<p>So I know most ivy schools say that a competitive student is defined to have 4 years of foreign language classes. What does this mean exactly?</p>
<p>My school ran on a block schedule (which means that we take 4 classes the 1st semester then 4 more classes the 2nd semester).
So, for me, I took three levels of spanish but in two years. Does this count as 3 years of FL (since technically its 3 separate classes) or only 2 years?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>My interpretation would be that you did 3 years. Your GC would know though.</p>
<p>I would translate things another way. Elite colleges want their students to have a high level of competency in a foreign language – if not effortless fluency, the ability to have a conversation about a sophisticated topic with a native speaker, and to read newspapers, academic articles, literature with relative ease. Or at least be well on their way to that point in at least one language by the time they enter college.</p>
<p>So, if your courses got you there, great. If they didn’t, you should be going further.</p>
<p>Thanks! So does that mean I should demonstrate my aptitude in a FL through an SAT subject or AP ?</p>
<p>Since there’s a question about how much you have really taken, of course an SAT II or AP would put any doubts to rest. If you are going into 12th grade, you won’t be able to take an AP until after admissions season is over, though, and the SAT IIs are not at the same level.</p>
<p>At Harvard, students can test out of the foreign language requirement by achieving a score of 700 or above on the SAT II, or a 5 on the AP exam or scoring a 700 on the exam administered by Harvard at the beginning of classes; that exam is modeled on the SAT II.
I believe that Harvard and other schools, care more about the level that has been achieved than the number of years. Not taking a fourth year won’t be a deal-breaker, but students will still have to demonstrate proficiency.</p>
<p>Hmmm. So a 700 SAT II = a 5 AP? That’s interesting. In my day they were very different tests, and the AP was much more sophisticated and harder. But that was before they split the Language and Literature APs, so to take the AP you not only needed to know the language decently well, you had to have read a whole bunch of stuff in it. I only took one of what was then called Achievement Tests in a language, and honestly I remember it as a speed bump.</p>
<p>JHS:</p>
<p>This may be an anomaly. Harvard accepts only scores of 5s on APs. When S was admitted, a score of 600 on SATII or on the Placement exam was enough to test out of the foreign language requirement. That score has now been upped to 700–maybe last year, maybe two years ago. So it’s not so much that Harvard considers a 700 to be the equivalent of a 5 on AP, but that it has raised the minimum score on the SATII.</p>
<p>I would relax more about this. You can ask your guidance counselor, or call Harvard admissions, about how the block schedule translates.</p>
<p>However, at Harvard, it seems as if most freshmen take a foreign language, and many take a level below the level that placement tests would indicate.</p>
<p>I disagree that elite colleges are looking for the kind of proficiency that JHS describes. Yes, it is good to take the equivalent of 4 years in high school, simply to demonstrate persistence with a language, and to fulfill a recommended course list that many colleges have (published in all those guides). But don’t worry about being extremely proficient or having experience reading great literature (if your school enables you to do this, then you are fortunate, but many public schools do not).</p>
<p>Freshman foreign language classes often have a conversational emphasis, and were not too difficult. In fact, our daughter enjoyed her French class a lot, and even used the term “fun.”</p>
<p>I said they were looking for it, not that they found it in every entering student. But essentially all of the students I know who have been accepted there have had real proficiency (not necessarily fluency) in at least one language other than English, and sometimes more than one.</p>
<p>There is no way for any college to know what a student has read, or whether they can carry on a conversation, in another language. High schools vary in what they can provide, in terms of foreign language instruction. The SAT II score in a language is only one very small part of a person’s application, and it can easily be balanced out by other things.</p>
<p>The main question was about what courses to take in high school. For an Ivy League college, I would think a student would simply take a foreign language course every semester of high school, but there may be suggestions. I think it is a recommendation, not a requirement.</p>
<p>Again, the foreign language classes in freshman year were a good experience, and it seemed as if most freshmen took one.</p>
<p>hmmmm. I don’t know about “most students” taking a foreign language in freshman year to fulfill their requirements. None of my S’s blockmates did because they all placed out.</p>
<p>There are quite a few students who take language courses, however, because they either want to learn improve their skills in a language they already have studied or learn a brand new one.</p>
<p>One of my funniest experiences was going to a party thrown for a Harvard prof years ago. It was an a capella group that decided to sing Madonna’s “Like a Virgin” in… Chinese. The students in the group were Chinese, no surprise there; but the front man was a Jewish student who had not started to learn Chinese until he got to Harvard. He was utterly hilarious, in a good way. I was told his Chinese was pitch perfect.</p>
<p>I enjoyed taking first year German at Harvard, and might even call it fun, but it moved MUCH faster than high school classes. By the end of the year we were reading a detective novel. I did like having a class that required steady work, but no big papers, and a relatively easy final if you’d been doing your homework.</p>
<p>Back when the SAT2 requirement was only 600, it was clear that it was a lot easier than getting a 5 on the AP, I’m not so sure now, not having looked at samples of either test. Back when I took AP French I didn’t take the AP since it was clear I’d flunk it, I hadn’t even finished reading The Red and the Black, but I was also planning on spending a year in France and would be arriving at Harvard speaking French fluently.</p>
<p>From my understanding of how block schedules work - you have taken the equivalent of three years of a language.</p>
<p>If you are planning on studying abroad, it would be prudent to continue (or begin) a foreign language while in college. At Harvard, some students take enough foreign language courses so that they are allowed to replace a core requirement. (There is a name for this, but I can’t recall what it is.) I believe that study abroad also replaces a core requiremnt.</p>
<p>^ Aren’t the current freshman required to follow the General Education requirements and not Core?</p>
<p>so what is the exact level of proficiency that is deemed sufficient? i took chinese for like 10 years in a country where chinese is a national language [neither china nor taiwan], yet the level of proficiency in terms of being able to write say an argumentative essay in chinese is very low…</p>
<p>also, does a fail in the language because of being ill detrimental to you? i was sick, and i failed, but my two different teachers from different schools that i know are writing a letter for me to vouch that my standard is way above that of the exam’s given one…</p>
<p>You would be asked to take the Placement test at Harvard; it would determine whether you tested out and if not, what level of Chinese to take.</p>
<p>I took three years of spanish in high school, but stopped because it didn’t fit into my schedule; however, I speak fluent Ukrainian and proficient Russian. Would me not finishing four years of spanish still be seen as a detriment even though I speak two other languages?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Smoda - yes, I believe so on the General Ed requirements.</p>
<p>I took German for two years. I switched to a school where they didn’t offer German and took Latin, and now I want to take a whole bunch of science and math+philosophy my senior year. Would this hurt me if I don’t explain? Would this hurt me if I do explain?
Thanks.</p>