Food for thought about Smith

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>I’m not sure why I’m being singled out in this, I’m not the one that called you a ■■■■■ or a homophobe, and all I did was respond to the points you brought up about the substance of your visit while pointing out a few factual errors. </p>

<p>But in general I agree with mini – If you’re expecting us to be ashamed or outraged that there are lesbians on campus, sorry, but that’s not going to happen. I’m proud to be a Smith alum and I’m proud of the students that go there. I’m proud that it’s a school that’s accepting of people who are generally not accepted by society. Everyone wants to feel like they belong to some kind of community, whether that be a church, a college, a political party, a family, a town.</p>

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<p>mustangmom, if your daughter wants to have boy friends, she doesn’t have to be the aggressive type to meet them. There will be boys in some of her Smith classes, she can take classes at the other four schools, she can get involved in all kinds of 5-college activities (and I don’t mean drinking and partying). My daughter’s loved taking a course at Amherst this semester and has met some guys; I’m not sure if she’s wanted to pursue friendships with any of them but the possibility’s been there.</p>

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<p>@mustangmom – All I can share with you are my own experiences, maybe they’ll be helpful? I was kind of similar to your daughter. Growing up I never had close male friends. I had a very difficult time with kids in general in middle school and then I switched to an all-female private high school to escape daily torment from my peers. My high school was like a safe oasis after years of difficulty and I really thrived there. Early on in my high school years I fell in love with Smith, though not because of the women’s college aspect. Maybe that was a sub-conscious reason, but consciously I was drawn to the history of the school, it’s physical beauty, and what it could offer me in terms of academic and professional opportunities. </p>

<p>When I was at Smith, I can’t say that I made close male friends there, though I didn’t really make that a priority and I was admittedly not involved in many of the available extra-curriculars that would bring me into regular contact with guys my own age. I did make some of the best female friends I have ever had, and who I still am close to today (one is my roommate and we try to get together with the others annually as our entry-level salaries permit). However, an interesting phenomena I noticed was that when I left Smith to do study abroad, semester in washington, and then upon graduation, most of the new friends I made away from Smith were men. I don’t know what it was (certainly not conscious choice, maybe luck of the draw, maybe reaction to the estrogen pool I’d been immersed in for so long), but I found that after going to Smith I had a confidence and a self assured nature with guys that I never would have had in middle school or even high school. I think because Smith really gave me the opportunity to be grounded in myself and sure of who I was, without any competing pressures or complications, I no longer was afraid to approach things or people (or genders) I didn’t know much about. </p>

<p>The flip side of that is that while I have a much easier time conversing with and befriending guys now, I do find I have trouble making new friend with women now that I’ve been at Smith. I’ve discussed this with some of my other friends and I think it’s because with some (though by no means all) of the non-Smith women we meet who are our age, we react to them the way we would to our Smith peers and we don’t always get the same response, which then kind of throws of our game and makes it a little harder to relate. I want to be clear, i do have female friends that didn’t go to Smith, but it’s not quite the same with them as it is with my Smith friends. Maybe it’s the girls I’m running in to though, might not be a general thing. </p>

<p>Anyway, that’s my story, hope it’s helpful!</p>

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<p>Also regarding the trans student who could not host, I have to admit I feel like we don’t have all the facts of the situation. I don’t think the Admissions office is in anyway against trans students’ participation in the admissions work that we do. The award given out for best Gold Key guide of the year is named after its first winner, Micah Barrett, and he was a transgender Smith graduate. I read the article that the trans student in question did for the Sophian and he said that it was “insinuated” by the admissions staff that he met with that he could not host a prospie because Smith was concerned about its image as a “girls with pearls” school. But he didn’t elaborate exactly how this was insinuated which leads me to think that this was likely a misunderstanding that got blown out of proportion. Smithies are passionate people, we defend our friends to the end, but sometimes all college students can get carried away before the facts are fully known. But I think it’s their right to act and speak out if they feel they see an injustice being done. And I recognize that I’m looking at this as somewhat of an outsider, not knowing the student in question and having been off campus for a while. </p>

<p>I think the admissions office was basically concerned about having a probably minor female stay with a male student in his room. I think that’s a reasonable and responsible attitude that looks out for the guide, the student, the student’s parents and the school. I’m a supporter of equal rights for all people, including transgender people, but I also like to think I’m using common sense here. </p>

<p>The bigger issue is that the role of transgender students on campus is a complex one, and not a black or white issue. Most trangender students for example, don’t transition until after they enroll at Smith (i.e., they arrive as female and only later decide to make the transition to living openly as a male). By then they’ve made friends, they’re integrated into the community, and it seems to me unjust for Smith to just pitch them out because they’ve decided to start living openly as the person they are. But there is the question of how to find a place for men at a school for women. And another issue, if we can be open to female to male transgender students, why do we remain closed to male to female transgender students?</p>

