<p>I have to agree w/a lot of the other posters here. Wait for the financial aid offers, unless you are in state. My S ended up at a private univ. over PSU because OOS cost of attendance was roughly equal to other school after FA offer.</p>
<p>Plainsman - How does your daughter feel about Penn State?
If she likes the school then go for it.
I have seen lots of kids go off to Penn State and they absolutely love it. If she gets into the Honor's college, they get their own housing. </p>
<p>Plainsman - If your daughter is accepted to a "full need" school would be very very interested if you would share what the out of pocket expectations are between that school and Penn State.</p>
<p>Some kids like big schools, while they are overwhelming for others (like my kids). If she happily chooses Penn State she will get an excellent education. As far as the degree goes - the alumni network is alive and well.</p>
<p>(Kathiep - did the devil make you do it? ;) )</p>
<p>Oddly enough, for some kids, having cows on the campus might be a downer.</p>
<p>^^^LOL - better cross Cornell off the list too if your cow-phobic.
Both schools have awesome creameries BTW.</p>
<p>My daughter decided against PSU after spending an overnight there with a friend in the honors dorm. They had a hard time sleeping for all the loud partiers that night and she mentioned vomit on the floor of the elevator or stairwell (can't remember what she said) the next morning. I've known many kids that love(d) PSU but MY kids have been much happier at their unknown small privates with a max of 30 kids in a class. With their merit aid, the cost was/is actually less then PSU.</p>
<p>kathiep - too bad about your daughter's experience but I'm not sure that's the norm in the honors dorms. My s lived in that dorm and said the kids would have to go to "East" to catch the true party scene. He got lots of work done in his dorm and never had to go to the library.<br>
From your other posts, it's clear that both you and your d thought PSU would be a bad match. But please don't paint it as a school that is JUST about partying and huge classes. My son parties - yes - but he has friends who don't. And for the past two years, the vast majority of his classes have been under 30 (all of them last semester and 4 out of 5 this semester). PSU is just too big and varied to paint it with such broad brush descriptions. And my nephew goes to a small private in state and complains constantly about the crazy drinking scene.
Anway, how do you know that you're kids are much happier at their schools if they never even attended PSU? Did they transfer?</p>
<p>Good points toneranger and you are right I certainly don't know if they would have been happier at another college since there were no transfers. I know many kids that have been happy at PSU - hey, 40,000 students can't be all wrong! </p>
<p>My thinking was more along the lines that if a student is looking at several smaller schools that perhaps that is the fit they are going for, and not a big state U.</p>
<p>toneranger, I'm sure there are kids who don't drink.. it's that way at every college. But to say you have to go over to "East" to catch a party scene is BS (no offense to your son). I had a friend who lived over on the "West". I've seen people passed out on the streets over there every weekend I visited and loud parties kept me up all night... one of the houses over there even had couches in their front yard so they had a place to sit outside while partying... and I think you can say kids would be happier here or there without actually attending both schools. I mean, I spent the 4 best years of my life at my small college. I spent the some of the worst weekends of my life visiting PSU. I honestly don't think I got more than an hour of sleep every night I was there... without doing any drinking. It may be a good environment for some people, but definitely not for all.</p>
<p>OK fendergirl...I'm not sure what private school you went to that allowed you to sleep like a baby on weekends w/o earplugs.. I guess they're out there. And yes, if that's what you want, a standard PSU dorm is NOT the best choice. As I said, my nephew goes to a small private and is ready to transfer because of beer-soaked kids and nothing much else to do. I think it's harder for him to find non-drinkers in that environment. Bottom line, I don't think BIG means more drinking. Have you ever been to a place like Dartmouth? Did you read about the 13 Princeton kids who were recently taken to the hospital after drinking?<br>
And yes, I relying on what my son says - perhaps he sugarcoats it. But another Schreyer student on these boards confirms that EAST is a whole different deal. Not sure what West is like. Discover House seems to be a good place for non-drinkers from what I hear, along with a number of other SLO options. For non-drinking students, I think it's best to take charge and try to be placed in one of these dorms.<br>
Now, let's be real here with respect to the OPs question. I find it very hard to believe that a student who likes Swarthmore would also like PSU. They are So VERY different. Cornell...well maybe. I have always viewed PSU as the "poor mans" Cornell. A family member went there and reported a big drinking scene, but perhaps not like PSU. And yeah, the kids have higher SAT scores there if that means anything :)</p>
<p>My niece is at Penn State and loves it. That said, her parents are NOT fans. She was totally just a number freshman year- with the poor grades (engineering) to prove it. She's doing fine now and got great internships, but does live off campus. It is hard to navigate the bureaucracy and football weekends are insane. I am a fan of big publics, so when I say I think Penn State can be a little daunting, I speak with some experience.</p>
<p>As for financial aid at Ivys, don't count on it. If you are upper middle class, it is NOT a sure thing even with the change in policy. We don't get a dime.</p>
<p>^ "if that means anything"....................
