Fordham or McGill? And, better to be well-rounded or "spiky"?

College Search & Selection
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<p>S spent several days looking at his two choices that were far from home and so very different from the norm. Fordham was one of his choices that was close to home, and though it was a top choice, he did not spend as much time there as it was something more familiar. I suggest you spend a few days at McGill and assess whether this is an environment you like. It is a popular destination for kids here, but there have been kids who have not liked it because it was not what they had in mind for a college experience. It’s a wonderful, wonderful school for those who like that atmosphere. But is is very different from the more typical college experience that a school like Fordham can provide.</p>

<p>Fordham is unique in that it can give you NYC access while it has a traditional campus. If you like the city scene better, it is possible to transfer to the city (LC) campus. I know some kids who have done so. </p>

<p>You may get some merit money for Fordham. Hard to say. The cost without aid is tremedously high, over $50K and that can be an issue. When you have all of your options, go down and list the pros and cons of each. Cost can be a deal breaker.</p>

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<p>Prestige is a highly overrated commodity. Its often erroneous as well. To suggest that McGill is a no brainer decision over Fordham is just someone who doesnt know or understand Fordham and its POWERFUL name in the northeast, or someone who attends McGill just bragging on it. </p>

<p>I dont do school bashings. Period. Its unprofessional and sophomoric. McGill is a fine school. But going to college in Canada is very, very different from going to school in the United States. Period. </p>

<p>I dont live in New York and I can tell you that Fordham’s name where I live is as meaningful, if not more meaningful, than McGill. </p>

<p>Kids are often highly influenced by the “prestige factor”. I think “fit” is more important. And money can be part of that equation.</p>

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<p>So prestige is highly overrated yet Forham’s name is POWERFUL?</p>

<p>So McGill is overrated because of its prestige? And Fordham’s POWER is its name/prestige?
hhmmmmmmm
</p>

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<p>I would say McGill is preferable if you are interested in research and eventually getting a PhD. Fordham is preferable if you are more interested in a preprofessional education. Starbright’s views are those of academia, not employers. Fordham has strong connections in NYC and the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic for jobs and internships. It has a more personal and traditional social atmosphere. Finances may make your decision for you. If you can’t afford Fordham without aid then McGill, with it’s fine academic reputation, is your answer.</p>

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<p>Twix: by “prestige” you know what I mean. I mean that ubiquitous USNWR ranking or similar ranking. By “powerful name” I mean respect for the school academically, its graduates for their work ethic and personal ethics, and the ability of those graduates to get jobs as measured by the number of companies who recruit on campus and the huge alumni network in the working world. </p>

<p>Again, I dont do school bashings and that includes McGill. But I also reject silly comments about McGill being a no brainer superior choice. School pride no matter where one attends (or graduated from) is normal. But not at the expense of “my school is better than yours
so nyah nyah nyah.” Pride should be measured with humility and dignity. </p>

<p>My initial comments which spawned some of the discussion on this thread, when I questioned why Americans would go north of the border to attend college when there are so many fabulous schools “back home” was perhaps misunderstood as a slap at McGill. Not so. I fully acknowledge that McGill is a fine school with a great reputation. Its a LARGE PUBLIC university, and to that extent its apples and oranges in comparison to an expensive private school like Fordham (or NYU or Columbia or Barnard or Sarah Lawrence or other privates in NYC). </p>

<p>Students can and SHOULD pick schools on what works best for them, what interests them, and how much they can afford. But before they get all excited about the “novelty” of going to college in Canada, I was simply making the point they need to consider all the factors in that. The college/university experience in the United States is much, much different than any other country in the world. There are bookshelves full of books describing this in every library and bookstore known to man. That was my primary point. </p>

<p>And yes, I am very defensive (protective) of Fordham. It has been one of the best kept secrets for New York colleges for decades
even in the darkest days when the Bronx was in real trouble. (A graduate of Fordham College from those dark days made it really big in the investment world just donated another 5 million to Fordham to build more dorms on campus.) If Fordham is not for you, the OP, or anyone
fine. All we can do is make it known and help people to learn more about it. If the OP picks McGill, fine. Its a personal decision for him/her. </p>

<p>Fordham is not known as a school that has “an attitude” or is full of hubris drenched people, though its alumni ranks are full of famous celebrities and high government officials, and they film movies on its beautiful campus frequently (including last week with Michael Douglas and Susan Sarandon). (Sorry, had to put that pitch in here). Its a school that graduates well rounded citizens/people who are hard working, with strong personal ethics, a can do attitude and eager to serve others. It is a special place in my opinion. Yes, I am biased. But that pride is also measured with humility and dignity, I hope. </p>

