My D20 has stated some preliminary research on colleges. She is mainly interested in LACs or smaller universities. A few of the schools that have excited her recommend 4 years of high school foreign language. She only has 3 years of Spanish, from 7th - 9th grade. High school classes taught in our middle school are taught by high school teachers, are shown on the high school transcript and are used in calculating high school GPA and class rank.
She hated Spanish and only took Spanish 3 because our state requires 3 years of high school language to qualify for an academic honors diploma. We attempted to convince her to forge ahead with Spanish 4, but she decided not to in order to make room in her schedule for more music classes. I’m not sure that she is second guessing that decision, but she is considering trying another language this year in order to show a willingness to meet the 4 year recommendation for this colleges and to help with diction and understanding of classical voice pieces. Her preference would be Italian but that is not offered at her school, so she would probably elect for German.
The rest of her schedule will be fairly advanced - 3 APs, 2 academic classes, 2 audition only music classes. If she doesn’t take German, she will probably add another non-audition music class. Senior year she will have 4 APs and at least 2 music classes.
What are your thoughts on this? Will it look weird to do 3 years of one language and 1 (maybe 2 if she enjoys it) of another?
Thanks for your help. I just want to help her make the best decision.
When colleges say they want 4 years of a foreign language they generally mean reaching level 4 of one language. Taking one year of German or Italian will not meet the four years of foreign language standard (although it may be incrementally better than not taking any additional foreign language)…
If schools recommend 4 years of a foreign language, then your D should consider it. A 4th year of Spanish is most likely better than adding a new language for one year. She can also consider taking Italian through a local CC.
For colleges that request/require 4 years of a FL, I am not aware of any instance where it is anything other than 4 years of the same language. Only completing level one is, IMO, just a waste of a class; one won’t learn enough to make it meaningful.
As others have said, complete of level 4, regardless of how many years taken in HS, almost always meets the requirement.
As an FYI, without knowing why she hated Spanish, I will say she probably won’t like Italian more. And unless one is totally interested in Italian culture, learning Italian (certainly as compared to Spanish) is pretty useless for a US resident, and sadly, I say this as a fluent speaker of Italian.
I agree that if she’s going to take a FL senior year, then she should suck it up and stick with Spanish. But I’d also consider emailing the admissions offices of the specific schools she’s interested in and ask whether it will be held against her if she swaps out Spanish IV for a non-audition music class. I think you’d have a more compelling case if she were swapping for an AP class or an audition only class because then it’s swapping rigor for rigor.
My D20 was in a similar situation, but she decided to start a new FL tract in 10th grade, so she’ll have 3 years of Spanish and 3 years of Mandarin. Her school requires a language every year of enrollment. She has been told it probably won’t be a problem since (1) the fourth year is “recommended” and not required AND (2) three years of two languages isn’t necessarily a bad thing. We were told by her counselor and the two LACs she’s asked that even though she completed high-school “Spanish 3” that colleges tend to look at the middle school years a little different, and that it is actually her willingness to complete three years of Mandarin in high school that they will look favorably upon. Some of that may be because the language is Mandarin, though, which may be looked at differently than French or Spanish which so many kids take. Also, at least in our school, the fourth year of Mandarin is AP level (compared with the 5th and 6th years of Spanish). I would have your DD suck it up and take the fourth year of Spanish.
I agree with most everyone. Finishing Spanish 3 in high school is the mimimum selective colleges are looking for. Completing Spanish 4 is better than doing one year of a different foreign language. She’s unlikely to like Italian any better than Spanish unless the teachers are much better. Having studied a bit of both they are structurally quite similar. FWIW the fourth year of a language in high school is often the year where you can finally have some fun reading books and such and not just learning vocabulary and grammar.
FWIW, my son had finished Latin 3 sophomore year, but suffered through Latin 4 because he knew the colleges he was targeting would want it. I don’t think he ever got above a B in Latin, but he got into some very selective colleges anyway.
Is she considering pursuing vocal performance in classical music? Then studying basic French, Italian, and German might be helpful since opera singers do need to learn these languages. While Spanish is not that useful in this sense, her foundation there might help her in learning Italian/French a little.
My observation is that LACs are for the most part flexible on their requirements and recommendations as long as there’s a rational thought process behind the decision to choose this over that, which your daughter or her counselor could explain. To me, taking German to enhance her vocal music performance makes perfect sense.
In addition to looking at what it takes to get in, you need to consider what it takes to get out. Many colleges have FL proficiency degree requirements which are determined in a variety of ways. Some use high school course level, some use standarized test scores, some administer their own placement tests.
To be on the safe side, if your daughter isn’t interested in taking Spanish in college, she should look closely at each college’s degree requirements. If she doesn’t start German in high school, she may end up taking Spanish or another FL in college. Or her three years of Spanish may allow her to"place out." The rules are variable and hard to get a black and white reading on.
My son had two years of two different languages and was admitted to a selective LAC. He wanted to avoid taking FL at the college level and chose schools that didn’t have a FL proficiency requirement, which is a separate but related issue to admissions requirements.
Thank you everyone for your very valuable feedback and links. I will sit down with her this evening to discuss your advice.
She is considering pursuing classical vocal performance, and that is why she is interested in Italian and German. We’ll see. She will just have to weigh all the pros/cons of her options before making a decision.
“She is considering pursuing classical vocal performance, and that is why she is interested in Italian and German.”
I may be in the minority here, but I think that’s a very valid reason for the switch. She can always give a quick explanation about it in the “Additional Information” section of the Common App.
OK, that’s probably a key piece that might have helped from the outset.
I don’t disagree, although I would be more comfortable in giving this as a reason if she did 2 years of German, which BTW is an option since the young lady is a rising junior. I still contend one year is just a waste.
Having said that, recommendations are just that - recommendations. Plenty of applicants get into one of their top choice schools without following recommendations to the letter.
@skieurope I’m sorry, I thought I had included that information in my original post, but it must have been in an earlier draft. Yes, she would like to continue her vocal studies into college, probably as a BA double major, but hasn’t decided for sure yet.
Normally I would be ok with taking a “recommended but in actuality it’s required” type class, but with Foreign Languages I find it…disappointing that people “have” to choose a fourth year of a FL vs. taking a class they’re actually interested in (even if it’s non-rigorous).
I took 5 years of Spanish in HS and an advanced level class in college, but I’ve used Spanish maybe 5 times in the past 5-6 years.
Okay, I agree that an interest in classical vocal music is a fine reason to switch. Italian will probably be easy having had the Spanish. I’d forgotten that way back when I took a refresher German course at a community college that was full of people learning it for opera.