<p>For now, the school’s policy seems to be that they admit anyone who is legally female, we graduate anyone who meets the requirements of the college. But as this discussion continues, we’ll likely see more challenges and more stringent discussion as Smith seeks to define the role it will play in this. I think that’s proper, and fair, and right.</p>

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<p>A few words on Sexhibition

  1. It is student run. The college does not run it
  2. If you are offended by nude photos, NO ONE WILL MAKE YOU GO. In fact, there are a million warning signs to make sure you cannot possibly stumble upon any nude photos. It is only for people who want to go
  3. I view nudity as art. 70% of Sexhibition was tastefully nude and the rest was suggestive. It was beautiful and allowed girls of ALL shapes and sizes and looks to be comfortable with themselves in an amazing way. I didn’t participate this year, but will next year because I love how empowering such a thing is.</p>

<p>It is things like this that make me and most Smithies love Smith. We also love how close we are with our friends, our comfort in discussing our lives, and our comfort in being ourselves. I’m a practicing Catholic in a relationship with a girl and no one blinks an eye. If you find this environment appalling then don’t come back. But to bash the school as a whole is missing the point</p>

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<p>My D was a little put off by the sexual braggadocio of her overnight host in '08. Host was a freshman, but younger than my D. </p>

<p>She loved the college town, though.</p>

<p>Transgender issue is interesting. I am left wondering how it fits with the reason women choose same sex schools in the first place.</p>

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<p>Thanks smithieandproud and carolynb, two interesting perspectives on the issue of befriending boys. And on the other issue, of transgendered students–I think this is at the forefront of something we’ll be defining in our culture in general. I think it’s even more murky when you are dealing with a school that won’t let men apply, but lets them graduate. I think it’s a sticky topic, and definitely worthy of the kind of deep thinking the young woman I spoke to was giving it, especially when the identity–and policies-- of a school are tied to gender. </p>

<p>I didn’t see reflect badly on the students–on the contrary, their response seemed intelligent and mature beyond their years.</p>

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<p>I agree, I think as more and more transgender people become open (and at younger ages), society as a whole is going to be grappling with how do we handle the world beyond the “gender binary” (to borrow an oft-used Smith expression, along with hetero-normative, such-and-such thing is a social construct, and “I feel…”).</p>

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<p>Smith is not for everyone. I don’t think a single person would disagree with that. But Harvard and University of Chicago and UCSD aren’t for everyone, either. </p>

<p>Because Smith attracts and educates intelligent, ambitious, creative women, you have to expect a range of lifestyles and beliefs and a large degree of open-mindedness. And college students are often in-your-face because of their newfound independence from parental control. </p>

<p>I think most parents, especially those paying full tuition, would be shocked at how many college students across the country do not go to class. This is particularly true in large lecture classes at universities, but even in discussion-based courses, if there is not an attendance policy, some students will miss most of their classes. I asked my daughter about this at Smith, and she said that almost every class had full or near-full attendance.</p>

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<p>Just for clarification’s sake about the recent issue of a trans Gold Key being denied hosting a prospie - </p>

<p>The real issue at hand is that there isn’t a set policy about this sort of thing. The Admissions Office wouldn’t let him host although he had done so in the past after emailing the prospies beforehand and saying that he was trans and could arrange for another host if that made them uncomfortable. The Admissions Office did, however, let several other trans students host prospies for Open Campus, when all Smithies are encouraged to host. When the student in question brought this up, the answer the Office gave him was “Oh, well we can’t be sure about that but we KNOW about you.”
The problem is that since there isn’t a policy set up, Admissions can deal with it on a case-by-case basis behind closed doors. That, more than anything else, is what is causing the uproar.</p>

<p>-</p>

<p>I, too, suspected ■■■■■ from someone whose only posts are essentially bashing Smith. But I think that a milder form of the exaggerated feelings the OP expressed are felt by some more conservative applicants and their families, and so I think that addressing some of the concerns can be valid for others reading this thread.</p>

<p>That being said, the presence of queer people on this campus has been stated and debated on CC enough times that I think we ought to let this particular concern die down. If you are really uncomfortable (not just unexposed) with queer people and relationships, Smith is probably not the place for you. If the problem is that your family is not comfortable with LGBT folks being open about themselves, then that’s not really a problem, IMO. You don’t have to talk about it when you’re at home (I surely don’t).</p>

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<p>Umm, I think Roth stepped down as president this semester, actually, due to personal conflicts with his vice-president. But he still has the considerable respect of the student body and of his class.</p>

