<p>BB61 - I do not know what goes on at your school. YOU are the one that said
That is why I called you delusional. You are not dealing with reality here. You seem to want to live in this fantasy world of how people suppose to behave, if they should step out of that pristine box then it is “punish, punish.”</p>
<p>Every year we always have a few cases of cheating at our school. The administration has handed out the same punishment every time - expulsion. Even with such a severe punishment, we have seen straight A students do it. Those kids cheat because of tremendous pressure we all put on them, not because the punishment is not severe enough. Until the culture and environment change, some of those kids (pushed by their parents to excel) will continue to cheat, no matter how severe the punishment is.</p>
<p>My daughter lied to me about her grades when she was younger, as a matter of fact she forged my signature on her test paper so I wouldn’t see the C on it. My instinct was to punish her for her transgression, but I thought about what was MY ownership of this problem. She was a good kid, never lied about anything, but this. It was a wake up call to me that maybe I was putting too much pressure on her. We had a very frank discussion about it. It was 10 years ago. She’s never lied to me once since (at least not I am aware of), and I stopped questioning about her grades. She graduated with over 4.0 UW in high school.</p>
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<p>I would say any parent who could raise two kids to adulthood without getting into trouble indeed knows what he/she is talking about. It takes a lot more than punishment to deter someone from breaking the rules.</p>
<p>Ok, whatever. Believe what you want to believe however the fact is it is indeed RARE for us to have a student who breaks a rule and requires discipline. We teach our students very early on the differences of right from wrong, what is and is not proper behavior and the concept of honor. We have a student designed and enforced honor code in our high school (yes - this means if somone violates the honor code - the students determine the punishment and they take their job very seriously. The one incident a few years ago when they had to address an issue, they gave out worse punishment than I would have) and we even have an honor code in grade school.</p>
<p>Whether you want to believe it or not, our kids our great kids. For those in the high school, we treat them like adults (they have far more freedom than most public schools) and they act accordingly. </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean they all are perfect. As I said, once in a rare while someone breaks a rule - and when they do, we treat the matter seriously. But we are always fair and consistent with our decisions and i believe our student body and parents respect that.</p>
<p>Last year we had to expell someone for breaking a rule - and there was no outcry from an angry mob of parents. Sure, the parents of the student who was expelled were not happy, but they were more upset at their child than us for acting as we needed to. </p>
<p>When we suspended a couple students a few years ago for an incident which caused some damage, their parents didn’t form an angry mob and boycott a school fundraiser. Instead, they made their students come to our school over the summer and work with our maintenance department until they earned enough to pay back the school for the damage they caused.</p>
<p>But incidents like this are indeed very rare here, whether you want to believe it or not</p>
<p>“Those kids cheat because of tremendous pressure we all put on them, not because the punishment is not severe enough. Until the culture and environment change, some of those kids (pushed by their parents to excel) will continue to cheat, no matter how severe the punishment is.”</p>
<p>The kids have a choice. They don’t need to cheat, and I don’t view their cheating as being due to others’ behavior. I view their cheating as being due to their own lack of ethics and integrity. There are plenty of students who are under pressure and still don’t cheat.</p>
<p>I also don’t want to be included in your “we.” If you believe that you put tremendous pressure on your kids to excel academically, then speak for yourself. I always told my kids that while of course I would prefer that they get good grades, I’d rather have them get bad grades than cheat.</p>
<p>I also backed up my words. When he was a freshman, one of my sons was in a class that was left unattended. One student went into the teacher’s computer and printed out a copy of an upcoming exam. None of the kids in the class – including my son – did anything about this.</p>
<p>Son told me. I told the teacher, and told the teacher that I would stand by any punishment that he doled out to the class, and I did that, writing a letter of support for the teacher to have in his personnel file. I also told my son that I neither expected him to cheat or to say nothing when he saw others cheating. </p>
<p>I don’t believe that cheating is something to be excused or expected. I don’t believe that food fights are harmless fun that kids should get a slap on the wrist for participating in. If you believe these things, then speak for yourself, but don’t use “we” because all of us do not agree with you.</p>
<p>I believe berryberry61 because I have seen those kind of environments. Those are schools where parents and administrators value integrity more than they value getting into top schools. Yes, places like that do exist.</p>
<p>“Your posts make you appear like an unreasonable, unforgiving, rigid person who probably doesn’t have any business to be near our kids.”</p>
<p>You might wonder why you are the only person here who seems to be on the attack against berryberry61, who in my opinion has made many reasonable, thoughtful posts. I don’t understand why you’ve turned a disagreement about appropriate punishment into a personal attack.</p>
<p>Does anyone on this thread really think that a student who hasn’t had any other previous “brushes” with his school and has super stats couldn’t be a fab and valued student at a top school?</p>
<p>Does anyone on this thread really think that this one incident “defines” this kid (if so, your own kids better not be living in glass houses - and a few of you on CC KNOW who I mean).</p>
<p>Some people here need to learn to be more understanding with kids. Some here can’t seem to discern the really “bad” kids from the good kids who just made a one-time bad decision. Wake up people, kids are humans, too. Just as we excuse our flaws and shortcomings (and expect forgiveness), we need to be more understanding when our less-knowledgeable kids fail.</p>
<p>NSM - you can believe anything you would like to believe, but it doesn’t make it the “best way” or the only truth. You seem to think that you know what is best for our young people, and what is the best way to teach them from right and wrong, as we could see over and over again with you 15,000+ plus posts. Some of us do not preach as much, and we just take care of what’s under our roof. I don’t think many of us have done that badly in raising our kids. Frankly, your theme just gets old after a while.</p>
<p>Personal attack doesn’t just go one way. These exchanges are inappropriate, so this will be my last post on this thread.</p>
<p>But the trouble is, life often ISN’T forgiving, and our kids need to learn that. If we excuse their misbehaviors, side with them against school discipline, and give them the idea that the punishment will always conform to their idea of fairness – then we are giving them an unrealistic expectation about life in the real world. </p>
<p>As I noted many posts ago, there are consequences to bad behavior. Yes, even for first-timers. Yes, even for “good kids.” Yes, even if the consequences seem unfair. There are consequences. We do our kids a disservice when we teach them to expect otherwise. Far better to teach them to think before they act, to genuinely accept responsibility, and to learn to do better next time. Do you see anything in the OP’s posts that indicates that he is remorseful, or has reflected on his responsibility in this incident, or has resolved to be a better citizen of his school in the future? I don’t. Probably he will get into whatever college he wants to, but if I were his mother, I would not be pleased at what this incident reveals about his character.</p>
<p>Who is this collective “we” you refer to. I think the majority of folks posting on this thread are grounded in reality. That’s why your view is in the minority.</p>
<p>Where is the reality in excusing the misbehavior of a student?</p>
<p>What does it teach a student by siding with them against school discipline?</p>
<p>Where is the reality in telling your young adult - don’t worry mommy will take care of the big bad school administration and make it all better?</p>
<p>The reality is sometimes students do bad things. And when they do, they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Doesn’t matter if it a so called good kid, or one who is not so good. Doesn’t matter if it is a student at the top of their class or one at the bottom. All students need to learn to accept responsibility and think about what they do before acting in an irresponsible manner. </p>
<p>The fact that the OP was looking at top schools is irrelevant to the punishment. What if the OP was a below average student looking at colleges that are low on the spectrum and very easy to get in? You would have no argument because your whole premise is based on excusing / making light of the poor behavior simply because it could hurt the OP from getting into a top college. Thats a poor way to view things and one that sendds the wrong message to students</p>