<p>As the title says, why do people choose to apply to really intellectual, challenging schools? I'm talking University of Chicago, Caltech, Reed, etc...the reason I'm asking is because my mom cannot understand why I want to go to Reed, and she asked me why other people choose to go there, or to any school that is known for incredibly difficult academics. I know my reasons - can anyone else tell me why they want to push themselves as undergrads?</p>
<p>Education is a goal in itself, and don't treat undergraduate only as a necessary part of getting into graduate or professional school. You learn how to think and how to learn very well in such schools. Motivation for learning should not come from a desire to get a good grade, but from within: a desire to learn more, to critically analyze, and to communicate well. Such skills will carry a person to success through life. If you don't feel like you have such motivation to learn for the sake of learning, I would advise you not to go to such schools.</p>
<p>Plus, many of the people around you are in those schools for the same reasons. Much of learning comes informally with peers, and such schools contain intellectually stimulating environments. Many people would just be happy there; for them, learning is not a chore, but something highly enjoyable.</p>
<p>To work hard and play hard, not just play hard. I like to have fun, party, etc. But I want myself to deserve it after a hard week, not just do it everyday because I can. So this is why I attend the absolute hardest school I could get into, so that at the end of the week when I'm trying to figure out which party to go to I'll know I actually did something this week to deserve my night of fun.</p>
<p>Of course this can lead to me not going out during certain weekends, but then the next weekend is made just that much sweeter.</p>
<p>You also have to consider that the schools whose curricula are hardest tend to be the top schools with name recognition, which can be a definite plus not only in grad school admission but also in internships, jobs, and other opportunities that schools like Caltech help alumni to gain.</p>
<p>Other reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li>intellectual curiosity ---> desire to be stimulated intellectually more</li>
<li>strength in a given field (strongest tends to be at the difficult schools)</li>
<li>a desire to fit in with others at your own level (big reason for me, as vain as it seems)</li>
<li>x</li>
</ol>
<p>You have the opportunity to learn much more than you would at a more laid back school which just seems like an amazing experience. Personally I would choose one of these schools because everyone at the school is very motivated. I do my best work when I love what I'm doing and when my friends are pushing me. A school like this just seems to be perfect.</p>
<p>My main reason was that I wanted to satisfy my intellectual curiosity...I just don't see that happening at a party school.</p>
<p>...it's boring otherwise. </p>
<p>When I was younger I remember being so bored in all of my classes, and I just got this feeling of superiority that I didn't deserve. Taking difficult (in my case, AP) classes brought me down to earth and really challenged me.</p>
<p>I mean really, if you can do more, why shouldn't you?</p>
<p>Not to mention the practical reason behind all this: getting a good job. Working hard all through high school, getting into a challenging school, continuing to push yourself at that school... well, what more can a boss ask for in an applicant?</p>
<p>Selective schools get more money, have better resouces, offer more opportunities to their students, attract better professors and guest speakers/lecturers... etc.</p>
<p>And yeah, it's extremely gratifying to work alongside people on your level, and also, to have people better than you who can inspire you, push you, and help you along.</p>
<p>This doesn't really answer the question of WHY you want to attend Reed, but it might help her understand how and why the hard work pays off:</p>
<p><a href="http://web.reed.edu/ir/outcomes.html%5B/url%5D">http://web.reed.edu/ir/outcomes.html</a></p>
<p>If you are a really serious academic, it may be significant that Reed graduates the third or fourth (depending on the years counted) highest percentage of future PhD recipients in the country, behind CalTech, Harvey Mudd, and (depending) Swarthmore (<a href="http://web.reed.edu/ir/phdrank.html)%5B/url%5D">http://web.reed.edu/ir/phdrank.html)</a>, a higher percentage than even MIT and U Chicago. Note that none of the Ivys are in the top ten, which are dominated by LACs and other small schools. Note also that this addresses academics, rather than professional outcomes, such as law, medicine and business.</p>
<p>Source: Weighted Baccalaureate Origins Study, Higher Education Data Sharing Consortium, 2006.</p>
<p>The intellectual reward. (Though I think that's already been covered)</p>
<p>If you are going to fork out in the regions of 30+ a year, then the returns need to be equivalent, intellectually, and with a view to the future. Most of the people who apply to these so called 'fire hose' schools are looking forward to the challenge, not dreading it. (Well maybe dreading it to a degree, but also looking forward to it)</p>
<p>I can't speak for others, but for me intellectual rigor was my primary criterion in college search.</p>
<p>Because for most of my life I have been ridiculously bored in most of my classes. If I'm bored, I sorta act out and misbehave and cause problems with people. I also generally feel uncomfortable as well. It's kinda weird. Maybe people here can relate, maybe not. I've been like that all the way through my undergrad which I did here. Thankfully, I got into a 'better' school that has a reputation for being much more intellectually challenging than the University of Toronto, so I'm excited about that!</p>
<p>"dreading it to a degree"</p>
<p>Good one. Some are dreading it all the way to a BA degree. Maybe even beyond.</p>
<p>I wanted a school where students learned not only for grades, but for their own enrichment. I came from a high school where we spent lunch and free periods talking about classroom topics. Four years later, my high school classmates and I make frequent references to our old curricula. I wanted something like that in college b/c I knew that without it, I'd get bored. I was lucky enough to go to a HS where I found out what kind of academic environment I love, so I knew what to look for in a college.</p>
<p>It makes sense that a school full of students who love learning is also full of students who don't mind working hard to do so (and professors who take advantage of such motivation). </p>
<p>I will readily admit that I'm just as scared of burn-out as I am of boredom, but I think that's pretty common, too. It can sometimes be stressful to be in a place where you know that if your love of learning takes some whacky hiatus, you're gonna be in big trouble... :-P</p>
<p>It seems like a love of learning is a big factor here. What do you say when people claim that you can learn just as well anywhere you choose? That's my parents' current argument (in favor of a more affordable state school).
