The discrimination in this country is against blacks and hispanics. Asians and whites have roughly similar scores yet asians get into the ivies at much higher rates. Why is that??? I have asked repeatedly if anyone believes that asians are genetically superior to blacks or hispanics. No one has said yes. If the answer is no what are we doing to help blacks and hispanics to get into elite colleges for which they are genetically qualified. That should be the focus of this discussion. Black families make half of what asian families make Black families tend to be less educated How come most of the posters in this discussion seem to forget or ignore those facts
Texasmomof3, in your mind, what is the difference between a stereotype and a cultural norm that really does describe the behavior of substantial numbers of some group? For example, is it a stereotype to say that Asian applicants who are applicants to selective schools are much more likely to play the violin than are white applicants to those schools?
Harvard has very few Amish students. Is that because Harvard is stereotyping them? Or to rephrase that, can you explain why there are very few Amish students at Harvard without stereotyping the Amish?
@florida26, maybe because the topic of this thread was about Asian student college admissions. if you want a thread about helping black and Hispanic students, maybe start a thread about that?
But, it’s equally naive to assume that “stereotypes aren’t used against” others, as well.
To a great degree, what we all have to face is the Law of Supply and Demand. If there’s too much demand for a particular type of school, find an alternative. As long as everybody clamors for the same 10 or 20 or 50 schools, those schools have all the control.
Your son sounds very wise, @Texasmomof3!
@Hunt, that fact that you describe a culture norm as a “problem” is what I take issue with.
The number of people in this thread who use “they” to describe definitively what’s normal behavior among people of various races and ethnicities is…interesting.
“I have asked repeatedly if anyone believes that asians are genetically superior to blacks or hispanics. No one has said yes. If the answer is no what are we doing to help blacks and hispanics to get into elite colleges for which they are genetically qualified.”
No one race is genetically superior. I think a few people have made that quite clear. I don’t really think genetics should play a card in any of this. This thread is about Asian Americans possibly having a messed up deck of cards because of the stereotype of their parents pushing them to do things they don’t want to do (violin, prep classes, STEM fields etc)
The elites look to see if a person is academically and characteristically qualified. By characteristic, I mean actual character not physical characteristic. Is this the type of person who can contribute to their campus? No college wants a robot with stats and the reason that Asians could be possibly discriminated against is because the stereotype still rules that their parents are trying to create robots with stats so their kids can get to Harvard (Yale isn’t good enough).
No other race imo has this stereotype. When you think of a white kid, what career goals and EC’s first come to your mind? When you think of any other race besides Asian, what career goals and EC’s come to mind?
@Hunt No Amish kid would go to Harvard. Firstly, because of the highly liberal environment there. Secondly, because most Amish kids go to work in the family business or mission work.
Well, it can be a problem in the sense that it conflicts with some goal that you have. I’ll give a very specific example. If you think it’s important for your child to spend 3 or 4 hours a day practicing a musical instrument, even though your child does not have the talent to be a really top performer on that instrument, this will not be helpful if your goal is admission to Harvard for that child. In fact, it will probably hurt, because she will have to forego other extracurriculars in which she might excel. Now, is this idea of the importance of practicing a musical instrument intensely a cultural norm among Asian families? My observations tell me that it is–indeed, it is one of the things that Amy Chua emphasized. Is it a “problem?” Not as long as you understand the implications, and still think it’s important.
There was the Hout report at Berkeley. Obviously, it is only relevant to Berkeley, not any other college.
However, the Berkeley holistic review process was designed for consistency and repeatability, and uses fewer factors (e.g. no recommendations), which is probably quite unlike the holistic review process at many other highly selective colleges, so it is probably easier to analyze than a process where repeating the process could result in an entirely different admission class.
With holistic admissions, here will be an impasse in arguments between:
a. Those who say that bias against Asian applicants cannot be proved without seeing all of the applications.
b. Those who say that the opaque holistic process easily hides and (conscious or unconscious) bias against Asian applicants.
How dare you stereotype the Amish in this way? I’m kidding you, sort of, but to make a point.
I get your point lol but the Amish can’t really be put in this example because they’re not a race.
To switch it up a little bit, do you think that Asian Americans who have been adopted (in most cases but not all) by white families receive the same “alleged discrimination” by colleges?
The above request is appropriate.