Former Stanford Admissions Officer Answers Your Hardest Questions - ASK ME ANYTHING!

I got 8 Semester B’s in AP/Honors STEM subjects:
1 in Freshman second semester
1 in Sophomore first semester
4 in sophomore second semester (HUGE EXTENTUATING CIRCUMSTANCE)
2 in Junior year first semester

I’m taking 6 APs during my senior year and will end with straight A’s while also being dual-enrolled in 3 Humanities courses (A’s there, too).

I have a publication in the Concord Review, letters of Rec. saying I am the top in my two teachers’ 20 year careers, and have incredible leadership.

My rigor is:
11 APs
4 Honors
15 Dual-enrollment courses taken without being a part of the formal program in my high school (because it takes away from my on-campus leadership). People in my school or district usually taken 1 or 2. I have a 4.0 at the CC.

Hardest rigor at my HS for sure.

My testing is:
35 ACT
800 Math 2

AP Scores:
Language and Composition - 5
US History - 5
Calc AB - 4
World History - 4
Computer Science Principles - 4

Should I take the SAT II USH, World History, and Physics to boost my academic profile more?

What can I do to boost my chances at top schools? I’m so self-conscious about being bad at STEM but good at humanities.

  1. Stanford and other similar schools are need-blind. Yet the pdf of your Common Application indicates whether or not you've applied for financial aid. Is this information that Admissions Officers can see and do they ever extrapolate financial circumstances from school profiles, home address, parental occupations etc?
  2. Is there a definite advantage coming from a relatively underrepresented state (for example, Oregon or Washington compared to California or New York) in the Admissions process?
  3. Do letters of continued interest matter for deferred applicants? Or are they more a formality than anything else?
  4. How much do AP/IB and SAT Subject tests matter compared to the SAT/ACT?
  5. Does REA have a definite advantage compared to RD, similar to ED at other schools (though not as pronounced?)

Also, thank you for doing this AMA!

Hi Michael, Thank you for taking questions! Three questions: 1)I am wondering if legacy consideration happens and if so, is it only in ED? I realize this may be different at different schools. (Do you happen to know about Princeton or Columbia – through the grapevine?) 2) My DS’ school is phasing out AP’s. It does not offer many. He took 3 AP’s as a 10th grader (only one was an actual AP class; he studied on his own for the other two; he got all 5’s - US History, Computer Science and BC Calc) and he will take one as an 11th grader (AP Bio). There will be no AP’s senior year, only Honors classes. Will he be at a disadvantage for taking only 4 AP’s? 3) I have been told that it is not advised to take AP’s for subjects in which the student did not take the AP class. This does not make sense to me. Is it true and if so, please explain.

@spellrh37 No. I’m convinced students who don’t submit scores this year will not be disadvantaged. Why?

Because admission offices are filled with folks who really care about access to education and fairness. They are underdog champions. And they were already concerned that test scores disadvantaged students who couldn’t afford to take a test-prep class. Based on my time at Stanford, there’s no way they will hold it against a student who doesn’t submit scores this year.

Other commentators don’t see it my way. Jeff Selingo, for example, published a piece in the Washington Post on how he thinks admission offices will favor the wealthy by relying more heavily on top schools they know well. At least at schools like Stanford, I think that’s wrong. I’d be speculating on how these big publics will handle the situation. But they have the same admission officers: folks who care about access to education and fairness.

Top scores are clear indicators of intelligence and hard work. You can’t write-off a perfect score as test prep. And it wouldn’t be fair to disregard a student who worked hard to achieve those scores. So, yes, I think top scores will get mentioned when a student has them. But at top schools, remember that admission readers are used to seeing these scores–they’re par for the course. No one advocates for students to earn admission because of their numbers, even perfect scores. It’s your activities and writing that really wins over an admission officer and transforms them from judge to personal advocate.

–MCS

From your experience, why would people be deferred from Stanford in the early round? How could a deferred candidate claw their way to acceptance?

How do senior quarter grades weigh into the admissions process? If I sent them in and they communicated a continuous upwards swing, would that be helpful or not because they aren’t semester grades… yet

@Marzipane I get this question about undersubscribed or oversubscribed majors a lot. You should indicate the most specific major you can as long as you can back it up with an activity and writing. If that’s economics, no problem.

I never thought: “Well, this student wants to study econ, or bio, or computer science, and those are oversubscribed majors, so I’ll be harder on them.” Never. I was just reading for who was a compelling applicant. If that meant I found ten econ majors that I thought were compelling and my colleagues would vote on, so be it. Around 80% of students change majors in college. And Stanford encourages you to explore and asks you for up to three academic interests.

But it’s important to have writing and activities that support your major–especially if it’s a more specific major. For example, Jeff Selingo has a good WSJ article, “The Secrets of Elite College Admissions” from Aug. 28, 2020, where he talks about being in an Emory committee this spring: “But while the student listed neuroscience as a major, ‘there is no example of neuro in the file’ in terms of activities or in the essays, the admissions officer said. She suggested that they move the application to the wait list[.]”

