Fordham vs. Villanova

Colleges and Universities A-Z Villanova University
101

<p>Oh good grief.</p>

<p>Where is your proof that kids who have to put off their education is a measure of success? There are many reasons why a kid can’t graduate on time…personal issues, money issues etc. and I will grant that the Nova profile of students are more homogeneous and financially stronger and can afford to graduate on time, but I am talking about graduates, not kids who put it off graduating on time or can’t for whatever reasons. You just can’t take some stats and create the results you want no matter how many times you “reiterate”.</p>

<p>Again, outcomes, results.</p>

<p>Outside of PA, Nova is known as a very good school with great sports, but professional after professional I speak to do not consider it “Better” than Fordham and the other schools you claim Nova is better than. I work with HS guidance depts. and again, Nova a fine school, but not considerably better than others mentioned here.</p>

<p>OK, I am really done now. Say and think whatever you want on your thread.</p>

102

<p>Regarding “outcomes, results.” </p>

<p>Please see post # 100.</p>

103

<p>Please…this is tedious, nauseous and sophomoric. There is no such thing as an absolute ranking and the quality of education at most schools is just fine, thank you very much. The elitists will try to provide data and statistics in the finest minutiae they can muster. But when it all comes down to it, selecting a college is about personal fit, personal objectives, personal criteria/needs/restrictions.</p>

<p>People who have an inate need to feel superior will always look for ways to make others (and their schools) look inferior. Its a psychological impediment if you ask me.</p>

<p>Whether its this thread (now 4 years running…absurd on its face) or a Stanford vs. Berkeley or Harvard vs. Cornell or name a school is unimportant. Its the same old elitist methodology of creating or manipulating stats to justify their condescension. Its odious.</p>

<p>Villanova is a fine school. Its Augustinian. Fordham is a fine school. Its Jesuit. Villanova is in Philadelphia. Fordham is in New York. They are more similar than disparate. Villanova has a better basketball team. Villanova has a superb engineering school. Its also a regional LAC and is ranked #1 in the North, while Fordham is a National Research University (tough crowd) and is ranked presently #53 and likely to break top50 this year. Villanova gets slightly higher SAT scores because Engineers score very high in mathematics. Fordham has no engineering school and it sends its best engineers to Columbia for a 3-2 offering. </p>

<p>Many, if not most, applicants who apply to Villanova also apply to Fordham and vice versa. Some will select Villanova and some will select Fordham. All get a superb education and great opportunities. </p>

<p>I have neighbors who got into both and then opted for Drexel, so go figure. </p>

<p>I congratulate everyone who is admitted in either school, and I encourage them to attend Fordham as that is my gig. But its just an opinion and I acknowledge everyone is different. </p>

<p>In the meantime, please stop this insidious and unprofessional game of trying to prove Villanova is “better than” Fordham (or Holy Cross or BC or name a school.) </p>

<p>In the Jesuit ranks of 28 universities in the United States, Fordham is in the top tier with Georgetown, BC, Holy Cross. That speaks for itself. I am certain if Villanova were Jesuit it would also be in that top tier of Jesuit universities. </p>

<p>As a note of considerable weight and depth, the source for Martin Luther’s infamous theological treatise that “we are saved by faith alone” was none other than St. Augustine of Hippo. Villanova is run by the Augustinians. Well done!</p>

<p>Now let us cease and desist from this nonsense and encourage applicants to both schools and offering them helpful commentary so that they may select the right school for THEM. </p>

<p>Thanks and good day!</p>

104

<p>“Fordham is in the top tier with Georgetown” ???</p>

105

<p>I don’t mean to be negative but HC and fordham are hardly considered rivals to Gtown. BC for that matter, although closer, is not a peer school to gtown. Georgetown consideres itself an academic rival (as in have a close cross admit rates) with Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Cornell, Emory, and USC. Very rarely to students choose BC over Gtown and almost never do students choose Fordham and holy cross over gtown.</p>

106

<p>You guys are a trip. Please read her post again:</p>

<p>“In the Jesuit ranks of 28 universities in the United States, Fordham is in the top tier with Georgetown, BC, Holy Cross.”</p>

<p>She is talking about of the 28 JESUIT schools, the top ranked 5 (US N&WR) are: GU, BC, HC and Fordham, So top tier in this context is correct as compared to the rest of the Jesuit schools (you really needed an explaination!!!), unless you just want to twist that out of perspective as you have done on other points.</p>

<p>The posters on this thread are over the top in a myopic and irrational effort to make VU greater than it is. Knock yourselves out.</p>

107

<p>^I am not trying to overrate VU. My last point was solidifying Georgetown’s status, not VUs. Considering VU is not jesuit, the top jesuit tier does nothing for the VU vs Fordham debate. One can also say VU is the best augustinian university in the country. That does nothing for the pertinent debate.</p>

