Foreign Student! I'm in for HYPMS, right?! :)

<p>We're all just rehashing the same point over and over again - CHUCK PRESTIGE!</p>

<p>Want to know what's the amazing achievements like for Spore students? </p>

<p>Win top student at SPhO
Win gold at SChO
Represent spore at IChO
etc etc</p>

<p>i'm for real... you can meet such people around on cc ;)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not even any tertiary institutions in Singapore?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wasn't talking about local U, galoisien. He got double degree in local U. </p>

<p>He applied to one of the HYPS and the rest were liberal arts colleges, and didn't get any (so far, at least. He got waitlisted at some places).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Win top student at SPhO
Win gold at SChO
Represent spore at IChO
etc etc

[/quote]
</p>

<p>you don't need those if you have amazing ECs and great essays! :) trust me, i know.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not even any tertiary institutions in Singapore?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wasn't talking about local U, galoisien. He got double degree in local U. </p>

<p>He applied to one of the HYPS and the rest were liberal arts colleges, and didn't get any (so far, at least. He got waitlisted at some places).</p>

<p>
[quote]
fiona,
okay... ermm... juz a question... WHAT EXACTLY is the "significant" academic achievement... i mean... i have like the BIGGEST scholarship you get at pre-univ level from india.. i was the top 0.01 percent for math in india... and reached the highest level a foreigner can for American math exams (that too, in the first attempt)... recieved stuff for singapore math olympiads... soo... ain't it extraordinary...? cuz that's the most ya can get in singapore... the plan for changi airport... and nasa is like super-physics... SO WAD MORE IS NEEDED..????</p>

<p>i mean... i dun't mean to sound cocky or vain or anything.. but... i thought i was really strong in this kinda stuff... clarify if i'm wrong... and list some things which are "significant" and "extraordinary..."</p>

<p>thanks in advance and for the honest advice! really appreciate it!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Honestly Tuna, do you seriously think that SIA scholarship is the best scholarship available? You must be kidding me.. It's only a scholarship to study in SINGAPORE. Haha and MOE as a whole give the scholarship to ALOT ALOT ALOT of people. I'm sorry but I think you're slightly disillusioned. :) I am one of the scholars too, from another country, and I don't even think highly about it at all. I also know a few of the SIA scholars in my school, and well, I admire one of them but the others are just like any other average student. And related to that, you have to remember that there are also applicants from schools like RJ and HC.. Where a significant number of people are super high achievers (you'd never think such people exist before) and where almost every single one of them are applying overseas. You have to fight for admission with those people too.</p>

<p>Don't be offended or anything, but you know, I'm just telling you so that you won't have your hopes up too high...</p>

<p>
[quote]
lisieux, ermm... i juz asked my teachers... abt wad they think... yeah.. .so that's how... juz curious... are you from singapore...?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, I am. Haha. So I actually know your SIA seniors in my school and all. I think I even know the Harvard guy from your school. He's a scholar also right? :P</p>

<p>Anyway, are you applying for aid? (Sorry if I missed your post about that somewhere) 'Cos if you do, your chances decreases significantly.</p>

<p>
[quote]
you don't need those if you have amazing ECs and great essays! trust me, i know.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Definitely helps though =p. Are you Jonathan, btw?</p>

<p>nope, who's that?</p>

<p>Hahaha, hello Singaporeans!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Win top student at SPhO
Win gold at SChO
Represent spore at IChO
etc etc

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
you don't need those if you have amazing ECs and great essays! trust me, i know.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It depends, I mean, not having all those awards won't keep you out, but having them doesn't mean you'll get in, either.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am one of the scholars too, from another country, and I don't even think highly about it at all. I also know a few of the SIA scholars in my school, and well, I admire one of them but the others are just like any other average student. And related to that, you have to remember that there are also applicants from schools like RJ and HC.. Where a significant number of people are super high achievers (you'd never think such people exist before) and where almost every single one of them are applying overseas. You have to fight for admission with those people too.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Amen to this. Sure, the scholarship gives you a sort of advantage over the other applicants from your country, but it's what you made out of this opportunity which matters more. It is not in any way a golden ticket to a US uni acceptance. Speaking from experience.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think I even know the Harvard guy from your school. He's a scholar also right? :P

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL, I know him. Small country. Literally. And lisieux! I know you and you know me too :P Didn't expect to run into you here.</p>

<p>@100%Tuna: At this point, I think we've run out of things to say haha. Chill. Probably the best thing you can do right now is to research A LOT on the schools you plan on applying to. Find out which schools would make a good "fit". In the process, you'll also probably find out about other schools that may not be as recognized here in Asia as HYPSM but will offer you a fantastic education nonetheless. You can start with princetonreview.com, and the Fiske Guide to Colleges (look for it in the library).</p>

