<p>Why should anyone be reluctant to choose this school over say Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn or a top LAC?</p>
<p>From PSU's website:</p>
<p>Fulbright Scholars: Penn State ranks 1st nationally (I think PSU is #2 when you add all of the big ones together, including Marshall, Rhodes, etc.)</p>
<p>National Science Foundation Student Fellowships: Penn State ranks 1st in Big Ten</p>
<p>Student-run Philanthropy: Penn State ranks 1st</p>
<p>2008 Dance Marathon raised $6.6 million for children with cancer</p>
<p>Graduates Living in United States: Penn State ranks 1st</p>
<p>William Randolph Hearst Foundation Intercollegiate Journalism Award Program</p>
<p>4th overall
2nd in writing
3rd in broadcast news
9th in photojournalism
3rd in writing-broadcast news<br>
NCAA Graduation Rates</p>
<p>Penn State graduation rate: 83%
(average of NCAA Division 1 Institutions: 62%) </p>
<p>Student Body Statistics
Middle 50% GPA
High School GPA (4.0 scale):</p>
<p>Penn State University Park 3.57-3.97 </p>
<p>It hasn't happened yet. There are six weeks to go before my D2 hears from her "reach" schools, but I'm sure she's going to get into one of them and maybe two. Why pay 50K for a so-called "elite" school, borrowing at least half of it, when we could get her through four years at Penn State-UP debt free? Is it really worth 100K in debt for her to go to an elite college instead of an outstanding flagship state U? And don't tell me Wall Street investment banks and consulting firms are biased toward the elite labeled schools. The last thing my D would want to be is a management consultant or work on Wall Street.</p>
<p>My daughter turned PSU down for a tiny private college because she didn’t want to be one of 40,000+ students, live in a tiny dorm room and deal with tons of students that like to party hardy. To each his own. Besides, Lehigh is ten minutes from our house ;). JK, that wasn’t one of her choices anyway.</p>
<p>Absolutely not. That much debt is an unconscionable burden on the future. Obtaining the UG degree debt free from Penn State is a no brainer. By saving the money and going to PSU, she could perhaps spend a smaller amount at a summer program at an “elite” or do an extra semester or year of study abroad. That kind of thing might be worth a modest amount of debt. But $100,000? No way.</p>
<p>D1 was accepted to Penn State -State College campus as an OOS applicant. She applied there based on its reputation for journalism. I think it was her first acceptance outside of our flagship state U, which she had no intention of attending unless she didn’t get accepted anywhere else. She ended up at Syracuse, where, with a very nice scholarship, only cost a bit more than our state U would have. Penn State did not offer much in the way of merit aid, and it would have been more expensive than Syracuse.</p>
<p>To answer your question directly, because they don’t have a good Classics program. Plus D wanted to be in a city and, like kathiep’s D, it was too big and not the right fit for her. </p>
<p>But if it does have the programs and atmosphere your D wants, getting through college debt-free is indeed a no-brainer!</p>
<p>yeah, if you like the school then go for it… i have been there quite a few times on weekends visiting friends and i found it to be the most annoying place on earth… drunks stumbling around everywhere at all hours being loud and this and that. i’m very glad i went to my small LAC with tuition even smaller then PSU’s… and didn’t have to deal with that.</p>
<p>@ OP, because “Harvard” or “Yale” will take you a lot further than “Penn State” in a lot of cases. That doesn’t mean that there’s nothing to be said for effort and perseverance, but sometimes you really need that big-name diploma to get your foot in the door at a ritzy law firm or Wall Street investment company.</p>
<p>Plus, I heartily agree with kathiep. If I went to Penn State, I would be a number, not a person.</p>
<p>And your statement about going $100k is laughably ridiculous. Ivy League schools (especially the Big 3, HYP) have some of the best FinAid programs in the world. We’re upper-middle class, and Princeton’s financial aid estimator told us to not expect to pay anything over $10 k. Everything else is covered by grants, not loans. Free money rocks.</p>
<p>Two Ds at Harvard and they each pay about what they would for room and board alone at an in-state school. For them, PSU would be much more expensive than some Ivies.</p>
<p>Some kids don’t want or won’t do best in such a large school. Many students get better aid at privates and can go there for less than a PSU would cost. Some kids are all about the prestige, and no matter what numbers/achievements you trot out for Penn State, it doesn’t have as much as HYPS. </p>
<p>My D will apply to our state flagship as well as some LACs, but ultimately is likely to choose the school that “feels” right at the time. There’s nothing wrong with Penn State or other state flagships, and they can provide a terrific education, but they’re not for everyone.</p>
<p><strong><em>And your statement about going $100k is laughably ridiculous. Ivy League schools (especially the Big 3, HYP) have some of the best FinAid programs in the world. We’re upper-middle class, and Princeton’s financial aid estimator told us to not expect to pay anything over $10 k. Everything else is covered by grants, not loans. Free money rocks.</em></strong></p>
