<p>By the way, just so you all know,</p>
<p>LIFE DOES NOT BEGIN AT CONCEPTION. PERIOD. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION, IT IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT.</p>
<p>Life is an unbroken chain stretching back to the first single-celled prokaryotic organism. Sperm and egg cells are both alive. When they are fused, they become a new individual, but no new life is created.</p>
<p>We've all heard of the murder of that one marine by her boyfriend. She was pregnant at the time. I believe the sob should be charged twice for the girl herself, and not her fetus, but the fact it was potential life.</p>
<p>Yeah~!</p>
<p>Godsend, touche</p>
<p>However I can destroy you argument by saying:</p>
<p>God goes by a different time. 7 days does not mean 24 hours, 1440 minutes, or 86400 seconds. God isn't limited to our conception of time.</p>
<p>A possible explanation for the Bible stating that God created the world and all that dwells in it in 7 days is: 7 is a number that means complete in Hebrew.</p>
<p>Religion isn't supposed to bring extremism but tolerance and love. Men and women have forgotten that people are supposed to convert out of their own free will by seeing how a believer's life is a happy and better way of life. Extremism exists not just because of religion but the stubborn nature of human beings. The morals and values set in a religious text are there for someone to know the difference between wrong and right. Without rules, there isn't any stability within a society. Extremists are people who are blinded by their arrogance who believe that they're right and because they're right they can judge others to their standards accordingly. It is a flawed ideology.</p>
<p>Think of it this way. Just because you're in love with a girl/boy doesn't mean they have the best personality, intelligence and looks. It just means they are right for you. It does not give that person the right to fight over the matter. But it's possible that they are the hottest. It's just that it cannot be proven unless you see every single person in the world. It's an impossible task.</p>
<p>and for my final point. if God did not exist, where did everything begin? Where did the highly dense matter from the big bang come from? Because of the law of conservation of energy and mass, nothing can be created or destroyed, only rearranged.</p>
<p>That makes no sense just like how the idea of God makes no sense. Both theories have no support. But everyone loves to say they're right so wth. <em>shrug</em></p>
<p>It's possible God goes by a different time. Why didn't he communicate that to others? Why don't religious folk know that? When I argue God, I am usually told the power he holds through how he created the universe. 6 days they tell me, and on the 7th he rested. How great is that? I understand this notion, so when I bring up the fact the time period doesn't make sense, they state his time is different. So which one is it? Contradictory.</p>
<p>It must mean days. For people to comprehend, it must mean days. Keep in mind that the image of God is so great in their minds he's literally dumbed things down for us. So it's impossible for this to occur in the way that you state.</p>
<p>Once again, the fact it means 7 in Hebrew is a bias. Isn't it? I mean Hebrew is no chosen language in anyway or form. We can argue language, which could go on for days. The fact that Abraham, who spoke Hebrew (correct if I am wrong), chose 7 as the number of days God took to complete the universe is the complete definition of bias. Though impossible to tell, did 7 mean complete before or after Judaism?</p>
<p>There are rules without society. It can be brought out about a social contract in a way. I'm taking an ethics class and it seems as if a lot of our theory, morals, and values are based off of a social contract. I didn't like what you did to me, you didn't like what I did to you, so we'll never do it. A lot of our laws reflect this. I don't see laws going out the window if religion is taking out of the picture.</p>
<p>There is a quote that goes something like this: Talking to God is called prayer while God talking to you is called insanity. </p>
<p>Religion calls for tolerance and love? Oh come on. As soon as Europe had a control on religion, they swayed it their way. According to how Palestinians look like, we all know what color Jesus was. Come onnnnnnnnnn! That and the fact he's portrayed as white seems to give off the notion that God is white himself? Oh please. It's bias and racism all over again, but hidden and concealed because we saw it as kids and never thought to question it.</p>
<p>Tolerance for gays? Oh please. The only problem I see with gays is that a majority of them are into hard partying and a lot of them avoid education for some reason. Now I'm not accepting this as the reason to hate them. The same thing could have been said for blacks so many decades ago and and list continues to go on. Abortion? Oh please, come on! You argue whether or not this or that is a life, but the truth is it comes down to free, personal freedom. It was a mistake, and you don't want it. People just want more people to join their religion and let it grow.</p>
<p>That is the point right? To cover your religion, Christianity, Islam, etc., all over the world. That's the point. And you think that they allow for free minded people to find their way to God? Hell. I was born into Sikhism with a religion grandmother who watched over me. When I was about 11 or 12 I was introduced to the notion that God doesn't exist. And it stuck with me. It was on my birthday as well. A great birthday present indeed. All this suffering in the world. All the ********. Girls being molested by their fathers. People being unlucky enough to be born in a disease ridden area where all you have are nuns walking around providing blankets and Virgin Mary's telling them once they die they're going to heaven. Well guess what? People have died on the operating table and they come back with one single thought: nothing happened. It was sleeping without dreaming to be exact. I am sorry, but that is completely it. It's hard to swallow, but you must accept it.</p>