<p>limitedvocab: If we're talking about MIT, academic achievements -are- a prerequisite. As I've said earlier, the profiles of those who got rejected by MIT (aswell as those who got in) show us that MIT has sooo many international applicants, that to take in a person without significant academic excellence would be extremely anomalous and risky on their part. </p>

<p>As for other schools like UMichAA and CMU etc, downward, their domestic classes aren't that competitive, so it'd be possible to get in w/o some significant achievements, but with other achievements / SATs / sports / other merits.</p>

<p>Anyway, lisieux, who are you talking about? I'm abit confused. Someone who didn't make it to good schools? T.T I've said before in this thread that the SIA scholarship isn't particularly outstanding, when it's given to 25 people in Singapore. And there's so many other SGeans competing for those places.</p>

<p>Lalala. This is turning into SGfest. I know so many people from this thread, lolol.</p>

<p>"It depends, I mean, not having all those awards won't keep you out, but having them doesn't mean you'll get in, either."</p>

<p>Of course at the end of the day, we are just talking about probabilities. Having all those awards (as some people on cc can definitely attest to) will increase your likelihood of entering those universities, though it's never a gurantee. </p>

<p>Let's put it this way. The OP probably has a chance to enter any sch, though the degree of likelihood varies for each sch. He probably can get admitted to every single of HYPMS, but what's the odds?</p>

<p>@limitedvocab: HAHA who are you!! </p>

<p>Anyway, the thing about the scholarship, one way you can make use of it is to write a damn good essay about your experience. That's what i did and I really think that's what got me into good unis despite my so-so grades.. And that's just ONE of the many ways.</p>

<p>@Fiona: I was talking about a guy in my school who has much better stats than me but not getting any admission from US unis at all.. Yup. </p>

<p>Hmm who do you know from this thread?</p>

<p>ohkay! thanks for alllll those replies... soo... the crux of the argument; as far as i can see is that 1) look beyond brand value... 2) your achievements are far from those which can make the admission officer's eyes pop out... rather, they are very average... and well... i must say... 4 olympiad golds are well beyond my capability... and the ssef etc. etc. well... i guess it's juz too late (should have tried to get my changi thing in, but well, i missed out... so i missed out...)... the thing is... i prefer to go for things apart from olympiads and fairs... i have the NASA thing... an application for a patent for a battery i invented... a radio-cab proposal ready to be presented to that transport authority... and well... for most of it... i end up getting an appreciation note... and in the case of the kfc campaign, getting it actually worked out... sooo... isn't it counted as significant... well... yeah... abt the SIA scholarship... it might not be as great as i thought it was... but it's the max u can get at that level in india... the thing is... i wasn't really hopeful of getting anywhere earlier... which i guess was quite evident from my old thread (whether i should apply or not...)... i actually thought that my achievements were not very significant and yeah... won't really get me anywhere... but getting positive responses gave me a bit of hope... the thing is... well... i find singapore great... in terms of culture, adjustability and everything else... and NUS and NTU are pretty great in their own right... soo... i thought why go through the pain of US apps, essays, teacher recs etc. etc. just to get into a univ not as good or equally good as NUS... (NUS admissions are a cakewalk... especially for SIA scholars)... that was my reasoning behind focusing on the top schools... personally (maybe i'm just totally WRONG) but the name value of the institution matters to me... i was in one of the very best schools in india... probably number 1 in the entire huge country... and not being in RJC does get me frustrated... i dun' t know why but it just does... probably my college is less competitive, gives me more chances and support but i feel i'm at my best when i'm amidst the very best... right now... it's all a storm for me... i just feel sick thinking of what i should do... in spite of all i've read here... and reread and reread... i don't really know what i should do... :(</p>

<p>@ Fiona: ""If we're talking about MIT, academic achievements -are- a prerequisite. As I've said earlier, the profiles of those who got rejected by MIT (aswell as those who got in) show us that MIT has sooo many international applicants, that to take in a person without significant academic excellence would be extremely anomalous and risky on their part.""</p>