<p>I hope this clarifies my position and removes any misunderstanding you or anyone else has about my comments and Fordham University.</p>

<p>Best of luck to the OP in the admissions process.</p>

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<p>I have to chime in and say, if you want to work in NY/NJ (Tristate area), you probably won’t get any kudos for going to McGill–I don’t think you should go there if you think it is more “prestigious”. However, the name “Fordham” is more known because many alums live in the area. I visited both campuses and they are very different. McGill’s feel is more similar to Fordham Lincoln Center, being centrally located in the city. The Rose Hill campus on the other hand is the traditional college campus.</p>

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<p>College Yahoo: In general, the NYC Tri-State area doesn’t have much respect for state universities. McGill is a state university, even though it is functionally quite different from US state universities. Do you think they view McGill as unprestigious because it’s a state university?</p>

<p>Many people are at McGill because they can only afford in-state universities, while international tuition at McGill is comparable to in-state tuition at the more expensive US universities. If the real problem is disrespect for state schools, would choosing McGill over one’s in-state university be a wash at worst?</p>

<p>In the NYC Tri-State area, there seems to be respect for at least the best state universities. Do you think this includes McGill? More generally, which state universities are respected in and around NYC?</p>

<p>I’m seriously considering McGill for future study and am interested in hearing opposing viewpoints.</p>

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<p>As for the state universities most respected in the Tristate area, you would have the usual suspects: Berkeley, Michigan and UVA. It seems at one point, Binghamton was more respected than it is today–Stony Brook seems to be the hot SUNY school these days. Rutgers seems to have an okay reputation. Because there are so many strong and prestigious privates in the area, the local state schools tend to be outshined. I think state schools generally get a bum rap!
As for McGill, I just think most people in general are not familiar with the school, despite its strong reputation academically. If you are considering grad school, then I think it could be a good option.</p>

<p>In terms of getting a job, I think the Fordham connections might be easier to tap into, given the greater numbers of alumni in the area. OTOH, alumni from McGill in the area might be more loyal given the lower numbers of fellow grads.</p>

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<p>How well is Wisconsin respected in the Tri-State area? It’s often included in the “usual suspects” of state schools which are considered strong. (Wisconsin is one of the schools I’m considering, hence the question.)</p>

<p>Is SUNY Binghamton well respected in the Tri-State area? (I may use Binghamton as a financial safety. But if it’s not respected in one of the cities where I want to be able to work, that’s a huge drawback.)</p>

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<p>To answer your question more generically, take3. I take your question as a genuine attempt to analyze the cost and benefits of attending a flagship state university (or McGill) in comparison to the obviously high cost of attending a private school, such as Fordham. Your question is very important and valid. However, I am not sure you can get a straight and clear answer. People all have biases either for their alma mater or for the public/private point of view. Its almost like asking someone to compare an apple to an orange and which is better? It all depends on which you prefer. I am not trying to be glib. It just is what it is. And in the end, you have to determine that yourself. </p>

<p>However, seeking information on the relative respect for flagship publics in the metro NYC area (tri-state), would likely fall closely with the relative USNWR ranking, and also depending on the area of study. Is it Finance or Accounting or MBA’s or Fine Arts or Liberal Arts or Math/Science? It could make a difference. BUT
the main top flagships as exemplified in the USNWR ranking of PUBLIC schools (a narrower version of their national rankings) would all be relatively equally respected if you are targeting law schools or graduate schools. You wont find many University of Oregon or University of Washington or University of California at Los Angeles or University of Wisconsin graduates in New York, it seems to me. Or at least a lot fewer than Eastern Flagships. </p>

<p>I was sitting in Seville Spain (ironically on March 11, the day of the Madrid bombing) at a cafe one bright March morning, sipping my cafe and reading the International Herald Tribune with my spouse and next to me at a table were 4 students from UNC-Chapel Hill. We chuckled as these bright kids were “being oh so international” and having a good time. We didnt burst their bubble. But you can go anywhere in the world and be from a flagship college and be recognized. </p>

<p>So it comes down to your personal preferences and your own financial state of affairs and some of the “intangibles” (such as a Jesuit education versus incredible football and basketball teams at the flagships or fraternity life at the flagships etc.)</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Starbright, I am curious as to what motivated you to teach in Canada? With a U.S. Ivy League education why not settle in the U.S. City of your choice? Yes, in my opinion, Canadian cities whip most of the U.S ones. All the same benefits but lower cost of living, a lot safer and multiculturalism in Canadian cities doesn’t mean visible minorities are relegated to ghettos.</p>

<p>Also, a note on U of T having 58,000 undergraduates. It’s actually just over 50,000. Keep in mind that upwards of 20,000 of those students are on the suburban campus. Students on the main campus would never see them generally. Scarborough has 10,000 of those students going by 2006 enrolment and Mississauga has 10500, according to their fact sheet. And many of these are part timers, I believe. </p>