By the way, vossron, nice link - I might need to show some statistics.</p>
<p>you really can get a good edjucation at a state school but there are more factors as well. schools like reed have an extremly high rate of grads going on to get PhDs and other well known, high ranked schools have an alumni record that could aid you in the long run.</p>
<p>"What do you say when people claim that you can learn just as well anywhere you choose?"</p>
<p>I think the difference is between "just as well" and "well enough." Any given student should do better in an environment of like-minded students, compared to being in an environment of lower-achieving students who don't take school quite as seriously. This argument doesn't work if comparing, say, Berkeley and Reed; these two schools are vastly different, but probably about the same as far as seriousness of students goes. Here the better argument would be about class size, individualized instruction quality and better grad-school preparation and outcome of the LAC.</p>
<p>For me, a UChicago student, I wanted Chicago more than any other school in the country, though in retrospect I could have just as easily have wanted Reed.</p>
<p>I felt the defining feature of a school like Chicago is that it literally traps you and it forces you to challenge yourself in your education. For me, this had very little to do with how smart the students are (the other top schools plus state schools are chock full of smart students) and very little to do with the quality of instruction, which is inconsistent from school to school, I think, and even inconsistent within schools. </p>
<p>Instead, I wanted to be part of a community that thought and felt and valued education and challenges the same way I did. Though I went to a top high school, in many ways I felt I was alone-- at times, I was the only person who was interested in the material at hand. At Chicago, I feel finally like I'm with people who get me because they were in similar situations.</p>
<p>amykins I got into Chicago. Question- I do my homework (er, at least before I became a senior), and I'm willing to study and work hard, but I don't want books to be my entire life at Chicago. Is it possible to have a reasonable amount of free time/ a life at Chicago while still doing well? I'm no genius but I consider myself of at least aveage intelligence, above all curious</p>
<p>I do agree that you can learn just as well wherever you go, but also that you might have to put more effort and patience into it at different places. I think it's also worth considering the fact that people learn in different ways, and while the Reed/Chicago/etc. atmosphere is good for some, it's not only unappealing, but perhaps also counterproductive for others.</p>
<p>When I was searching for a school, my desired atmosphere wasn't motivated by thinking that I'd get a superior education over other schools, or by thinking of alumni hook-ups or name advantage--I viewed it as a worthy end unto itself (which is part of how I ended up at a tiny, mostly unheard of LAC over big name-value universities). I just knew that I'd be happier and would feel more at home in a place where I could have the type of intellectual conversations I like to have (and at the same time, a place where I could just as easily talk about anything else and not feel judged). This isn't to say that there aren't other benefits to attending a school where students value learning for its own sake (the idea of deliberately selecting a school of this sort because you think you'll have more helpful alum is ironic...just a funny thought. I know it's not quite what was being suggested), nor is it to say that you can't find equally intelligent, driven, motivated, and curious students at other schools. It was, for me, just another question to ask, another preference to satisfy, right up there with size, location, and nice dorms.</p>
<p>Nowayjose -- Visit, visit, visit. Spend a night. Ask around, ask about specific workloads, and know yourself. Different majors will have different workloads and different people will work in different ways. My freshman year, I went to a school ranked in the top 10 of "Students Never Stop Studying" and I found myself with more free time than I'd EVER had in high school. Some of my friends were in the same boat, others were totally overwhelmed. </p>
<p>Good luck :-)</p>
<p>I've visited, and sat in on classes, but the problem is I haven't sat in on classes at any other college so I have no frame of reference. I will spend the night though in a few weeks.</p>
<p>If I'm not in a class (or school) that is challenging to me, the quality of my work and my education will actually decrease. I know it's a personal failing, but if something isn't a challenge it's almost impossible to make myself do work for it. It's the difference between being an A student at Reed and a C student at Podunk Community College. I guess it's kind've counterintuitive, but, personally, I find that my performance would be far worse at a less challenging school.</p>