<p>If this is the image you have of MIT, then I really think you should be doing a lot of research yourself. It might be true that the singporeans who made MIT this year were all International Olymiad Medallists, and ISEF finalists, but that is not what MIT is made up of. I am one of the few international applicants MIT accepted and i did not have a single olympiad medal. To be honest, the sole reason was because it was just not my passion. I love my maths and physics, but I didn't even stop to think about my academics before playing various varsity sports, and volunteering for the SRC or holding fund raisers, or having a job (for the sole purpose of earning money so i can spend it). I believe that yes, if i gave up even half of my activities, i could have perhaps made the Aus Olympiad team for maths, but that's not me. Thats the risk i took, and thats probably what MIT saw in me. The fact that i knew there was more to life than winning international math and phy competitions. That i went out there and explored different opportunities high schools provide.</p>

<p>I am not saying that winning a medal is not impressive, instead i suggest that if you are going to work your ass off just so you can make the Singapore Olypiad team with the sole purpose of impressing universities, then you are at fault. Admission panels will see through it all. All my other MIT friends aren't isef finalists or olympiad medallists, they are just normal kids with a passion in life, and a thirst for knowledge => usually the non textbook type.</p>

<p>Look, theres a lot ive said there. And to be honest, the person who's closest to the right answer is limitedvocab. If you do end up with some of these national olympiad awards, then yes you will be impressive, but keep in mind, that from the applicants from Singapore, u ll be pretty much as impressive as the rest. What you want to be is someone whos different from their competition. I am not saying that you should abandom your studies and take up many ECs. No. Instead i m suggesting that you stop worrying about making these olympiad teams for the sole purpose of impressing MIT. Take your passions to the next step. You love drama and cricket? talk about them in your essay, not about some National Scholarship you won.</p>

<p>Please remember, MIT just wants a person who will handle the workload but still continue his passions in life. <== That is the guy you want to be. Not some one with "significant academic excellence" as Fiona_ puts it.</p>

<p>Look at my profile and see just how ordinary my academic achievements look in comparison to your's or any of this year's singaporean applicants' who unfortunately didn't make it. I hope that answers some of your questions about the importance of "academic excellence"</p>

<p>Sid, we're talking about Singaporeans here :) It IS true that Singaporeans need local olympiad golds or international olympiad participation / research to even have a shot at MIT. Nobody is saying that it applies to all internationals.</p>

<p>
[quote]
personally (maybe i'm just totally WRONG) but the name value of the institution matters to me... i was in one of the very best schools in india... probably number 1 in the entire huge country... and not being in RJC does get me frustrated... i dun' t know why but it just does... probably my college is less competitive, gives me more chances and support but i feel i'm at my best when i'm amidst the very best... right now... it's all a storm for me... i just feel sick thinking of what i should do... in spite of all i've read here... and reread and reread... i don't really know what i should do...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I was guilty of the same mindset, probably still am. Haha but this time I went with my gut feeling and turned down Berkeley and Carnegie Mellon for UVA, which less Singaporeans know (ok la all 3 not exactly in your league maybe. Lol). I have yet to tell you whether I made the right decision yet, but I have a feeling that I did... Well I'm just sharing it with you to tell you that, you know, we all know brand name is important but don't get too blinded with that to the extent that you overlook other great aspects of the university.</p>

<p>And HEY I don't get why you're so depressed... Maybe if you were in RJC you'd be depressed also 'cos there are just too many high-achievers there, lol... Just saying that you should be happy with where you are. </p>

<p>Lastly, to clarify, I'm not saying that your achievements are mediocre... I think they are great. It's just that there are many other factors taken into account for university admissions, and there are many more people with fantastic stats too. What you should do right now is stop worrying so much, write a damn good essay, and just send in your applications. You never know which uni will accept you, so all you need to do now is TRY. No harm trying (okay maybe a few hundred dollars gone, at the most). It's worth the effort, believe me, 'cos along the way you learn more about who you are as well in the application process, from all the thoughts you put into the application essays.</p>

<p>lisieux: yeah... i guess you're right... have had more suggestions and chances and advice and posts than what anyone could wish for... and well... there isn't much time for me to focus on US-admission-boosting ECs... yeah... i WILL try... i WILL do whatever i can... this will be my last post on this thread... i guess at this point of time, i should focus more on doing whatever i can than just asking how good whatever i already have is... the next time i post here is going to be my application results! so best of luck on this 8-month application final lap to me... and a very very very very very big thanks to everyone who posted here! :)
g'night! (at least to those on this side of the world!)</p>

<p>100%Tuna, I think you're taking this all the wrong way. You shouldn't be disillusioned by the responses you receive here, they're meant to be advice, not discouragement to stop you from pursuing your dreams to attend a top US university. </p>