<p>Btw, what I remember most from Fordham students when I went to Columbia, was how hard they partied! Damn. They overran Belmont. But then again Mcgill students are known for parting too. Well at least the Americans who grew up in culture where 21 was the minimum age required to drink. </p>

<p>I would actually choose Fordham for undergrad and McGill for grad. I think you are more likely to see the Ivy caliber of the school in grad years. The low faculty ratio, research dollars in grad, a chance to work with award winning faculty etc. This to me is the wiser choice for Americans. Grad schools in Canada are generally highly selective. They make you scratch your head when you think about undergrad admit requirements. U of T is another one and Queen’s – with grad schools in many fields as selective as HYP.</p>

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<p>" But before they get all excited about the “novelty” of going to college in Canada, I was simply making the point they need to consider all the factors in that."</p>

<p>Novelty? All the people I know who were interested in Fordham chose it because it was the best school they could get into in the NYC area. They couldn’t get into Columbia, NYU, or Barnard, but were desperate to be ‘New Yorkers’ for their undergraduate education anyway. Take Fordham out of the area and it is hardly competitive with any top school using any method of consideration.</p>

<p>My close friend went to Fordham in Fall '08. He is now working on transferring to another school for the Spring term because he says he “can’t stand to go to Fordham another day.” He describes it as the opposite of academic, and says it is full of spoiled rich brats who just want to be in the area.</p>

<p>Edit to say: I am applying to McGill as a safety of sorts, even though I have many qualms about the size (impersonal, yes) and, of course, the weather. :stuck_out_tongue: However, McGill is still an academic great in the world and, I think, still has name recognition in the states (still, depending on major).</p>

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<p>texasco2013-What do you mean by “best” school they could get into? According to what? some artificial ranking system? Some people chose Fordham over NYU because they are turned off to the lack of traditional campus at NYU (BTW I love NYU personally). Of all the schools you mentioned Fordham (in the Bronx) has the most traditional campus feel. Some people may chose Fordham over the others because they want a Jesuit-influenced education. Some may chose Fordham for some of it’s specific programs. Did you know that Fordham has a very selective dance program in cooperation with the famous Alvin Ailey dance group? Did you know that Fordham has a very well known sports broadcasting program? I could go on. I agree with ivyleaguer. Fordham is more personal and might be a better choice for undergrad and McGill for grad, assuming you have the money for a private school undergrad education.</p>

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<p>*meant to type “choose”</p>

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<p>There are always people who get “transfer-itis” freshman year. It happens even at Ivy Schools, but really its just a matter of people thinking the grass is greener. If Fordham was so awful they wouldnt have 23,000 applications last year, be on track for 24,000 applications this year. I know people at UNC-Chapel Hill, the number two or three rated Public university in the nation. Many of them were sorely disappointed with the quality of their classes, the bureaucracy, the nasty overcrowded and noisy dorms, the overwhelming party atmosphere, blah blah blah. I dont do college bashing and dont respect people who do. I mention this only as an anecdote of truth that you can find something negative to say about any school. </p>

<p>I know some kids at Fordham who had uber stats and could have gone anywhere. ANYWHERE. As in 1550 or Higher SATs. Some of them got the itchy feet, greener pastures notion last year in January
but settled down and stayed at Fordham. </p>

<p>Most colleges have transfers in and out every year. Sometimes its just a poor fit. If your “friend” is unhappy, he may want to calm down, stay focused and wait and see
things look different in March. There will be a Freshman Retreat in early January, which is fun, and helps put things in perspective. A lot of Freshmen hate the core requirements, especially if they are not liberal arts students. My D is liberal arts and doesnt mind the core stuff at all and indeed has had some very interesting classes. </p>

<p>Sometimes its maturity problems. Are there party animals at Fordham? Yes. And there is also a healthy number at Tufts, Vassar, NYU, Columbia, Dartmouth, Syracuse, Villanova, Boston College, Bowdoin. You name it. Duke, Wake and UNC are notorious party schools. Vanderbilt has a party reputation. But all of them are also very strong academic schools.</p>

<p>Nobody wants anyone to be “unhappy.” But its really too soon to tell and quiting this early is a sign of someone who is not transitioning very well. </p>

<p>I wish your friend the best. But these problems are usually personal to the student and not indicative of a “bad school.” In fact, Fordham is an awesome school with tremendous opportunities.</p>