<p>@S&P: The squirrels seem to have given up the projectiles, thankfully! Unfortunately, they’re no less ferocious and vocal about their displeasure and their territory.</p>

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<p>Why isn’t there a Squirrel Day? Maybe that would appease the crazy rodents.</p>

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<p>There where "thug life " squirrels in the UCLA Botanical gardens too!</p>

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<p>It’s interesting that you mention that, mini. I was just thinking how most of the transgender students I remember from Smith were people in leadership roles. In fact, considering their relatively small numbers, many of them were in highly visible leadership positions as house presidents, class presidents, Gold Key of the year, even one SGA president.</p>

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<p>@MWFN – We cannot give in to the rodent terrorization of the student population. Appeasement is a dangerous and slippery slope!</p>

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<p>How can an art exhib (even one with - - clutch the pearls - - nudes) compare to paying Snookie $35K for a Q&A with students ?!?</p>

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<p>Yeah, Smith would never do that. The just have students PAY $35k for the privilege of a Q & A with the professors. :-)</p>

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<p>Rodents terrorizing and forcing away possible newbies who are different from themselves so that more rodents of the same ilk can replace them from the waitlist. Sounds territorial and highly strategic to me. Surprisingly, I guess I agree with my primary attacker, SmithandProud, on that one. Smith, the college of diversity. Let’s sample some post quotes above: “***don’t come back”; “■■■■■”; and I am thorougly “contemptible.” Thanks for your rational discourse. Replies have been aggressively strident about defending pervasive lesbianism on campus, but have not focused on academic concerns raised in my ealier posts. The message should be that you need to make sure Smith is a “fit.” One Smith student made a comment to my daughter that she was too innocent, leaving the suggestion that to be a Smith student, one must first have deep hands on worldly experience. Other students gave direct and indirect warnings about Smith. Although this forum is replete with a few loud and strident Smith supporters, one may wonder if a silent majority lurks in the black shadows on the sidelines afraid to express an opinion for fear of being attacked by loyal Smith alternative lifestyle advocates.</p>

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<p>Um, I think I addressed some of the academic concerns.</p>

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<p>That you did, Momwaitingfornew. I guess that wasn’t enough…? <em>scratches head</em></p>

<p>Okay, then, let’s talk academics some more.</p>

<p>Smith has some lecture courses and a lot of discussion-focused courses. I took four classes and a lab this semester and four classes and a lab last semester. Of these, the only one that came close to lacking discourse was my computer science class. The teacher did most of the talking when presenting new material but still expected–and received–input from the students on various questions. We had to think about queries he posed us, respond, and defend our answers. We were, in turn, free to respectfully challenge him about his answers, and several students did. So maybe it wasn’t a lively back in forth debate, but it was not a one-sided class, either.</p>

<p>Likewise, I have another science class this semester that is primarily a lecture. However, we also do a fair bit of discussion and we are free to ask questions at any time. There’s a professional, yet also friendly, relationship that exists between the professor and the students, and we do tend to tease him a lot about his lack of art skills. He often poses questions to us and asks us how we’d go about finding the answer; conferences with neighbors in the classroom are also commonplace.</p>

<p>The above holds true for my math classes, as well.</p>

<p>Getting away from quantitative studies, let’s go to humanities. Last semester, I was in Reacting to the Past, which is a class consisting of two or three games inspired by history. My first one was about the French Revolution; the second focused on the English Reformation. The professor led the first few classes of each game while we were reading primary sources from those time periods and grappling with major themes, but we were on our own after that. It was one of the most incredible classes I have ever taken. The other students and I were always up for cross-table debate, accusations of heresy, and philosophical discussions on what makes the best government. We were engaged and really envisioning the issues from the perspectives of those who lived them. No one hid behind a laptop and Facebooked here, I promise you.</p>

<p>I have an intro to American Studies class this semester that holds lectures in one large room and then splits up into sections. Once again, in discussions there is a lot of back and forth between students and between the professor and the students. I have often left that class thinking about the world around me in an entirely new way. I can be more specific if you’d like, but I think that says enough right there.</p>

<p>By the way, my history class is entirely discussion-based. There have been zero lectures. The discussion has always been more than enough to keep the class going–usually, we run out of time before we’ve exhausted what we have to say on imperialism, changes in the labor force, or transitions in American popular culture. The professor mediates but never talks at us. </p>

<p>I’ve taken 33 credits here. I think that’s a fair sample of what Smith classes are like. What your daughter experienced is the exception, not the norm. You will find the occasional student tuning out the class in any university, college, technical institute, or service academy. But you will rarely find students as enthusiastic as Smith students almost universally are.</p>