<p>FWIW, my nephew went to Harvard (graduated a couple years ago). His parents are middle class with blue collar jobs and are not college educated. They don’t go without, but there are no frills. Nephew came out of Harvard with some debt, but more significantly, his parents are now struggling to pay parent loans because Harvard wouldn’t allow the student to borrow in excess of a certain amount but didn’t supply other aid sufficient to cover the full cost. Harvard apparently doesn’t have qualms about the parents going into debt, and my nephew couldn’t pull it off without the parent loans. My BIL is working 2 jobs to pay off those loans and will be for some time. For many families, those “best FinAid programs in the world” aren’t good enough. My younger nephew is now attending a state university, and it’s costing less than Harvard did.</p>
<p>That’s good to hear, because if what my nephew got was “good” financial aid, I was fearful to see what the norm was. I know we’re not going to qualify for anything when my D’s head off to college, but I was amazed at how much Harvard (at least in the past) expected middle class families to pay.</p>
<p>For Harvard, specifically, if you make under $60k now, it’s free. If you make under $180k, you will never be expected to pay more than 10% of your annual income. It goes down, percentage-wise, the lower you get, so if you make $100k, you’ll probably pay like 8% (8000).</p>
<p>No matter how many students are there, you only contact a given number in your daily life. Also, if you sit in the front row (or front few rows) it doesn’t matter if there are 30 people behind you or 300 people behind you. </p>
<p>Things can make it seem smaller, like the honors college, groups or clubs. I think most people become friends with people in their dorm area and others in their majors.</p>
<p>I agree that $50K per year is way too much of a debt burden for undergrad. We passed on that particular option in favor of a more affordable state U.</p>
Except that at a good LAC, that isn’t 30 people sitting behind you; it’s 15 people sitting around you. When you have small classes, professors can afford to conduct active seminars instead of passive lectures. Seminars (“discussion sections”) are also present at large universities, of course… with the TA. But if you personally learn best through lecture, and some people do, then there’s no downside.</p>
<p>And beware stats like number of Fulbright Scholars. What percentage of the student body is a Fulbright Scholar, and how does that compare to other schools?</p>
<p>That said, if you have to borrow 100k to pay for a top private, the school is not affordable. But wait for FA packages to come in before making that decision.</p>
<p>Yes, I will wait for financial aid packages to come in. Someone here mentioned something about getting into a Wall Street investment firm or ritzy law firm. LIke I said in my OP, the last place my D would want to work is on Wall Street or with an investment firm ANYWHERE. As for “ritzy law firms,” they don’t care where you went undergrad. It’s the law school you attend that matters. My D has no interest in the type of career that’s attractive to the yachting crowd. I do think big school vs. small school - the size issue - is a more legitimate reason for considering an alternative to PSU. But my D didn’t attend some small fancy prep school. Her high school has more students than every one of the Top 20 LACs. She’s expressed some concern about being at a college smaller than her high school. The disadvantage of small, of course, is that in a few weeks everybody knows your business because everybody knows you and vice versa. If it was me, I would hate a small school. I remember the first time I set foot on Michigan’s campus in Ann Arbor as a grad student. Wow. I realized what I missed at my small private undergrad university. Anyway, it’s not me this time around, it’s my D.</p>
<p>I guess a fancy school would be cool and all that, but I’m not seeing the real advantages of “elite” unless the cost is the same or damn close.</p>
<p>A few of notes from a PSU parent.
If the comparison is to Ivies, it’s probably safe to say that the honors college at PSU is in the mix.
And that adds some more pluses (although PSU is a fine school in its own right)
Smaller classes, priority registration, better dorms, more personalized advising, and a small scholarship.<br>
I think it makes a difference, especially in the first two years.<br>
That said, I agree with what other posters said about HYP. THey are all offering tremendous financial aid packages that may actually bring the cost below PSU.
The harder choices would be the lower Ivies like Cornell or Penn. They’re both big and not so great with merit or financial aid at certain income levels. So it’s hard to see them being worth 100k in debt.
And to Fendergirl. Yeah, I’ve also seen loud drunks roaming around on weekend…not a pretty site. But also not different that what we saw on the weekends at places like Duke or Dartmouth. We also know quite a few non-drinkers who found their niche without too much trouble. It’s just that the drunks tend to be more visible in State College than the students who are attending a jazz concert at Eisenhower Auditorium.<br>
Lastly, I went to a large public with no school spirit. The spirit at PSU is amazing. And it’s not all about football. THON is a central event - kids greek and non-greek involved in a year-long charity event for pediatric cancer. Very cool.
Plainsman, good luck to you and your d.</p>
True, but it really depends on what the subject matter is. If you are studying english literature or political science, maybe a small discussion group would be advantageous. Otoh, not much is to be gained by a seminar on calculus or general chemistry, where the large body of information to be learned is best done in a lecture format.</p>