<p>Ramray why is it so hard for you to admit that VU is on par with Holy Cross, perhaps a little below BC, and a little above fordham? US news and many sites base most of their methodology off SAT scores, GPA, Retention rates, student/faculty ratio, acceptance rate (selectivity), and graduation rate. </p>

<p>VU has higher SAT scores and GPA than both fordham and holy cross. I have posted the numbers before. </p>

<p>HC retention rate: 94.8%
VU rate: 94.5%
Fordham rate: 90.2%
Boston college : 95.5%</p>

<p>avg. SAT scores for enrolled students:</p>

<p>Boston college 1350 mth+cr
Villanova 1300 mth+cr
Holy Cross 1295 mth+cr
Fordham 1245 mth+cr </p>

<p>Student/faculty ratio:</p>

<p>Villanova 11:1
Holy cross 11:1
Fordham 13:1
Boston college 14:1</p>

<p>acceptance rate as of 2011:</p>

<p>Boston college 29%
Holy Cross 33%
Villanova 39%
Fordham 42%</p>

<p>4 year Graduation rate:</p>

<p>Holy Cross: 90%
Boston college 87%
Villanova 85%
Fordham 76%</p>

<p>GPA based off the common data set. I have posted the numbers before.</p>

<p>BC>VU>HC>Fordham </p>

<p>Comparing VU vs HC one should conclude as follows. VU has slightly higher SAT scores and GPA. Holy Cross has slightly higher retention rate(0.3%) and slightly higher grad rate. HC’s acceptance rate is a little below vu (33%vs 39%). They are tied in student to faculty ratio. Considering these categories are what many websites, such as usnwr, base their rankings off, one can conclude that VU and HC are ranked almost identical. Ramray you should be able to acknowledge this. </p>

<p>Comparing VU vs Fordham (as the original thread posts)
One can conclude that VU has higher SAT scores (55pts) and GPA. VU also has a lower acceptance rate (39% vs 42%), better student to faculty ratio, and higher graduation rate and retention rate. </p>

<p>In simple terms:
Of the 6 categories listed between VU and HC, HC wins 3 VU 2 and they tie in 1.
Of the 6 categories listed between VU and Fordham, VU wins all 6. </p>

<p>Through statistical data based off usnwr methodology I have shown that VU and HC are academically insignificantly different, and that BC is slightly above VU and HC and that fordham is slightly below VU and HC. </p>

<p>Ramray I am not “myopic” or “irrational”. The numbers don’t lie. VU is better than you thought, it’s okay to admit it.</p>

108

<p>Knight,</p>

<p>I acknowedge that VU has better stats than FU, that is not the nature of this thread. I can agree with your statement “…that VU is on par with Holy Cross, perhaps a little below BC, and a little above fordham?”. But where we parted company was the many, many statements on this thread where folks said, implied, etc. that VU was as good as or better than schools (BC, GU, CWU) when it is not.</p>

<p>I acknowledge VU stats are a bit better…it is the magnification some here gave those “Little bit better” stats to prove some kind of superiority that triggered some the reactions you saw here.</p>

<p>I know HC folks who do not agree that VU is on the same level. So what? On other threads here folks do not see VU as you do, e.g. from the Bucknell site: </p>

<p>"You can never assume you will get into a school like Bucknell or Lehigh, even if you having matching or higher stats. They are very selective schools.</p>

<p>I know someone who got into one of the schools (was a legacy), waitlisted at the other and got into an Ivy. Meaning got into or was waitlisted at either Bucknell or Lehigh and accepted at an Ivy. The student had 2100 or so (can’t remember exactly) SAT.</p>

<p>So, as per usual suggestions–apply to several matches (Bucknell? and Lehigh?), several reaches (Chicago, Cornell, Brown, Colgate??), several safities (Villanova(?), a state school,and ?)…"</p>

<p>I KNOW you and others here find it crazy that some would consider VU a safety school to Lehigh or Bucknell, yet everyone has their own views and perceptions, and everyone can put a spin on stats. I think it was Mark Twain and British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli who said “There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, Damn lies and Statistics”, so try not to hold on too tightly to play with stats to prove a point. I believe the VU law school learned a painful lesson in that regard.</p>

<p>I truly will exit now…I wish you all well, I really do. I and others will see Villanova in one context while you and others will see it in yours…FWIW I root for Nova (except when they play Fordham or Syracuse /:^) as has been said bere before: there is more alike between the two schools than not alike.</p>

109

<p>I agree mostly with what you are saying. But the only way to objectively compare two schools is to use statistics. Or else we would have a bunch of threads comparing the academic quality of Stanford to Devry or something. My main point reflects yours that between VU, Fordham, BC, or holy cross, make a decision based on your specific program or location or student body etc…those schools are academically comparable when all is said and done. </p>