So you can’t apply to some random, undersubscribed major like classics because you think it will stand out–unless you can make the case for classics with writing and activities that verify you’re for real.

Write about economics with command, intelligence, and texture; prove you know the field and really love it. And hopefully, you have activities related to economics that supports your writing. That’s an ideal way to stand out.

–MCS

How does ability to pay factor into acceptance decisions? For example, if I’m an OOS student applying to a state public, am historically borderline based on GPA with no test score submitted, however FAFSA indicates that I’d be a potential full-pay admit, am I at an advatange this cycle? And, will acceptance rates be more liberal this year with the pandemic uncertainties?

Along these lines, there have been posts on these forums about high schools “rationing” their more advanced or rigorous courses, in ways that seem “unfair” to those complaining about the “rationing” (e.g. where placement is seemingly allocated by parental political pull rather than student achievement in the prerequisite courses). How aware are admission readers on the possibility that an applicant was “rationed out” of a more advanced or rigorous course that they wanted and were capable of taking?

Another question along these lines: if a student was not placed in advanced math in middle school, so that they started with algebra 1 in 9th grade and reached precalculus in 12th grade, is it detrimental that the student did not reach calculus in high school?

Along the “rationing” question, there have also been posts on these forums complaining about “rationing” of letters of recommendation at some high schools. How aware are admission readers of this?

@SuperfrogFan
FERPA: I support any policy that gives people a window into the admissions process. The more transparency, the better.

Undecided: I get it. Of course, one point of college is to explore different academic fields and professional interests. At most schools, you don’t declare a major until junior year. You can, and likely will, change your mind about what you want to study or do when you’re in college—or 1, 2, or 10 years after graduation.

But tactically? I think it’s critical to decide–for now and subject to change–what you want to study. You’re applying to be a student at a university. The most compelling pitch you can make to a college? Telling them you know why you’re coming.

–MCS

Another question about recommendations:

How aware are admission readers of the difference in quality of the recommender affecting the letters of recommendation?

For example, a recommender at an elite prep school probably has lots of practice writing recommendations, and probably coaching from a dedicated college counseling / placement staff at the school, while one at a disadvantaged high school where hardly anyone even applies to a college that wants recommendations may be unlikely to have those advantages as a recommender.

Hey Mr. Michael! Thank you for doing this.

I just had a questions with early decisions and a bad grade. I have received all As and Bs throughout highschool, but during my senior year I have not been getting along with my math teacher and pretty much bombing/failing the subject. It is D/F level bad, but the rest of my grades are still As and Bs. I know I can get that grade up to at least a C by first semester, but I have already submitted my ED1 application to NYU. I am considering changing to ED2 so I have more time to get that grade up just in case NYU requests first quarter grades. Do you think this would be more beneficial, or just keep it as ED1 and hope that they do not request, or will that one bad grade not affect the application as much as I think?

@classicsmom

  1. Change of Focus: I don't see an issue. Your son's STEM activities are excellent. By getting into meditation and history, I think he's just adding dimension to his application. When he applies, it's best to indicate majors or academic interests supported by his activities and writing. So maybe he ends up applying as an engineering-philosophy student who wants to explore consciousness and AI. That's compelling.
  2. History Activities: Lots of ideas, but here's one: I'd devise my own independent study in a specific historical area of interest and ask my history teacher to supervise me. As a culminating project, I'd suggest writing a research paper for submission to a writing contest of prestigious undergraduate journal like the Concord Review. That showcases intellectual vitality, is a fantastic activity to put down, and likely leads to a stellar letter of recommendation about your son's initiative, maturity, and love of learning.

Does changing high schools affect how an application is reviewed? I attended 1 school for my freshman and sophmore year that doesn’t have the greatest reputation for rigor but I took all the honors courses I could. I started freshman year in Algebra 1, took geometry over the summer then took a pre-calc/algebra 2 course sophmore year. I also started taking french freshman year and skipped ahead to the third level at my school sophmore year. I then went abroad for a year in France at a very rigorous school, School Year Abroad (SYA) and got all A and A-. I am now at my local public school because it made sense to transfer because of COVID. I have taken 2 APs and am taking 3 this year and 6 Honors courses. I also have a 34 ACT. My GPA is also a bit messed up because each school calculates differently (my first school weighted 1 point for H/AP, my second school didn’t weight, and my current school uses UC guidelines), if I calculate my GPA with the 1 point bump for H/AP I have a 4.35, however on my transcript (UC scoring) it is a 4.2 Will the fact that I changed schools, don’t have many AP credits, and a messed up GPA hurt me in my application? How would an application that is atypical like mine normally be reviewed?

Thank you so much for doing this, this thread has been incredibly helpful!

@ClownCollege2

Extra Testing: For US and World History you already have the AP scores, I wouldn’t take more. But for the subjects you earned Bs in, an AP/SAT II/college course with a top score or grade would help. It sounds like your academic profile is plenty strong sans those Bs.