it means a lot. As does average GPA.</p>
<p>Certainly no one is going to hold her hand at Penn State. If she needs help with classes (or anything else) she's going to have to go find it. That is not necessarily a bad thing. I have a sophomore son in West, dean's list in engineering, who studies in his room. (I also have a son at an ivy who's had to study at the library because of noise.)</p>
<p>S lived in Pollock freshman and part of sophomore year. We visited plenty of times on the weekends and were surprised how quiet it was (especially on Saturday night). S said it would get noisy sometimes, but nothing a couple of fans could not drown out. The worst part of the dorms were the general distractions...people dropping in and out to visit. He still lives on campus in the Nittany Apartments and really likes it. Four guys sharing a four bedroom apartment. A totally different living experience compared to the regular dorms as it is much easier to study in his room.</p>
<p>He is also a engineering student, is doing well (dean's list), and has had no trouble with the bureaucracy. He has gotten to know several of his profs/instructors as well as his advisor. However, I have to agree, there is no 'hand holding'. Students have to be the ones to seek out help and opportunities.</p>
<p>drinking happens at all schools... ivy or not.... and i'm not going to lie and say i never went to a party or drank during college... but huge outdoor parties and people passing out on streets didn't happen at my school (we didn't have a football team, i think that makes a difference). and big doesn't necessarily mean more drinking.. but generally speaking, big schools with big football programs (i've been there on football and non football weekends and it's always 10x worse during football weekends) and things like that mean big amounts of people, therefore big amounts drinking, etc... (wow, that's a lot of bigs... haha!) and of course, there is more to fit then just drinking or not drinking.. i'm also not a fan of walking 5 miles (exaggerating) to class and being one of 400 people in a class taught by a ta. i was just trying to say that kind of fit isn't right for just anyone, and you don't have to be a student there to figure that out. </p>
<p>one of my ex boyfriends went there and loved it (as a non drinker). my younger sister goes there (as a non drinker) and hates it. she's finishing up her associates degree and coming home, doesn't want anything to do with the school anymore. i guess we'll see if she finishes up her bachelors somewhere else or not. one of my best friends went there (as a non drinker) and loved it. another of my good friends went there (as a drinker) and absolutely hated it. i think i've spent enough weekends on that campus over the past 8 years to know i personally would hate it... but to each their own, you know? :)</p>
<p>federgirl.. I think we get that you don't like it. But stop generalizing about 400 person classes taught by a TA. You don't go there...you don't attend classes there. My s has had just a couple of those kinds of classes. Yeah, he's in the honors college but his friends don't have a majority of huge classes either. There are some...just like there would be at any big school including big ivies.<br>
It IS a big and it has it's faults but those who don't go to big schools just don't seem to get it. Usually, those who like big schools end up making it small by finding groups and communities that fit their tastes. Those who hate it fail at that task for whatever reason. Your posts make is sound like you think your choice was superior. Good for you.</p>
<p>fendergirl: Based on the people you know, drinking was unrelated to whether people liked PSU or hated it. And as another poster said, there is stupefying drinking even at small private LACs. </p>
<p>Anyway, my D has applied for housing in Discover House. First year housing there is restricted to a limited number of DUGS admittees. Hopefully, my D got her housing app in on time. Someone here mentioned that Discover House is a good place for non-drinkers, so that dorm would be perfect for my D. </p>
<p>My D did not apply to HYPS. She did apply to Cornell and Brown And Wesleyan, Swarthmore and Amherst. And Lehigh. She overnighted at Cornell and loved it. She has yet to visit Brown, Wesleyan and Amherst, although a Brown interviewer did come to our house. She visited Swarthmore and Lehigh twice.</p>
<p>She's not sure if she would go to any of the above schools over University Park unless the non-loan money (we won't accept debt) brings the price down close to PSU-UP. By the way, we're in-state, so the price tag for the privates has to come way, way down. That'll be tough, cause my EFC is not attractive. Of course, all of this is moot if she's rejected by all of the aforementioned "elites." If you're wondering why she applied to such different colleges, it's because she honestly doesn't know what she wants to do. That's why she applied to DUGS. She has no idea.</p>
<p>This waiting is killing us. This waiting is horrible.</p>
<p>Let me preface this remark by saying that I love University Park. My sister went there. I went to Pitt and my son also goes to Pitt. It seems to me that the level of drinking has more to do with location than anything. If a school is near a city with lots to do, I think there are more activity options than if a school is located in the middle of nowhere where partying tends to be a major diversion.</p>
<p>plainsman - you started this thread with some stats. So I'll add some more that may be helpful to you.
From another current thread on class sizes:
Student/Faculty Ratios and Class size stats
Ratio: % of classes under 20, between 20 and 50 and over 50.
17/1 , 33% , 50% , 17% , Penn State
Notice that 17% of classes at PSU are over 50. That's roughly one out of five classes. That fits with my son's experience overall - although he's probably has had less huge lecture halls due to honors classes.
Freshman Retention Rate: Last measured at 93.5%. That's not as good as Ivies and top privates (which range in the high 90s) but it's pretty darn good for a public school. </p>
<p>Hope that helps. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>lkf: I might agree with you but I know an EMT at George Washington U who describes a pretty horrendous drinking scene, along with high numbers of emergency admits. I just think it can be less visible on a campus that's spread out and in a city. At PSU, they all gather on campus - no bar hopping around a big city.</p>
<p>Penn State is a great school. You won't get much arguement from me about that. There are a number of reasons why a kid or family would prefer other schools. Many have already been mentioned. </p>
<p>Some kids just are not big school material. Smaller classes, having more personal contact with professors, seeing the same kids more often, a smaller campus, professors teaching the courses vs TAs are all reasons, that folks turn to LACs and smaller schools. Some prefer to be in a city rather than in a college town. Easier access to the school, and more access to cultural resources. Cost can also be an issue. A PA resident would do decently with Penn State tuition, but for OOSers, the price is steep. There is not a lot of merit or financial aid from Penn State. I've known a number of kids who did better financially by accepting UPenn or Colgate, for instance. Merit awards from some schools can also whittle down the price. Also, there are kids that like a more liberal, less rah rah atmosphere than a frat laden, sports crazy school like Penn State offers. </p>
<p>I wish our state had a true flagship school like Penn State, UMich, UMD. My kids did like those schools, and it would have been a serious consideration. I have one at our biggest state uni, but it does not hold a candle to the flagships forementioned.</p>