<p>However, I know many people will have certain opinions etc…but its silly to consider fordham an acemic peer to VU but VU is not a peer to lehigh. I agree that in many ways fordham and VU are peers just as lehigh is a peer to VU…I will try to refrain from posting stats on this but if I don’t it is simply one’s opinion against the next and nothing to support it. Just a quick one then. Lehigh is not more selective than VU. Lehigh 38.4% accepted compared to VU’s 39%.</p>

<p>I will just state my last point on this. Any school that is only fifty pts higher in sat scores or 5-10% points different in acceptance rate is not enough to make one school academically dominant over the other. In other words Fordham is not necessarily a safety to VU and VU is not a safety to lehigh. Their sat scores and selectivity are just too similar .</p>

110

<p>Having attended Villanova I can assure you that lehigh is an academic peer. Many students at nova were accepted to lehigh but chose nova and vice versa. </p>

<p>Acceptance rate is very similar between the two( 38% vs 39%). the sat scores are almost exactly the same (1300 to 1310). People may see VU as a safety to lehigh but those people have clearly never stepped foot on campus at VU or lehigh because both student bodies are extremely similar in academic caliber and they acknowledge that.</p>

111

<p>Villanova and Lehigh’s undergraduate programs are peers. Lehigh has much stronger graduate programs and conducts more research. Among undergraduates who were admitted to both Villanova and Lehigh, more choose to attend Villanova (something like 60% to 40% - so not a huge margin). </p>

<p>Bucknell historically was stronger than Villanova but the gap has closed. I would consider them (peers with an edge to Bucknell) but tending to have different focuses. Villanova’s student body is almost half business majors.</p>

112

<p>regarding cross admits this is what I found. </p>

<p>Of students accepted to both VU and Bucknell: 67% choose VU.
Of students accepted to both VU and Lehigh : 56% choose VU</p>

<p>link: <a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.;

113

<p>That comports with my recollection. I think Bucknell suffers a bit as a result of its location. Bucknell is a great school but a lot of people want to be closer to action. Most people would consider Villanova to be in the best location of the three (Lehigh, Bucknell and Villanova).</p>

114

<p>Which one do you think would be better if one were trying to break into the investment banking field from either school?</p>

115

<p>^villanova’s biz school is ranked very highly (13th by businessweek) and garners significant rep on wall street and does well placing students into invest. banking firms.</p>

<p>BC=holy cross=Villanova>fordham</p>

116

<p>Villanova:</p>

<p>Acceptance Rate: 44%
SAT Average for Incoming Freshmen: 1,300 (89th Percentile)
ACT Average: 29.5
Student to Faculty Ratio: 11:1</p>

<p>Fordham:</p>

<p>Acceptance Rate: 42%
SAT: 1245 (83rd/84th Percentile)
ACT: 28
Student to Faculty Ratio: 12:1</p>

<p>While Fordham does accept a smaller percentage of applicants, I would contend that Villanova still provides a slightly better learning environment. As I’ve stated previously, the quality of teaching will probably be the same at both schools with the only real difference being the quality of student you are surrounded by and the size of the classes you attend. And Villanova comes out ahead in both categories based on the numbers provided above.</p>

<p>(The number provided were all taken from the College Board except for the student to faculty ratios, which were found at Princeton Review)</p>

117

<p>Results of Forbes recent college rankings: [America’s</a> Top Colleges](<a href=“Forbes America’s Top Colleges List 2022”>Forbes America’s Top Colleges List 2022)</p>

<ol>
<li>College of the Holy Cross</li>
<li>Villanova</li>
<li>Fordham</li>
</ol>

118

<p>By many standards and college sources, Forbes is the least quoted and used ranking. Please do your homework folks, Forbes makes it very clear on their website that the primary criteria they use is AFFORDABILITY; all other criteria take a back seat. This is why they will have tier 2 schools ranked above academically better teir 1 schools. If you are going to quote them, quote them for what the ranking is: cost.</p>

<p>I soon expect to see Jimmy the Greek’s or Snookie’s Jersey Shore college ranking on this thread. Very sad.</p>

<p>Stick with US News and World Report for serious rankings.</p>

119

<p>Forbes rankings are not based primarily on affordability. Otherwise Holy Cross (#41) could not have been ranked higher than the US Naval Academy (#43). The USNA does not charge tuition.</p>

<p>The rankings are based on five general categories: post graduate success (32.5%), which evaluates alumni pay and prominence, student satisfaction (27.5%), which includes professor evaluations and freshman to sophomore year retention rates, debt (17.5%), which penalizes schools for high student debt loads and default rates, four-year graduation rate (11.25%) and competitive awards (11.25%).</p>

120

<p>Keep in mind though that forbes data is based off surveys which should not be considered “data.” Forbes is generally clueless when it comes to college rankings.</p>