<p>Where did everything begin? In all honesty, there is no beginning, there is no middle, there is no end. There is no time framed the way we want it to be framed. If you ask me, it is just a moment. A single frame that we continue to walk through and about. It's hard for people to conjure up considering we were told as little kids "its time to get to bed" or "time to get up" and things of that nature. But if you ask me, the only reason we have time is to organize things for us. In all honesty, I don't believe the concept of time came too concrete until harvesting and agriculture came around. </p>
<p>The truth is our cells degenerate whether or not the sun comes up tomorrow. The grass doesn't die because its getting old. It dies because its not getting water or sun or something along the lines of that. As for the big bang? There is no time. There is no film. It is just an evolution right before your very eyes. When we watched a caterpillar go into its cocoon and it comes out as a butterfly. We only measure it in times and days. The truth is it just happened. It evolved. Just like us. From small carbon molecules and just coincidences. Sad, huh?</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's possible God goes by a different time. Why didn't he communicate that to others? Why don't religious folk know that? When I argue God, I am usually told the power he holds through how he created the universe. 6 days they tell me, and on the 7th he rested. How great is that? I understand this notion, so when I bring up the fact the time period doesn't make sense, they state his time is different. So which one is it? Contradictory.</p>
<p>It must mean days. For people to comprehend, it must mean days. Keep in mind that the image of God is so great in their minds he's literally dumbed things down for us. So it's impossible for this to occur in the way that you state.</p>
<p>Once again, the fact it means 7 in Hebrew is a bias. Isn't it? I mean Hebrew is no chosen language in anyway or form. We can argue language, which could go on for days. The fact that Abraham, who spoke Hebrew (correct if I am wrong), chose 7 as the number of days God took to complete the universe is the complete definition of bias. Though impossible to tell, did 7 mean complete before or after Judaism?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You know I never looked that up; whether or not 7 meant complete in Hebrew before or after the old testament was found. I'll try to find out. But I'm going to guess it was after the old testament was found. So I guess that part of my argument is useless.</p>
<p>Also, when you ask which conception of time we're supposed to follow, my answer is the one I described. 7 days is completely different to God than it is to us. So why is it called days is your question right, and why do people find it so great that the world was created in 6 days? </p>
<p>Answer is people shouldn't think it's so great. 6 days, c'mon it's God, he (I call God he since God is called the Father in my religious text) could of created the world in a blink of an eye. So seriously, why is 6 days so amazing anyway?</p>
<p>You also stated that our image of God is so great we dumb things down for our sake. This is true but at the same time I have to believe that God knew these questions would come out eventually and because he is who he is, there cannot be a flaw or a contradiction in the bible.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The truth is our cells degenerate whether or not the sun comes up tomorrow
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Time is not the setting or rising of the sun. Time is a concept derived from an end to things. We die. That's an end to life. The sun sets, that's an end to light. Because things end we must have a beginning which brings us time.</p>
<p>If time is only a moment, a single frame that we continue to walk through and about like you say, where do we start our walk? When does that moment recycle?</p>
<p>If there isn't a start then why must things end?</p>
<p>and I can't explain why bad things happen to people for no good reason because I don't have an explanation.</p>
<p>I hope you continue your search for the truth from where your beliefs are now<br>
because I know I will from mine. Then it is inevitable for us to come to the same conclusion.</p>
<p>As I continue to search, I fall back into the same dogma. </p>
<p>As I said, God was created no requirements what so ever. It's a contradiction in itself. I'll make my own little stories, sort of like the religion texts:</p>
<p>I was watching a young child and would play with him. I would make a fist with both my hands and have a quarter or penny in there. Once they were behind me, I'd open the fist and let the penny or quarter drop. I'd close em and ask him to guess and I could tell which way he was coming from. Of course I won every time until he wrote down which one he was going to choose, right or left before he said it. Then he said instead of showing me, tell me which one. Of course I had a 50/50, so I said left. He flipped the piece of paper over to show me had written down his name. I should have known, right?</p>
<p>The part in that scenario is that God can't talk back. He has talked to people, Abraham, Mary, Muhammad, Adam and Even...the list goes on. Yet, he never talks to us. If he does, it's insanity. If he does talk to us, he has us kill everyone at the mall. Or its through our dog. </p>
<p>Watson said that you can take any child and raise him to be whatever you want him to be. This is the truth for a lot of religion. Children are not given the freedom to choose or to decide in way or form. Religion is sort of like genetics. You go around convincing people yours is true too with some words of enlightenment. You promise people false hope that has no credibility, and wa-lah? Oh come on. Mother Theresa had doubts about God for 50 years. I'm sure Pope John II did as well. The fact you can doubt what is considered an absolute certainty is...pathetic.</p>