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<p><<prestige is=“” a=“” highly=“” overrated=“” commodity.=“” its=“” often=“” erroneous=“” as=“” well.=“” to=“” suggest=“” that=“” mcgill=“” no=“” brainer=“” decision=“” over=“” fordham=“” just=“” someone=“” who=“” doesnt=“” know=“” or=“” understand=“” and=“” powerful=“” name=“” in=“” the=“” northeast,=“” attends=“” bragging=“” on=“” it.=“”>></prestige></p>

<p>I was born and bred in CT and have lived in the Northeast for most of my life, and McGill has always had a much higher reputation than Fordham. McGill always had the rep of a great university with one of the continent’s best medical schools and so forth. Fordham was generally regarded as a place where boys from Catholic school would go.</p>

<p>I am not saying that this has <strong>anything</strong> to do with reality in terms of the comparative quality of the undergraduate education, then or now. But I really cannot agree that the Fordham name is so very powerful in the northeast. In fact, I think that outside of the metropolitan NYC area it is fairly obscure.</p>

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<p>Why do you have to choose a first choice now anyway? It’s only December and you haven’t been admitted to either yet. It’s not really important to make a delimited list with a clear first, a clear second, etc. What’s more important is that you know which schools are at the top of your list. It’s clear that McGill and Fordham are both at the top; it’s ridiculous trying to force your brain to rank one higher than the other when there really is no clear reason to. Wait until April, get your acceptances, discuss the finances and other stuff with your parents, and make your decision then.</p>

<p>Also, I live in New York, and I would say McGill has a better reputation here than Fordham. Both are regarded as good schools, but McGill is better academically speaking.</p>

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<p>This thread has fallen from the sublime to the ridiculous, frankly. Sorry, I am done with it. Is any school that much better than another school? Does it matter? No. It only matters how YOU do in school and what YOU do with your education. All this prestige stuff is just a bunch of horsehockey driven by media moguls and it has become rather superficial, to the point that many schools are opting out of USNWR rankings. </p>

<p>The point I originally made had NOTHING to do with prestige. It had to do with getting a job and feeling comfortable on campus socially, academically and culturally etc. It had to do with the kind of experience a student wants in university and it is very different in Canada than it is here.</p>

<p>In my considered opinion as a professional and parent, “credentialism” is absurd. Very likely all of my kids will attend different schools for different reasons and God willing they will all succeed in their own unique way.</p>

<p>Pitting one school against another is absurd. Except on the football or soccer field or basketball or baseball court etc.</p>

<p>I wish every person the best in their college endeavors. Whether at Iowa State, Texas Tech, Rice, Stanford, UCSD, Fordham, McGill, BC, Loyola, George Washington, Johns Hopkins, UNC, Emory, or the best little private college in your community that you can find. It simply doesnt really matter. My mission on CC from the gitgo has been to DISPEL AND DISPERSE elitism and all its evil progeny. Frankly, I find it a shameful practice. Wholly counterproductive and counterintuitive to the “collegial” experience that higher education is supposed to be about. All these professional college counselors make me ill. Its like packaging a kid with glitzy neon signs. BLAH!</p>

<p>I would much rather help an average kid get into the college of THEIR dreams, no matter how modest, and see them achieve their objectives and become a productive citizen than spend a minute of my time discussing the minutiae of credentialism with kids obsessed with school rankings. I am sorry.</p>

<p>That is my rant.</p>

<p>To the OP, I sincerely wish you find the place that is best for you, regardless where that may be and that you succeed beyond your wildest dreams. But remember that success is measured not by your net worth but by your personal worth
how successful you are as a human being, a parent, a spouse, a member of your community giving back to those who helped you along the way.</p>

<p>God bless.</p>

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<p>Oh wow, great thead! I did my BA at Fordham and now I’m doing my PhD at McGill. </p>

<p>Fordham is an excellent school. It has lots of student/teacher interaction and a great campus. The administration is wonderfully helpful and <em>very</em> easy to approach. The classes were challenging and yes, they were definitely deflated. I’m not the person to ask about reputation since I’m of the conviction that it really doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad. The only thing that matters is that you get the attention you need, work with people you want to work with, and live where you want to live. If that’s Whatsamatta U., go for it. But seriously, strongly consider Fordham because of its great campus environment. </p>

<p>McGill is a big, public, anonymous university. One plus to the big Canadian U’s is that you will spend quite a bit less than you would on a private American university. Still, I’d much rather go to a smaller place like Fordham Rose Hill and then pursue graduate degree work in a larger place. And that’s exactly what I did. Trust me, if/when you get to the graduate level you will shortly realize that no one cares where you did your undergrad. It’s all about one’s ability to write scholarly-level material and the ability to advance oneself as a scholar. I think Fordham is an excellent place to learn these skills, and I hope you choose to go there.</p>

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<p>haha lol haha</p>