For rising seniors...

Colleges & Universities A-Z Princeton University
21

<p>When I see statistics misused or distorted, creating a potentially false impression, as happened in the original post in this thread, I will not hesitate to set the record straight.</p>

<p>I think it is absurd to huff that the recitation of accurate and relevant statistical numbers on a website devoted to college admissions matters, where new posters frequently arrive who are unaware of these numbers, is somehow "rude" - as if this were a Princeton "house of worship" where apostates are shushed up and hustled out the door lest they disturb innocent children!</p>

<p>I have no interest in lobbying any applicants to attend school x vs school y, and you will never see me doing so. Princeton is a fine school and I have never tried to dissuade anyone from attending it.</p>

22

<p>first of all byerly, none of the information alumother posted was incorrect. "potentially false impression", right. harvard AS YOU SHOULD KNOW has a MUCH great alumni body than princeton. by looking at "per student endowment" you get a better picture.</p>

<p>the person who is putting down incorrect information is you. "a record 14 titles." according to sports illustrated, princeton won a record "21 titles in 2000" (record for single most ivy league titles in 1 season), a record 38 titles between the 1998 and 1999 seasons (record for most ivy league titles in 2 consecutive seasons).</p>

23

<p>Your second paragraph is incorrect, and I challengre you to provide a supporting link. 14 league championships in one season is the Ivy record.</p>

24

<p>As the OP, I can categorically state that I was not misusing statistics to create a potentially false impression. The statistics point to the fact that Princeton has the largest per student endowment in the country, and the most loyal alumni population. The people who attended Princeton are wildly loyal. The students there have access to the most resources per capita. As you have been known to say, my original post said no more, no less.</p>

<p>And, now that I read your edits, sorry, but I do think it's rude. It's not rude to bring statistics if someone asks the question, but it is rude if a different discussion is underway and someone interrupts to make a point that only they are interested in.</p>

<p>It's like the guy who is always talking too loud at the party.</p>

25

<p>Of course there are also those who think it their role to tell everyone else what they can and cannot say - as ayatollah, so to speak.</p>

26

<p>"As they entered the Grand Finals of their respective races Sunday, Harvard's men's heavyweight and men's lightweight crews found themselves not only in position to gain supremacy in the Eastern rowing circles, but with a chance to make Harvard history as well.</p>

<p>And after the lightweights emerged first in a photo finish, and the Crimson heavyweights followed with a narrow victory, history was indeed made. (Ed. the heavyweight crew later won its 3rd consecutive national championship).</p>

<p>The championships in men's lightweight rowing and men's heavyweight rowing gave Harvard its 13th and 14th Ivy League titles of the 2004-05 academic year. By comparison, in the 49-year formal history of the Ivy League, only once had one school taken home 14 championships (Princeton in 1999-2000).</p>

<p>For its part, Harvard's previous best haul of Ivy trophies had been 12, which had been accomplished twice. The Crimson first won 12 championships in 1982-83 and duplicated the feat in 1988-89.</p>

<p>The list of champions in 2004-05 is as impressive in its breadth as its number. Seven men's teams and seven women's teams won Ivy championships. Three titles came in the fall, seven in the winter and four in the spring. The champions included perennial winners (men's squash won its 37th title) and first-time titlists (women's volleyball and women's fencing won their first championships). Six teams went undefeated in regular season league play.</p>

<p>"We're so proud of the hard work of our student-athletes and our coaches who have made this year so memorable," said Nichols Family Director of Athletics Bob Scalise.</p>

<p>Harvard's teams amassed a combined record of 122-48-3 against Ivy League opponents (71.4 percent). Cornell was second in the league with eight championships while Princeton was third with five. Columbia, Yale and Dartmouth won three titles each while Penn had two and Brown one.</p>

<p>Harvard's accomplishments in 2004-05 go beyond the Ivy championship picture, however. Teams that compete outside the Ivy League umbrella enjoyed banner years as well, as women's sailing captured the New England (and nastional) championship and men's volleyball won an EIVA division title." </p>

<p><a href="http://gocrimson.collegesports.com/genrel/051605aaa.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://gocrimson.collegesports.com/genrel/051605aaa.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

27

<p>Doyenne, ayatollah, fighting with Byerly is fun because he attributes such powers to the opponent. Shrek, buddy, I can't help you with the athletics stuff. Call in airstrikes from someone. Failing that, misdirect and attack in another spot. Failing that, go outside, it's beautiful here in CA today. How's Arizona?</p>

28

<p>Neither the reproofs of the doyenne nor the dark mutterings of the self-appointed mullahs are sufficient to silence me - so to that extent, their exclusive jurisdictional claims availeth them not!</p>

<p>Here's more on the Ivy Championship situation. I'm waiting for Shreck to disprove the sources I cite, including the following:</p>

<p>Published on Monday, May 23, 2005
Brains and Brawn</p>

<p>By THE CRIMSON STAFF</p>

<p>"Rejoice! As we approach Commencement, we celebrate our warriors in Crimson garb. The Department of Harvard Athletics (XXXXL) will have a record-tying 14 new trophies to polish on its mantle after the most successful season in fair Harvard’s history. With their victory over Princeton, ironically the school which previously held sole claim to the record for Ivy League championships, the men’s heavyweight crew team placed an exclamation point on a memorable season which saw seven men’s and seven women’s sports claim titles in their respective leagues."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=507816%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=507816&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

