The motivation for the law was the case of parent January Littlejohn being kept in the dark by a Florida school district about gender identity conversations school officials were having with her child. I agree that a parent has a right to be informed, and that is what the law guarantees.
How does the law interfere with these topics?
Florida is the fastest growing state, and the governor just won re-election by the widest margin in 40 years. Maybe it’s not such a bad place to be.
This example is not as has been portrayed.
In an August 27, 2020, email to a teacher, Littlejohn stated, in part, “This has been an incredibly difficult situation for our family and her father and I are trying to be as supportive as we can. She is currently identifying as non-binary. She would like to go by the new name [redacted] and prefers the pronouns they/them. We have not changed her name at home yet, but I told her if she wants to go by the name [redacted] with her teachers, I won’t stop her.”
The teacher thanked Littlejohn and asked if she should share with other teachers.
Littlejohn explained it was difficult and confusing, and went on to write, “Whatever you think is best or [redacted] can handle it herself.”
In another email the same day, Littlejohn told the teacher, “This gender situation has thrown us for a loop. I sincerely appreciate your support. I’m going to let her take the lead on this.”
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/06/politics/fact-check-desantis-dont-say-gay-family-narrative/index.html
Even before the law, educators were vulnerable. It will be much worse now.
Let me refer you, once again to this quote:
Look at the part that I put in italics.
That is prom the Bible. That quote is what transphobic Christians use to justify their transphobia. The person who led this legislation, and was there when DeSantis was signing it is a Christian minister.
What else do you need?
Not a single teacher in Florida will be fired for saying, in class, “there are only two gender identities”, even if it is illegal according to this law. Not a single teacher will be charged for that, nor will a single teacher stand on trial for that. Any teacher, though, who will say in class “there are more than two gender identities” will be lucky to get away with a rebuke. Look up Casey Scott, who was already fired for speaking about sexuality in class in Florida.
I would really like you to tell me where, exactly, the “friend” has learned about sex and sexuality from.
Of course, why end this with sex education? Get rid of schools, get rid of teachers, and let kids learn mathematics, grammar, literature, biology, physics, and the rest of the elementary, middle and high school curricula from their friends with guidance from their parents.
Why go to University as well. Just go to a friend to learn about advanced mathematics, engineering, medicine, even. Let’s replace medical schools with random friends teaching doctors how to remove an appendix. With guidance from their parents, of course.
Not to mention that the entire scenario of a kid being taught about sex from a friend, while their parents are present, and evidently correcting the friend, is something that belongs in a SNL skit.
Actually the scenario you describe kind of reminds me of “Sex Education” on Netflix. My kids loved that show. The two of them barricaded themselves together in my son’s room and they watched it together and discussed it, while we parents were not allowed to enter. Oddly enough, they first asked our permission to watch it, which amused me.
The law says that teachers:
“Shall not intentionally provide classroom instruction to students in grades 4 through 12 on sexual orientation or gender identity.”
The poetry studied in AP Latin, the Iliad, and ancient Roman culture itself involve gay love and gay sex. Books assigned in AP Lit have gay and gender-bending characters. Teachers will have to bar all that from their classrooms.
How can teachers teach the AIDS crisis or Title IX without “providing classroom instruction about sexual orientation”? Our students discuss the right to privacy, how it changed with the reversal of Roe v Wade, and how that could affect Obergefell. That is intentional instruction about sexual orientation, because it is about the rights of gay Americans. They also study the gay rights movement as part of our history and government. That instruction is now banned in Florida, even in the classrooms of 17 and 18 year olds.
To me, this is government overreach and a violation of the free speech rights of teachers and students. Yes, these rights can be limited to a certain extent, especially in public schools, but it is unprecedented (and in my opinion, unconstitutional) to restrict speech this far in high school.
If students can’t read the required AP books (which are all included for specific reasons), that may ultimately impact their AP test scores too.
Straw man
Moot point. Fact check follows.
Works for AP English Literature are chosen by the teachers. There are no required texts from the College Board.
The Iliad is not part of the AP Latin curriculum. Required readings for the AP Latin exam are selections from Virgil’s Aeneid and Caesar’s Gallic War. The gay subtext in the Aeneid is in Book IX-XI, which is not part of the required reading.