Boost Chances: You have stellar activities and support. I’d focus on your writing–make your essays sing. And you may be the rare person who should use an Additional Information essay to discuss this extenuating circumstance you mentioned sophomore year. (But be as concise as possible and write the piece with a no-excuses attitude.)

–MCS

I’m sure you get many applications from students with top grades and scores, compelling writing and great ECs — yet you determine they are not a good fit for Stanford. Please share details on the elusive “fit” factor. What are you looking for in applications, specifically, that would show a good fit? How do you think it differs from a good fit at another top school like UPenn?

@PikachuRocks15

  1. Financial Background: Admission officers will pick up on information that suggests you come from a low-income background. For example, your application shows you have a fee waiver, your parents' occupations, or you mention it in your writing. Admission officers are underdog champions and they pull for students who have excelled despite coming from low-income homes.

These schools are need-blind in this sense: If you ask for financial aid, that request isn’t held against you. They don’t factor your ability to pay for school into your admission decision. But there’s a big caveat: if you’re an international student, don’t ask for aid unless you’re exceptional and have an extremely compelling story.

  1. Geography: Check out post #18.
  2. Deferrals and Letters of Interest: Deferral usually means you were more than competitive but just missed the compelling standard. You’re right on the line. Here’s my best general advice: do something to improve your application and update your admission officer about it, but don’t overdo it.

If you get deferred in December, you should have new updates to provide your admission officer: activities, awards, grades, scores, something to say about a spring semester internship. But during Regular reading season (roughly December to March), your reader is fully engaged in evaluating applications. So I’d say one concise, good update email; maybe two if you really have something new and exceptional to report.

  1. AP scores/SAT II v SAT/ACT: In a typical year, your SAT or ACT matters much more than AP scores or SAT IIs. At many schools, the latter are optional.
  2. Early vs Regular: Stanford doesn't give you any advantage if you apply Early. But some schools care about demonstrated interest. And statistics counsel you to apply Early. For example, last year Harvard accepted about 14% students Early Action, but only 4% Regular. For Early Decision, Dartmouth took 23% compared to 6% and Wash U in St. Louis took 42% compared to 13%. But let’s add some nuance to those numbers.

First, when you apply early, you’re up against the stiffest competition. Because anyone applying early has their stuff together and they are happy with their application. So it’s harder to stand out. And the higher acceptance rates reflect a more talented pool.

Second, guess where new readers train? Early admission. You don’t really know what it takes for a student to earn admission until you’ve gone through committee in Early and see what an admitted student looks like. School like Stanford with single-digit acceptance rates train you to be exacting. So students who might get rejected in Early, could get accepted in Regular once admission officers get a feel for the pool.

Bottom line: If you have a goal school, you should apply to it Early, and Early Decision if possible. But only if your application is as strong as it can be.

If not, here’s what I would do: Apply Early Action to a target school. This way you may have an acceptance in hand at a solid school you’re happy with in early December—at least you know you’re in somewhere—and you may get a slight boost depending on the school.

Then, I’d spend now until January 1 making your application better. Because the Regular pool is watered down. So even though the statistics don’t bear it out, a compelling application is more likely to stand out in Regular.

–MCS

Will Stanford be considering freshman year high school grades this admissions cycle due to the test optional policy? There was always a rumor that Stanford didn’t consider them.
Also, I always considered the strongest legacy at Stanford to be the sibling legacy. My son just graduated from there last June and I can count on two hands, maybe more, of his classmates that had older or younger siblings there, too. So many more than a 4% admit rate would indicate! Asking for a selfish reason - his younger sister is applying this year.

Hey!
I am a CSE student at UC Davis. I have a 4.0 and am on the Table Tennis team of the university while being the Vice-President of the UC Davis Table Tennis Club.
I have also taken part in multiple research projects with collaborators from CMU and UPenn.
I wanted to transfer to Stanford because I would like to work for labs at Stanford given that several labs work in the same areas that interest me.
I know that transferring to Stanford is very difficult but given I would like to continue onto a PhD at Stanford I want to try to tranfer.
However, I am not particularly good at essay writing(I have published research papers in the past and am working on more but I don’t have a problem with that because I find technical writing more natural)

How should I convince admissions I am worth the shot and I will use the maximum of the opportunities that come with being a Stanford student? I understand that this is probably rather open-ended but how should I create charming essays which portray me as an ideal “fit”?

@davidsmoll

  1. Legacy: Yes, it’s a small factor in your favor, but not a major factor like academic ability, intellectual vitality, impact. No, it’s not restricted to Early. It’s considered in Regular as well. I’ve never heard of a school limiting it to Early. I’m not sure how much weight other schools give to legacy compared to Stanford.
  1. APs: No, admission officers evaluate rigor in the context of the student's school. For example, many top privates don't have APs--they believe all their classes are at a college level. Other schools don't have the resources to offer APs or restrict them because they think studying for all those exams is unhealthy and not the best way to learn. Admission readers don't hold it against you if that's the school you come from. But it's always helpful to show initiative and a desire to take more classes--so self-study like your son did is excellent.
  2. AP exams without AP classes: I've never heard that. I think it's great and shows initiative and competence.

–MCS