<p>When i first came and started reading the chances threads here at CC i was shocked at the achievements of ppl who post here asking for "chances". I thought that compared to the others here there was absolutely NO chance I would get into any of the universities I wanted to, and as the application deadlines came closer I kept adding universities to the bottom of my list (safeties) that I knew I would never want to attend even if that was the only place I was accepted. I think Sid has got it absolutely right in post #93 here. Everything he says fits in with what I think being a great college applicant really is about:</p>

<p>"The fact that i knew there was more to life than winning international math and phy competitions. That i went out there and explored different opportunities high schools provide."</p>

<p>My story pretty much reflects this too. I applied for a science major in university and the last "academic" medal I won was for a maths competition in Grade 5. I have never ever won an olympiad medal and I don't think anything I did was for the sole purpose of impressing universities, it was always about what I was passionate about and what I wanted to make of my high school life. I involved myself in activities which I enjoyed, a couple of varsity sports, social service, music etc. nothing of the caliber of what you have. I worked hard on my essays, but it was never "What do the admissions officers want to see?" it was more of if I met a new person today how would I show them who I really was in 500+ words.</p>

<p>As Sid said, "MIT just wants a person who will handle the workload but still continue his passions in life."</p>

<p>I was accepted to 4 universities on your list (Duke, UChicago, UCLA and Cal) , and I'll be attending Dartmouth this fall. If you say "oh it's only because you're not an international, us internationals have a harder time" you'll be happy to know that not only am I an international, i'm Indian.</p>

<p>Continuing with my trend of overquoting Sid, I'd have to say the same goes for all my Dartmouth friends, they " aren't isef finalists or olympiad medallists, they are just normal kids with a passion in life, and a thirst for knowledge => usually the non textbook type."</p>

<p>Though you say the above post was your last, I hope it isn't, because you shouldn't give up on any dream. Even if you don't reply, I hope you get to read this post at least.</p>

<p>Also, touche Sid for your excellent post, I think we work on the same wavelength. :D</p>

<p>hpesoJnilatS, I don't get what you're trying to say.</p>

<p>As what Uphill said, we didn't mean to discourage you from applying to all these dream schools. No one here can accurately predict the outcome of your applications, so you should not let anyone here stop you from applying anyway, if that’s what you really want.</p>

<p>It also seems like you’ve already got safety schools that you would be very happy to attend, and that’s good. If you really really die die must go to uni in the US, apply to a wider range of unis, because you’d probably at least get into the not-quite-as-selective but schools which are still fantastic and renowned for your intended major such as Purdue, UTAustin, Carnegie Mellon, et al. But if you’d prefer NUS/NTU to these schools, I say go ahead and shoot for the HYPSM tier. </p>

<p>Take some time to reflect on why you want to apply to US unis in the first place. For me, I wanted a change in scenery and a chance to broaden my perspectives and experiences (which you can still do if you stay for uni here!). I did not want to go to school where I would probably complain and complain about having to mug so hard and stress so much for exams and stuff. I’m not saying that NUS/NTU is completely all about mugging, ‘cause plenty of people receive a high-calibre education from these unis while still enjoying life outside of studies. But you should know what the educational environment in Singapore is like.. I decided that it wasn’t the best for me; if you decide that you’d be happy here, I don’t see any problems with that. It’s your call.</p>

<p>Just keep in mind that competition for the top US unis will be very very stiff. Hope for the best, but expect the worst, seriously, because no one knows what’s going to happen.</p>

<p>You may not have all those Olympiad whatever awards, and that does put you at a sort of disadvantage. But hey, you’ve got plenty of other things to bring to the table too. The key is to work with what you already have; you’re unique, and you should do your best to show that in your application! (In other words, get kickass recos and work hard on your essays!! Take a look here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-essays/511297-college-admissions-essay.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-essays/511297-college-admissions-essay.html&lt;/a&gt;) Dude, if my profile was even half as imba as yours, I would’ve tried to shoot for the Ivies. But it’s not, and I got into a couple of excellent schools anyway. I have no idea how I even got in; I was expecting to be rejected everywhere with my relatively unimpressive grades and SATs and CCAs and whatnot. But I guess some people liked what they saw, so… I’d say there’s also a certain element of luck/randomness involved.</p>

<p>So yeah. We know you need all the help you can get. Most international applicants have to figure out this whole process by themselves and I remember wanting to tear all my hair out several months ago. Don’t be scared to ask questions (but don’t be too annoying ya? LOL), we’d be glad to try and help out.</p>

<p>GO SCHOLARS! Haha. Now go mug for SATs and common tests :P</p>

<p>And bloody hell, that was MOTHER long!.. I'm sorry for going all Oprah Winfrey here haha.</p>

<p>hpesoJnilatS is probably a troll. Don't feed! :D</p>