<p>But the fact you can doubt a story to control and appeal is pure bliss. Our nation was created by deists, who I truly assume to be atheists, is an example how thoughts and concepts away from God are the most beautiful thoughts and perceptions, ever.</p>
<p>Time is a tool of measurement. In science it is a similar tool as well. It is a single frame and if there is a walk, there has always been a walk. Sort of like your argument that there always has been a God and no one created him.</p>
<p>Why must things end? That's more definitional than it is anything. I think the world evolution helps me with this point. Not the theory of evolution, but the example of caterpillar turned butterfly. It just happens, and as that butterfly mates and lays eggs or whatever the cycle is (never looked up whether the caterpillars mate and lay eggs or its the butterflys), it continues. I think the only thing that ends is life...and that's because our body's can no longer bear the strain of degenerating cells and weak organs. This is exemplified in every living organism that comes to mind. I do believe people can live up to be well past hundreds and hundreds of years old. This is based more on science, of course.</p>
<p>The same conclusion, if you ask me, is death. </p>
<p>I am a vegetarian. Recently became one. I believe no animal on earth should be subjected to cultivation when other means are available. Absolutely no reason. My 8 year old cousin, who I've been told without any interference, came to this conclusion on his own. I personally believe through a vegetarian lifestyle, we can achieve anything. So simple...and so green, huh? Seems even worst than the idea of religion at times to me, but it pieces together so perfectly.</p>
<p>A greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated - Mahatma Gandhi</p>
<p>i am pro-life and do not believe in god. well, im kinda pro-life. like 60/40 pro-life.</p>
<p>The right to choose is not the right to kill. Life begins at conception. I am not religious.</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who used to believe heavily in everything I was taught in church until I educated myself and learned that this God figure isn't exactly what I had previously thought him to be. </p>
<p>I suggest people read up on the Maya, the Jews (the real ones; not the ones that claim the heritage today), and really study the Old Testament from a different perspective. </p>
<p>While I didn't believe having this innate ability to know exactly what God wants or let alone contact with him was a bit crazy back then, I can't help but laugh at it now. </p>
<p>But I digress, and that bit was meant only for those who want to pull their heads out of their asses coming from someone who had his head as far up his ass as the best of 'em. </p>
<p>I'm pro-choice because it is a Constitutional right as far as I'm concerned, but I personally don't condone abortion.</p>
<p>Here's my two pennies.</p>
<p>Pro-choice people are pro-choice because they would like a choice if it ever happened to them</p>
<p>Pro-life people are pro-life because they don't ever see it happening to them.</p>
<p>Pro-lifers don't always belive that way cos they think god puts every life for a reason. I personally am pro-life but i do not at all believe in god.
Also when somebody kills a pregnent woman then why is counted as killing both the woman and baby and then its not called murder when you abort a baby?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Pro-choice people are pro-choice because they would like a choice if it ever happened to them</p>
<p>Pro-life people are pro-life because they don't ever see it happening to them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>no, i don't think so. i am pro-choice even though i am fairly sure this will never happen to me. ahhh, the birth control pill is a wonderful invention. even if i made some kind of mistake with it or something, there is emergency contraception.</p>
<p>No jaso9n2, most pro-choice people are pro-choice because they philosophically do not believe in infringing on others' liberty to choose with respect to their own body, and most pro-life people are pro-life because they see abortion as the murder of a living creature.</p>
<p>Life certainly does not begin at conception, though - before a primitive streak forms (at 14 days) you cannot tell how many individuals will result from a pregnancy. So it is impossible to discern the number of people an embryo will become. So there is no person, and therefore there is no ethical problem with terminating the early-stage life (if you can call it life). The earliest one could say that an embryo is alive is at primitive streak formation. I'd still disagree about it, but that's the earliest place you could say it begins.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also when somebody kills a pregnent woman then why is counted as killing both the woman and baby and then its not called murder when you abort a baby?
[/quote]
It is not always done so. Some individual states have passed laws making it this way, but it is not universal. Further, these laws have come under condemnation because if killing a fetus in utero is a crime then women who suffer from miscarriages are guilty of manslaughter.</p>
<p>Jarn, that's a bit too...illogical in a sense. I mean miscarriages are unfortunate. I personally believe that if someone kills a pregnant would, it should be a double charge in regards to murder. Why? Potential life. Not life, but potential life. POTENTIAL LIFE THAT WAS WANTED. Miscarriages are a whole different nature.</p>
<p>most people i know who are pro-life say they are pro-life.....except when asked if they are raped or something that will probably never happen to them, they say they will abort because of the rape....hm...</p>
<p>Plan B ftw 8)</p>
<p>^?..........</p>
<p>plan b is emergency contraception, sugar.</p>
<p>mhm...and?</p>