29

<p>The OP wanted to discuss what Princeton facts rising seniors might want to remember as they looked at their college application plans. If we remember, the OP (oh yeah that's me) wanted to mention that Princeton has the highest endowment per capita of any university in the country and the most loyal alumni in both giving rates and reunion attendance. So just reiterating that salient fact. After all, if something could influence an ED/EA prospect, why not repeat it? Right Mr. B?</p>

30

<p>the first is from sports illustrated special edition on college sports fall of 2001</p>

<p>second is from time magazine, using sports illustrated's rankings special 2000 edition on college sports rankings when princeton was ranked 8th in the nation.</p>

<p>sorry i had to travel home from work. but also unlike you i dont surf around on the web trying to pick out information and then leave stuff out that will only benefit my plan. i subscribe to legitimate magazines and if u have the 2001 and 2000 editions then feel free to look them up.</p>

<p>it really does not matter to me whether you agree or not. your opinion matters very little, as so many on this board have kindly pointed out, your posts are mostly biased. no one on the princeton board really cares how great harvard is. if we wanted to know a lot about harvard we would go to the harvard board.</p>

31

<p>When I assert facts, I invariably back them up with supporting links. I have done so in this instance. </p>

<p>Your memory of what you think you saw in a magazine 5 years ago may just be playing tricks on you.</p>

32

<p>. </p>

<p>In the year 2000, Princeton had 14 titles, not 21 as you claimed earlier.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2000/05/26/sports/1032.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2000/05/26/sports/1032.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

33

<p>Harvard: $540 million
Stanford: $524 million
Cornell: $386 million
Penn: $333 million
USC: $322 million
Columbia: $290 million
MIT: $289 million
Yale: $265 million
Duke: $255 million
NYU: $214 million
Notre Dame: $171 million
Chicago: $157 million
Northwestern: $135 million
Princeton: $125 million
WUStL: $121 million
Dartmouth: $117 million
CalTech: $102 million
Georgetown: $101 million
Brown: $94 million</p>

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<p>Harvard: $540 million</p>

<p>Stanford: $524 million</p>

<p>Cornell: $386 million</p>

<p>Penn: $333 million</p>

<p>USC: $322 million</p>

<p>JHU: $312 million</p>

<p>Columbia: $290 million</p>

<p>MIT: $289 million</p>

<p>Yale: $265 million</p>

<p>Duke: $255 million</p>

<p>NYU: $214 million</p>

<p>Notre Dame: $171 million</p>

<p>Chicago: $157 million</p>

<p>Northwestern: $135 million</p>

<p>Emory: $135 million</p>

<p>Princeton: $125 million</p>

<p>Vanderbilt: $122 million</p>

<p>WUStL: $121 million</p>

<p>Dartmouth: $117 million</p>

<p>Univ. of Miami: $109 million</p>

<p>Georgetown: $105 million</p>

<p>CalTech: $102 million</p>

<p>Brown: $94 million</p>

35

<p>Per capita?</p>

36

<p>we dont throw away magainzes byerly lol. if u would like to know we have every issue of time magazine in our library since 1992.</p>

<p>but anyways, we also separate all college-related issues into a different section.</p>

<p>alumother - byerly doesnt care for per capita since it doesnt show harvard at number 1</p>

37

<p>I have to agree with Byerly on that point though. Per Capita is not that imporant and the fact that Harvard's endowment is double the size of any peer institution is a far more significant fact.</p>

<p>When a college spends money it is going to create benefits for a variety of students, each of whom is going to derive a specific utitlity. This utility is not shared between students so per capita is relatively insignificant and it is the raw spending capacity of the university that counts. </p>

<p>If library's were all that colleges could spend on, then Harvard would be able to build the biggest and best library, since it has the most money to spend, compared to a peer institution such as Princeton. Therefore, Harvard students would benefit most because they have a better library to use. </p>

<p>Regarding per capita data, Luxembourg's GDP per capita was the highest of any country in 2003 and San Marino and Aruba had higher GDP per capita than Japan, Finland and Sweden (country's which regularly come out on top in standard of living surveys). How significant is the data in this instance?</p>

<p>Lastly, whilst Princeton's Endowment per capita might be higher than Harvard's, it is worth noting that Harvard's is only $200,000 or 14% lower. This, when combined with the size of Harvard's endowment in relation to its competitor's indicates that it has, by far, the greatest financial resources of any university in the world.</p>

38

<p>And "endowment" money isn't needed to suppport the extension school (whose FTE students are included in the total for the whole university, although not for Harvard College) even though they are no drag on it at all. </p>

<p>Without including extension school students in the university count, the Harvard "per capita" figure might well exceed Princeton's.</p>

<p>Extension school students use buildings in the off hours when they would otherwise be empty. The extension school is, in fact, a healthy profit center for Harvard.</p>

39

<p>As I said, Princeton has the highest per capita endowment per student. You can put forth that it doesn't matter, such is your opinion, it doesn't change the facts.</p>

40

<p>Hmm... I thought Rockefeller University had the highest "per capita endowment per student", as you put it. </p>

<p>Lets not "change the facts", eh Mother?</p>