For non-AP courses in Ancient Civilization, texts are already chosen by the teacher/school/district.
Thanks, I didn’t realize teachers have latitude in AP Lit. Appreciate that helpful detail.
The question I was asked on this thread was, “How does the law interfere with these topics?”
I explained that sexual orientation and gender identity are central parts of lessons taught and discussed in high school classrooms, and gave examples. I used examples from AP classes because those are the classes my kids took, but these issues are also taught and discussed in many other classes at our high school, such as Supreme Court Cases, Sociology, Psychology, English, Government and American History.
You labeled my answer a “Straw man.” I genuinely don’t understand why.
Creekland, there are no such restrictions on teachers in PA but as you note the number of new teachers is plummeting dramatically there. Hard to blame the policy for teacher shortages when it isnt in effect in those locations.
Given that those lessons were all covered when we attended high school decades ago without discussing gender identity apparently it can be done. Surely you too took those courses in high school. It seems unlikely any high school discussed gender identity issues before 2010 at the earliest.
I am still interested in knowing what teachers in Florida are currently doing that would be prohibited by this law.
I would hope they arent doing anything currently, just as they arent engaging in any other inappropriate conduct prohibited by law. If the action isn’t occuring anyway, the prohibition won’t matter.
But we did discuss gender identity. Being male or female is a gender identity and it is implicit in all sorts of discussions in literature, history and biology. How do you discuss women’s suffrage without talking about gender identity?
I still want to know. I’ve got a kindergarten granddaughter. One of her friends at school has two moms. So when they have sharing time sometimes it comes up. But I don’t think her teacher is doing any “instruction”. More like acknowledgment that some people have two moms or two dads. But sometimes they overlap.
Years ago my child was in a first-grade class that was making Mothers’ Day cards. One child said they needed two because they had two moms. Another child said, “You can’t have two moms, everyone has a mom and a dad.” The teacher froze, not knowing what to say (this was around 2000 in a religious setting). Another child piped up, “I have two moms, my real mom is in jail so I live with my aunt mom.” Then another kid says, “I have my mom and my dad’s wife mom.” Another kid says, “I have a mom in China and my real mom I live with now.” The teacher looked around and realized that my child was the only one in the group who lived with her male and female biological parents who were married to each other. Kids today have experienced such a different world than some of us did. I think it is sometimes hard to realize how much society has changed in the past 10-15 years. Preventing discussion (and maybe some instruction too to give accurate information) of gender/sexual identities is just not realistic in 2023.
Pretty sure that would be biological identity, and not within the scope of the regulation.
I think the opposite is true – if there wasn’t an actual problem before, then this law is actually meant to do something else. Which is why the wording of the law is important, right?
It seems to me that the fear is that teachers or going to somehow convert a kid into being trans or gay - which while I think is silly, maybe we could start off with a law or guideline that says when it comes to a student’s personal gender or sexuality - here are the rules to follow… and that can be whatever.
That then doesn’t get into the idea of not talking about something that clearly exists – some people are gay, some people are transgender, most people aren’t… those aren’t reasons to treat someone badly (which is where the state’s interest comes in – we have an interest in creating a “civil” civil society, and that means not being uncivil to people for things they don’t have a choice over, or for things that don’t effect other people directly).
Shouldnt the general rules regarding bullying cover all this ? Regardless of whether the bullying is due to the kid being gay or tall or fat or unattractive or awkward or whatever. Everyone needs to treat each other in a civil manner.
So, this will probably get more indepth than this forum is good for, but when you talk about women’s suffrage it is 100% about gender and not biology. Most of the debate at the time was around what women’s roles were in society - which is what gender is, how you relate to society, biology plays a large part of that, obviously, but the definition of gender is not the same as biology.
So, I would argue that you could not talk about women’s suffrage or rights without talking about gender identity.
In your example, did you want the teacher to lead a lesson in foster policy for incarcerated parents? Or international adoption procedures? Or how about all the various aspects of divorce/step-parenting/living with a parent’s new partner? Since that isnt covered, I do not know why gay parents would be discussed either.
How about the teacher just says, there are many kinds of families, write about yours and why it matters to you?