how it works or doesn’t work for sure.
The actual numbers for CMU and NYU are as follows. 7% of students admitted to CMU receive merit aid averaging $7K/year. For NYU 2% of admitted students are awarded $7K on average merit aid. In our case, this year D was awarded:
$25K by Case Western
$6K by Iowa State
$20K by SMU
$12K by U.Maryland
$25K by GW
$15K by Kenyon
If you are looking to maximize merit aid, your son or daughter needs to apply where they are strong relative to the applicant pool and they need to apply to colleges that award a lot of merit aid. I think if you really want to hit the jackpot it helps if you clearly express a strong desire to attend the school.
@halflokum I wondered if we would hear from you 
@Wje9164be - I think you might find in the context of this conversation that there is some apples/oranges in terms of bfa programs vs other majors.
@halflokum What I am explaining is that for those with need, NYU might choose to meet all their need (seldom) or only a portion. The average need met is about 70%, but if they really really want you, then they might meet more. And, yes, I have heard that directly from guidance, admissions and from a program director.
My younger D is full pay at NYU. We knew when she applied to NYU that we would not get a cent of need based aid. She applied ED which meant that she would not get any merit aid either (for talent in art.) This has nothing to do with how much they wanted her to attend or not. (They must have liked her plenty because they placed her in Steinhardt’s Scholar’s program.)
For many programs at NYU there is no merit aid to even be considered for other than the university-wide MLK Scholarship. Most aid and scholarships are only need based. But if a student with need is accepted and gets barely any of their need met, the school is not really showing that they expect you to come.
@Wje9164be The $7K average merit aid (without need) you quoted is only available for certain programs. Except for the MLK scholarship which is still non-need and open to students in all schools, the majority of the merit aid given (to that 2% of students) come from talent scholarships for music and art through Steinhardt. They are the only non-need based scholarships other than MLK and some particular scholarships for winners of Siemans and the like.
So if you are not in a talent based program in Steinhardt, that merit aid number is misleading. If you are applying to a Steinhardt talent program, the percent of students who get non-need based merit aid is higher than 2%.
Yes, i wasn’t focusing on the OP’s interest in the arts. With that in mind maybe Kenyon and Oberlin. Thought others might benefit from the actual numbers
@uskoolfish, OK. I didn’t read your post as limiting your comment to need-eligible applicants at NYU and as the OP doesn’t yet know her need status (since they are more than a year away from even applying), I really wasn’t sure what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying.
Regardless, some may recall we had quite a lengthy discussion in another thread about Tisch Drama* and merit aid as it relates to need and the differences of how things are handled in Steinhardt vs. Tisch Drama. Long story short, we did learn that you cannot glean much of anything from just the EFC with respect to merit aid at Tisch so I’m not sure how one could ever use a 70% number to estimate anything nor therefore how one could assume how an award corresponds to how much NYU wants you. I know of a good example of a Tisch student with an EFC of zero who still received a respectable merit and talent award but was also awarded subsidized loans and work study which means they would be considered aid eligible by whatever formula is used behind the curtain at NYU. Perhaps the fact that there was any award whatsoever on an EFC of zero was indeed because the applicant was a very strong student but there is just no way to know what the thinking and practice is in any given cycle unless you are in the room and have all of the facts on every applicant so you could compare. We don’t have the luxury of that data and I’d be uncomfortable leaving any applicant including the need-eligible applicants to read to read much into the size of the award and how much they are wanted.
- Note I am specifically referring to how things work in Tisch Drama for undergraduates. Other branches of Tisch like the Film school have their own scholarships etc. and things may work differently there.